Playlists - yay or nay

mike65

Should daytime music radio be run largely on the basis of the playlist? Is it lazy programming or neccessary to keep a core demographic happy? Does stoping DJs from pleasing themsleves add or subtract? What effect does it have on new/local musicians trying to break onto national airwaves?

No, I don't know - that's why I'm asking

Mike.

Rowley Birkin QC

Nay x ∞ from me.

Spent most of the last two summers in a tractor and daytime radio play the same 10-15 songs for about 10 days then change to a new 10-15 songs. Absolutely headwrecking.

Slicklink

Think it would be commercial suicide otherwise, Mike!

When you build up listernship/brand ID using a tight (and mostly repetitive) playlist the whole idea is that people will subliminally tune back to hear their favourite songs.

Of course the trick is to know when to stop playing certain songs and when to reduce/increase the rotation of these songs.

DJ's play there own music ! You couldnt trust them anyhow.... oh and any well structured rotation is out the window then.

dulpit

There should be a mix i think... While some stations should go down the pure playlist route of playing the same pop songs on a loop (2fm, today fm in the afternoon, red fm & 96 fm in Cork) there should be at least 1 station out there that plays a decent mixture of everything... Irish radio is starved for it atm...

razorblunt

dulpit wrote: »

There should be a mix i think... While some stations should go down the pure playlist route of playing the same pop songs on a loop (2fm, today fm in the afternoon, red fm & 96 fm in Cork) there should be at least 1 station out there that plays a decent mixture of everything... Irish radio is starved for it atm...

In fairness to Today FM each presente does put a bit of their own influences into the music while obviously playing the required playlist songs.

I was working a shift job a few years back, 12 hours with the station of choice being Red FM, the first song after the hour was almost always guaranteed to be RHCP, Pink or Maroon 5 crazy!

Hissing Sideban

You really have to have some sort of playlist structure for consistency (which is what most people want). If not, then the sound of the station is dictated by the mood of the DJ, which will not necessarlily be in sync with the listeners.
There is a possible exheption to this, if the station can pay megabucks for a top name presenter (complete with producer) and has a contract so that he or she will stay the course.
If a DJ has quite a lot of 'say' in the musical content, th ewhole sound of th eprogramme changes if they are on hooliday, off sick or leave. Not what happens when Dave Fanning or Tom Dunne are away. Imageine thsi replicated throught the whole daytime.

What would (and did) happen if this was the norm is someone like Chris Cary would come along with a structured format and hoover up alll the listeners!

What IS required, however, is lots of thought put into this structure and rotation. There is possible some scope for allowing a little free choice on a couple of songs per hour, within a defined subgroup.

Wertz

Absolutely nothing against playlists and their usage....it's the limited scope of those playlists, their huge reliance on following chart trends, rather than trying to pre-empt or even influence them and the over playing sceanrio that slicklink mentioned that make a pigs ear out of it, in the Irish radio world.
Why not stick some more obscure stuff (either new or a bit older) on daytime playlists?
Sticking with this tried and trusted BS of doing the top 20 plus the 10 biggest hits from the last 6 months plus a handful of new releases from established artists is leading to homogenous stations that all just end up vying for the same listenership.
A DJ (or team of them) should have some sort of input into what they want to see included on that week's playlist, rather than having it dictated by production/office staff and more importantly by PR people from record companies.

I hate to sound like a broken record (puntastic) but R1's playlist is always under review and, for it's chosen demographic, really manages to keep it fresh but not simply "plug and play" as regards input from vested interests who just want to sell records...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/playlist/

I like that DJs can choose their favourite track from any genre and other shows have to play that....it makes for more broad musical output and get's airtime for music that may not otherwise see daytime play...

Manimal

BBC Radio One do have the advantage of being part of the largest broadcast organisation on the planet. They are entirely funded by licence fee revenue and don't need to appeal to ad agencies. They also have the power to have the biggest bands come play for them on a daily basis. Theres no Irish radio station that has the equivalent power.

brettmirl

Manimal wrote: »

BBC Radio One do have the advantage of being part of the largest broadcast organisation on the planet. They are entirely funded by licence fee revenue and don't need to appeal to ad agencies. They also have the power to have the biggest bands come play for them on a daily basis. Theres no Irish radio station that has the equivalent power.

Agreed. Such is the power of BBC Radio 1 and their playlist, that a lot of record companies will delay releasing a song until they can be sure it will be added to that playlist.

A lot of the UK media outlets will wait until the Radio 1 playlist is released on a Wednesday evening before deciding what goes on theirs.

Wertz

Manimal wrote: »

BBC Radio One do have the advantage of being part of the largest broadcast organisation on the planet. They are entirely funded by licence fee revenue and don't need to appeal to ad agencies. They also have the power to have the biggest bands come play for them on a daily basis. Theres no Irish radio station that has the equivalent power.

Certainly, I won't pretend for a minute that commercial stations here can compete at that level...many's a track/band/artist that has debuted on R1 ends up on the playlists here a few weeks/months later, but it's more the diversity of genres even during daytime that seems to lack...maybe it's different tastes here but we seem to end up very middle of the road safe stuff....it's like stations are afraid to alienate listeners by playing something a bit off centre and varying their output a little, opting for the cut&paste playlists that are the basis for this thread...
It all depends on how much a particular show divides up it's time between a set list and what the DJ wants to stick on...but I find with few exceptions during daytime, Irish popular music radio whether it be local or national, go with the majority of that time, from a playlist, preferring only to allow a DJ to perhaps play them in their chosen order and add in their own few.

Hissing Sideban

It can be done - a loose, but nevertheless planned structure with keen programmers and DJ's. Trouble is it takes a lot of effort and resources. It's easier (in the short term at least) to go the trie and trusted route. Many stations actually entrust the day to day loading of Selector (or whatever)playlist to either a junior staff member, who often doesn't relly understand the way the software makes decisions.

Here's a clip of how radio used to be, and the type of radio that inspired me to get into this business
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCESH9eXULg

also see

http://www.youtube.com/user/justforthebox

MarkN

Wertz wrote: »

rather than having it dictated by production/office staff and more importantly by PR people from record companies.

...

The only person that decides playlists are Music Directors and PDs.

Record companies are vital as the middle man between the artist and radio station, you have a slightly incorrect view of how it works in my opinion.

On your other point about music eras, unfamiliar music on commercial radio doesn't work, simple as really. You don't have to simply play music from the last 6 months however, I think you have exaggerated that bit unless you are talking about the likes of Spin who are only catering for their audience by the amount of new music they play compared to old.

Fuzzy Clam

To hark back to simpler times like Nova (which we've talking about so much), the playlist was easy to follow and allowed the jock a degree of choice. The carts were marked with red, yellow and blue stickers of which there were 20 or 30 of each. The play clock dictated the order these were to be played and allowed for a couple of songs each hour that were picked by the dj. These were usually from another cart rack or the record liberary.The upshot of this was while it was the same 60 or 90 songs in the playlist,the order they were played was not predictable and you could still hear the odd Nova gem. How you employ this type of playlisting with Selector or whatever I dont know.

MarkN

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

To hark back to simpler times like Nova (which we've talking about so much), the playlist was easy to follow and allowed the jock a degree of choice. The carts were marked with red, yellow and blue stickers of which there were 20 or 30 of each. The play clock dictated the order these were to be played and allowed for a couple of songs each hour that were picked by the dj. These were usually from another cart rack or the record liberary.The upshot of this was while it was the same 60 or 90 songs in the playlist,the order they were played was not predictable and you could still hear the odd Nova gem. How you employ this type of playlisting with Selector or whatever I dont know.

RCS basically is a cart system - in a computer. The one thing it doesn't do compared to your post is that it rotates those "gems" better than any human. It's still not perfect and it will always require a human (G Selector is the new Daddy and that doesn't!) but Selector normal version just goes on the whole cart system that song gets played, song goes to the back of the queue again. "Jack" songs have been employed by many stations nowadays to give you that "gem" thing - aside from the gold category.

mike65

I'm with Dr Johnny Fever in WKRP in Cincinatti who decides to leave, he gets a deal with a new station in town. He meets the programming director who pulls back a curtain to reveal the Billion Dollar Brian that decides what gets played, he gets up and walks!

Mike.

Fuzzy Clam

Ok,I'm with you on that MarkN.
You used the word "rotates". Thats the part of playlisting that pees a lot of ppl off,I think. Its one thing knowing what type of music to expect on a station but when you're able to predict which song is on next.........

The same applies to throwing a few "oldies" into the playlist. You hear a gem you haven't heard in years and then you hear it like nearly every day. At least when the dj has some flexability and not a computer, this is less likely to happen.(and yes, I do know of a jock who is allowed to choose some of his music and he seems to pick the same songs every time).

Hissing Sideban

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

.... How you employ this type of playlisting with Selector or whatever I dont know.

It can be done, but requires quite a bit of effort to avoid predictability. Subtle changes to the rules that Selecter uses has quite an effect on rotation. If there are too many 'hard and fast' rules, what tends to happen is the songs it finds easier to schedule end up being played too often and/or in a predictable manner. It certainly requires a lot more study, experimentaion and work than I have seen being applied at many stations to get the best from it. Often, the operator ends up habving to manually scheduling half the day as the rules are set up arseways!

MarkN

The key to the rules is to use as few of them as you really need to.

The rotation of the songs is down to how many songs you are using in a category and how much effort the man/woman at the keyboard wants to put into it.

brettmirl

MarkN wrote: »

The key to the rules is to use as few of them as you really need to.

The rotation of the songs is down to how many songs you are using in a category and how much effort the man/woman at the keyboard wants to put into it.

Very true MarkN. But the problem is that a lot of stations don't pay for the Programme or Music Directors to be properly trained in on the RCS products.

What often happens, is the Selector databases are set up day one, and then the rules are never changed, despite a lot of changes in music policy or ways the categories are laid out.

I know at one local station they use Selector, but becuase it was never set up right, when they actually schedule, they then unschedule every song selector has put on the playlist and manually make up the log.

Playlist are good and do stop presenters over playing their favourites. They define the sound of a station BUT they only work if they are managed well and constantly monitored and refreshed.

MarkN

mick_irl wrote: »

Very true MarkN. But the problem is that a lot of stations don't pay for the Programme or Music Directors to be properly trained in on the RCS products.

What often happens, is the Selector databases are set up day one, and then the rules are never changed, despite a lot of changes in music policy or ways the categories are laid out.

I know at one local station they use Selector, but becuase it was never set up right, when they actually schedule, they then unschedule every song selector has put on the playlist and manually make up the log.

Playlist are good and do stop presenters over playing their favourites. They define the sound of a station BUT they only work if they are managed well and constantly monitored and refreshed.

100%!

You wouldn't run a car for 10 years without getting it serviced. Selector is your car engine on a playlisted radio station.

I suppose budgets come into it but I'm lucky enough to have Selector pros at my disposal to do all the tweaking for me It's nice to take on board what they say and play around with it yourself though.

I would love to go to the US to do one of their in house courses on it.

Wertz

MarkN wrote: »

The only person that decides playlists are Music Directors and PDs.

So not people you would asociate with actually knowing a damn about music then...

MarkN wrote: »

Record companies are vital as the middle man between the artist and radio station, you have a slightly incorrect view of how it works in my opinion.

I have a jilted view of how it works because I happen to favour one station above the rest and that's how they appear to do it....what happened to DJs/presenters picking up their own stuff in a record shop or these days on the likes of myspace or whatever?
Why rely on being spoonfed what the record company wants to shift a heap of that week? Why let the charts dictate what you play, when in fact you can just as much influence what gets in the charts?

MarkN wrote: »

On your other point about music eras, unfamiliar music on commercial radio doesn't work, simple as really. You don't have to simply play music from the last 6 months however, I think you have exaggerated that bit unless you are talking about the likes of Spin who are only catering for their audience by the amount of new music they play compared to old.

Music eras?
I haven't exaggerated anything:

Me wrote:

Sticking with this tried and trusted BS of doing the top 20, plus the 10 biggest hits from the last 6 months, plus a handful of new releases from established artists...

I never mentioned playing music only from the last 6 months....what I said was a criticism of the Irish popular channels' playlists in general, where many of them will leave old popular stuf from the last 6 months (or a year or more in some cases) in their current playlists (or at least that's how it appears), usually favouring those that had most chart success.

As regards unfamiliar music on commercial radio...well that's like the old bouncers line; "Sorry guys regulars only"...how does music become familiar if it doesn't get airplay? Every tune that's ever been played had to debut at some point...so is it a case of waiting until the stuff is getting airplay on MTV or whatever, or until it's actually charted that it becomes "familiar"?
I just don't understand the closed-minded approach to playing stuff other than chart and safe genres during daytime. I'm not suggesting death metal and drillcore at 11am, I'm suggesting a bit more balanced output of genres intermixed with the familiar stuff...if Irish audiences are so fickle that they'll turn the dial just because there's something new or different playing then I weep for our future...
In most if not all cases these channels aim at the 15-34 market; the very people who want something a wee bit different once in a while, not the groundhog day crapola that emanates from the dial currently...



I don't think I'm on the same page as some people in this thread...the way I understand a "playlist" is as a list of the selection of X number of tracks that a station wishes to play from that day/week.
From what I'm reading in this thread, people are taking it as the automated playlist generation software used by commerical radio stations in place of actually hiring decent DJs who IMHO could do the job much better and with a bit more soul that this music by numbers trash that gets churned out.
As much as I love technology and automation there are some things that should have a majority of human input and control...the playing of records/CDs/music files is one of those things...

MarkN

Wertz with all due respect if you're never heard of a music era in terms of radio programming then your understanding of programming a radio station has to be quite limited.

If Nova were on air today, I would be fairly certain they'd be using RCS too. It's a tool that replaced a DJ using a card rotation system and that's it. It has a lot more bells and whistles but in theory, it's the same thing.

Record companies give radio stations new music. Music that you can't get anywhere else yet - that's the point of them. They don't tell me what to play, they bring their music to the table and programmers decide what suits their station. Where else do you want new music to come from??

Wertz wrote: »

So not people you would asociate with actually knowing a damn about music then...
...

I think tarring every PD and Music Director in the country with that attitude is pretty stupid.

Like it or lump it, this is the world of commercial radio - if your ideals of running a station were going to work I can ASSURE you, every station in the world would be following suit.

grumpytrousers

Wertz - i want to agree with you on the idea that radio stations should play a bit more stuff that could be classified as 'Off the beaten track' and, sure, not exactly drillcore at 11am, but it'd be nice to hear something by The Stranglers that wasn't 'Golden Brown'. I'm with you!

However, the commercial reality, sickening as it might be, is precisely that - a Commercial reality. And here's the thing, (he said, getting ready for a sacrifice at the alter of political correctness)..whilst you state that most of these stations target 15-34 year olds, during the day, they realse that they're not getting as many of the high demographic ABC1s as the advertisers want. They tune in during the morning show and the drivetime show, as they drive to/from their white collar jobs.

Those folks are more likely to want to hear something a little more progressive. But people during the day - from ten until four - i'd be most surprised if there was much demand among people who just have the radio on in the shop or the hairdressers to hear that much that differs to what the commercial stations play already.

you say you weep for the future...i'd get out the kleenex mate. In ten years time, it's gonna be WALL TO WALL fcuking sensitive singer songwriters...twats with beards and guitars...

Wertz

MarkN wrote: »

Wertz with all due respect if you're never heard of a music era in terms of radio programming then your understanding of programming a radio station has to be quite limited.

It is quite limited and I'm not really due any respect. I'm a listener, not someone in or even near the industry, nor do I hold any desire to be. I DJ a bit on a laptop and mixer, at house parties or for my own amusement...that's where any relevant experience ends....but my ears are tuned to good radio output and for the most part they don't hear it on Irish radio waves, and certainly not during daytime.
As someone who works in the area you know what "music era" is...I thought it was a typo tbh...google doesn't help, so perhaps you could spell it out for the non-radio people on here, of whom there are quite a few.

MarkN wrote: »

If Nova were on air today, I would be fairly certain they'd be using RCS too. It's a tool that replaced a DJ using a card rotation system and that's it. It has a lot more bells and whistles but in theory, it's the same thing.

Obviously stations need to move with the times...the use of technology notwithstanding, everything but the musical output and regressive attitude to anything other than mainstream music has moved with the times.

MarkN wrote: »

Record companies give radio stations new music. Music that you can't get anywhere else yet - that's the point of them. They don't tell me what to play, they bring their music to the table and programmers decide what suits their station. Where else do you want new music to come from??

The artists themselves? When was the last time any young up and coming Irish artist was "broken" on commercial daytime radio? Irish artists and new artists in general aren't welcomed on the Irish airwaves...not unless they've broken themselves, through gigging. The only time new artists seem to get airtime is when their last song featured in a TV ad campaign or something.
In this modern age, the tools are there for quality home production/recording, the internet is the perfect distribution tool....record companies serve a purpose but they aren't the only avenue....that radio stations would limit themselves solely to this avenue for sourcing 100% of their music is worrying IMO...it displays a blinkered outlook on what music is...

MarkN wrote: »

I think tarring every PD and Music Director in the country with that attitude is pretty stupid.

You're probably right...it was a low blow, but I'd still contest that people in these management/production positions and roles, for a lot of the time, would be a good bit above the age of their respective station's listenership's average age....how can you realistically have people in their late 30s, early 40's (what I would consider the age of people who have worked their way up to that stage of their careers) deciding on what's best for the people listening to those stations? Some input from the target demographic (and I don't mean through chart sales, I mean direct input) would go a long way towards expanding musical policy and output.

MarkN wrote: »

Like it or lump it, this is the world of commercial radio - if your ideals of running a station were going to work I can ASSURE you, every station in the world would be following suit.

You're right, and I'm not naive enough to think that the world is perfect and that everything should just happen the way I think it should. Irish commercial radio is hateful in that regard, but we're stuck with it (like everything else in this country it is entrenched and unable to really change).
But my idea does work on a limited basis...because R1 is funded by license payers not advertising revenue and corporate sponsorship, and has a mandate to cater for diverse musical taste, and not as a promotional tool populated by white noise, it would seem it only works when you subtract the "commercial" bit...

grumpytrousers wrote: »

Wertz - i want to agree with you on the idea that radio stations should play a bit more stuff that could be classified as 'Off the beaten track' and, sure, not exactly drillcore at 11am, but it'd be nice to hear something by The Stranglers that wasn't 'Golden Brown'. I'm with you!

However, the commercial reality, sickening as it might be, is precisely that - a Commercial reality. And here's the thing, (he said, getting ready for a sacrifice at the alter of political correctness)..whilst you state that most of these stations target 15-34 year olds, during the day, they realse that they're not getting as many of the high demographic ABC1s as the advertisers want. They tune in during the morning show and the drivetime show, as they drive to/from their white collar jobs.

Those folks are more likely to want to hear something a little more progressive. But people during the day - from ten until four - i'd be most surprised if there was much demand among people who just have the radio on in the shop or the hairdressers to hear that much that differs to what the commercial stations play already.

you say you weep for the future...i'd get out the kleenex mate. In ten years time, it's gonna be WALL TO WALL fcuking sensitive singer songwriters...twats with beards and guitars...

Those are some excellent points, and before anyone calls me out on it, I realise we are a small country and have a limited number of listeners, that it's not really fair to compare us with the UK in that regard, and that the reality for commercial radio that needs revenue from adverts, is that they need to broaden appeal to the everyman.
Expalin to me though, why we have any number of clone FMs, especially in the crowded Dublin market, some in fact owned by the same people! That just doesn't make any sense. Why award broadcasting licenses to another commercial station who states as it's intent is to play the same sh*te as everyone else?
Aditionally why doesn't our glorious national broadcaster decide to rise above the dross and target the disenfanchised listeners out there, instead of throwing it's lot in with the rest and conforming to the "norm"(and using that as a marketing campaign lol)...again, obviously it's because 2FM is a commerical entity. I think it's a bloody shame that that station, a so-called youth station, has grown as jaded and middle aged as the people who are running it.

As regards the point about the 10-4 crowd (of whom I'm a captive member, hence my strong feelings on the subject), I agree that for a lot of them this output is just chewing gum for the ears....and that's why with some thought and effort some stations could branch out and stick in the odd bit of difference in their music, instead of the grey goo that they're unwittingly stuck with.
Have to agree about your predictions for next decade (shudder)....I have nothing against the odd sensitive singer and their acoustic guitar...but spare a thought for the guy that wants to rap a bit over a drum loop, or explode into a breakbeat from a breakdown, or push the boundaries of noise pollution with only a distortion pedal, some strings and a scream.
Musical diversity should be the aim, not something to run away from, for fear that it might loose you listners....I don't think Irish radio staff give their listnership enough credit...

brettmirl

OK, there's a number of issues here.

Radio stations in this country are commercial entities. Even the RTE ones! They have to make money to survive and for their shareholders.

When radio stations were first licensed in this country, things were a bit different. The local stations around, for the most part, were owned by local interests. You often had groups as diverse as Co-Ops, local business leaders, to the church involved in getting local stations off the ground and running them.

At that time, there was a lot more choice on the air. There tended to be a lot more "specialist" shows on during the day. A lot of these stations found the going financially tough. Some didn't make it. Some didn't even get on air.

As Ireland changed over the last decade, with the Celtic Tiger and all that went with it, fortunes changed for local radio stations. They went from struggling to make ends meet, to turning into profitable companies. With the changes in the market over the last 5 years or so, a lot of the stations in this country are now part of groups - Communicorp, UTV, etc.

Stations in this country live and die by the JNLR (listenership figures released 4 times a year).

This is where playlists come in. Playlists are a way of giving the punter listening what they want to hear. In the bigger markets, there is usually a lot of research done. Be that auditorium, quanatitive, focus group...it's all designed to find out what the "core market" of a particular station likes to hear. The research figures are crunched (usually by an overpaid outside consultant) and what comes back is what music should be played, what are the best competitions to run, etc.

Management pump money into research/consultants to get better JNLR figures and in turn get higher profits.

There was one station I worked for, and in the on-air studio, the MD had a sign up that read as follows:

The Three Commandments

1. Thou shalt not cut songs short
2. Thou shalt not talk over songs
3. Thou shalt not deviate from the playlist

In that station, if he caught you changing the playlist, you were fired. That's how important the MD felt it was to play only music that had been researched.
(answers on the back of a postcard if anyone can name the station and/or MD)

Another issue about diversity has to fall back to the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI). Like a lot of 'authorities' or watch dogs in this country, they have no teeth when it comes to enforcement.

They way they dish out licences here is like a beauty contest. Which application looks prettiest...ticks the boxes for promises on Irish language programming, supporting Irish music, giving a voice to the alientated, promising gender balances on the board, etc. Don't get me started on the news/current affairs and the Irish music quotas!

The reality of it is that what is promised on the license application and what actually comes out through the speakers are two totally different things.

If they can't police this, what should happen is a free-for-all. Instead of the BCI licensing on content, let the market decide for itself what will work and what won't. Just advertise the frequencies available and once you can show you have the money to run a radio staion, off you go. Be interesting to see what that would do for diversity of listening!

One of the issues facing radio is that people are listening less and less to radio. A fact showing in recent JNLRs that the % of people listening to "Any Radio" is (slowly) in decline. People now listen to iPods instead of a Walkman. Cars now come with connections for MP3 players.

People can now get almost instant access to the songs they want on the net.
God be with the days when you had to tape the songs you liked off the radio if you wanted to hear them again! It will be a challenge for radio in this country to come up with ways to keep people tuning in and to bring back people who have drifted away.

All-in-all, playlists are here to stay for now. They make commercial sense and knowing the people that run a lot of the stations in this country, they are not going to be going out on a limb to try something different anytime soon.

MarkN

Wertz wrote: »

The artists themselves? When was the last time any young up and coming Irish artist was "broken" on commercial daytime radio?

The Coronas.

Wertz wrote: »

how can you realistically have people in their late 30s, early 40's (what I would consider the age of people who have worked their way up to that stage of their careers) deciding on what's best for the people listening to those stations? Some input from the target demographic
...

I'm 26 and a Music Director, I first got the job at 24. Our middle target market is 25 years of age. 98FM's Music Director is 28, Spin's is 27 ish, Beat's is roughly 27/28..You'll find it very hard to find someone who programmes a station that is not in touch with their audience and music.

By the way a music era is more for BCI requirements, most stations would have four eras for music ie. genres of music they require you to broadcast as per the programme policy in the licence.

Wertz

MarkN wrote: »

The Coronas.

Never heard of them lol, but I've seen the thread in Music forum about them so point taken. They'd be more the exception than the norm though, yes?

MarkN wrote: »

I'm 26 and a Music Director, I first got the job at 24. Our middle target market is 25 years of age. 98FM's Music Director is 28, Spin's is 27 ish, Beat's is roughly 27/28..You'll find it very hard to find someone who programmes a station that is not in touch with their audience and music.

So I'm way off the mark there too...I'm sorry to say that with the exception of Spin (and while Spin are youthful, their tight focus on rap/R'nB and their repetitive nature aren't something that would appeal to me personally), the musical policies on the rest of the stations you mention come across as being chosen by middle aged staff who aren't really interested. But having read mick_irl's excellent post, I do realise that many of the staff are operating in a confined environment and have to work with what they're given, within certain constraints. That's a real shame.

MarkN wrote: »

By the way a music era is more for BCI requirements, most stations would have four eras for music ie. genres of music they require you to broadcast as per the programme policy in the licence.

Every day's a school day...
Four genres of music? *shakes head sadly*

mick_irl's take on the BCI and licensing requirements saddens me...just another Irish regulatory body that can't or won't really regulate anything at all, it would seem.

I'm just glad I've always had the overspill from UK transmitters to feed my hunger for new music over the years, because it just doesn't seem that Irish stations are interested in pushing boundaries or making the effort to educate their audience. I feel that without having heard the more diverse stuff on offer, I could have ended up actually liking the output from Irish commercial radio

Mick_irl: great post, very informative and frankly frightening. JNLR? Outside consultants? 3 commandments? FFS just play some god damn new music!

brettmirl

Wertz wrote: »

Never heard of them lol, but I've seen the thread in Music forum about them so point taken. They'd be more the exception than the norm though, yes?

Yes. Unless you count Ritchie Kavanagh as music :pac:

This is yet another problem. The BCI back in the day, under the chairmanship of Niall Stokes (it was known as the IRTC then) introduced a rule forcing radio stations to play 30% Irish music as part of their overall content. The idea was to get up and coming Irish music on the wireless.

What happened was we got Van Morrison's "Brown Eyed Girl" and the entire Corrs back catalogue non-stop. It didn't do what it was supposed to. I personally think if the BCI took a step back, and had let it develop naturally, we probably would have more new Irish music on air. Instead Programme and Music controllers are playing U2, Thin Lizzy as nauseaum in order to fulfill the 30% rule.

It's also a rule the BCI do enforce. I think they've now changed the 30% to prime time hours (7am-7pm) to stop the token Irish music shows at the weekends or late at night.

Wertz wrote: »

Every day's a school day...
Four genres of music? *shakes head sadly*

mick_irl's take on the BCI and licensing requirements saddens me...just another Irish regulatory body that can't or won't really regulate anything at all, it would seem.

I'm just glad I've always had the overspill from UK transmitters to feed my hunger for new music over the years, because it just doesn't seem that Irish stations are interested in pushing boundaries or making the effort to educate their audience. I feel that without having heard the more diverse stuff on offer, I could have ended up actually liking the output from Irish commercial radio

Mick_irl: great post, very informative and frankly frightening. JNLR? Outside consultants? 3 commandments? FFS just play some god damn new music!

The BCI seem to like making up rules. They tend to harp on about certain things for a while before getting bored and making up a new rule to regulate...
Bi-lingual programmes, female representation on boards of management, 30% Irish music, women on air, news/current affairs quotas, etc.

The eras of music one is a relatively new one. When a lot of the stations re-signed their license contracts, this one was put in.
Stations had to say how much music they would play from a certain era in time. Off the top of my head, it was something like:
0-3 months ago
3month - 2 years ago
2 years - 10 years ago
Over 10 years ago

So each station had to state how much music per 24 hour period would come from those eras.

The BCI monitor stations by asking for tapes or files of recordings from random days (usually once every two months or so). From those recordings they check the Irish music content, how much news/current affairs and if the percentages of music eras is right, amongst other things.

The BCI is about to merge with the RTE Authority and the Broadcasting Complaints Commission to form the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI)...so we will have to wait and see if they have more teeth or are more progressive.

More info on that here - http://www.dcmnr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Broadcasting+Bill/