Boiler

whitelightrider

Right folks,

Im looking at going with either oil or gas to heat a new build in Galway. Was originally going with gas but with the 20% increase they are looking for I might just run with oil. Could anyone recommend an oil boler for a 2300 sq ft house with ufh downstairs and rads upstairs?

anonimouse

If you're trying to anticipate increases in fuel prices why don't you look into alternative fuels that are free? Have you thought of installing geothermal heating? The initial cost would be recouped in no time if you didn't have heating bills.

www.geotherm.ie this is an example of what I mean.

sydthebeat

whitelightrider wrote: »

Right folks,

Im looking at going with either oil or gas to heat a new build in Galway. Was originally going with gas but with the 20% increase they are looking for I might just run with oil. Could anyone recommend an oil boler for a 2300 sq ft house with ufh downstairs and rads upstairs?

That would make for a very inefficient system.

whitelightrider

anonimouse wrote: »

If you're trying to anticipate increases in fuel prices why don't you look into alternative fuels that are free? Have you thought of installing geothermal heating? The initial cost would be recouped in no time if you didn't have heating bills.

www.geotherm.ie this is an example of what I mean.

That site seems to be down.
We simply dont have the money at the minute to pay for the geothermal. We did look into it. For now we're looking at either gas or oil with the option down the line to change to geothermal, if it drops in price.

whitelightrider

sydthebeat wrote: »

That would make for a very inefficient system.

How dya mean Syd?

sydthebeat

Underfloor heating works best at lower temperatures than rads... UFH approx 35 deg, whereas rads at 55-60 deg.

Oil burners at higher temps 60-75 deg approx, therefore suitable for the rad system, but if using with UFH then the system needs to be mixed with cold water before entering the UFH system.......

Therefore you are burning oil to heat water, that needs to be cooled before entering your heating system...... very inefficient.

Oil and rads are good for quick responsive, short sharp bursts....
UFH suit more renewable heating systems such as geothermal, wood pellet and solar... and is used for a more constant uniform heat... thu sisnt very responsive (depending on your construction spec).

whitelightrider

sydthebeat wrote: »

Underfloor heating works best at lower temperatures than rads... UFH approx 35 deg, whereas rads at 55-60 deg.

Oil burners at higher temps 60-75 deg approx, therefore suitable for the rad system, but if using with UFH then the system needs to be mixed with cold water before entering the UFH system.......

Therefore you are burning oil to heat water, that needs to be cooled before entering your heating system...... very inefficient.

Oil and rads are good for quick responsive, short sharp bursts....
UFH suit more renewable heating systems such as geothermal, wood pellet and solar... and is used for a more constant uniform heat... thu sisnt very responsive (depending on your construction spec).

I understand. But its what we've designed into the house as herself has it in her home house. She wants the UFH for the living space downstairs. The only reason we are going with Rads upstairs is that they give a quick burst and speedy response when needed.

NickTellis

We're in a similar situation as above in that we're planning on using a combination of rads upstairs and downstairs along with underfloor heating in a new 50 square meter ground floor extension. As above geothermal is simply too pricey so we will (hopefully) be upgrading to a wood pellet boiler in conjunction with a buffer tank to run the rads and "help" with the underfloor heating. Whitelightrider, have you considered a wood pellet boiler? Anyone care to comment on using a buffer tank in conjunction with such a boiler for 1 underfloor heating zone?

sinnerboy

whitelightrider wrote: »

Right folks,

Im looking at going with either oil or gas to heat a new build in Galway. Was originally going with gas but with the 20% increase they are looking for I might just run with oil. Could anyone recommend an oil boler for a 2300 sq ft house with ufh downstairs and rads upstairs?

choose from here

http://www.sei.ie/app_harp_boilers.asp?ID=3

if you can't afford solar panels now - fit a cylinder to allow future installation - and first fix pipework now up to panel location

we can all expect the fossil fuels to yo yo ( upwards only ) from now on . So - in 6 months time oil may seem less attractive than gas .....

Invest in an air tightness test ( €600-800 ) and seal to all leaks it identifies ( €200 -400 ) . Big cost / benefit return

gummibear

Hhey guys,
been pondering this for a while too. About to break ground in next few weeks for 2700sq. ft. dormer with UFH downstairs and rads upstairs. will only need to use rads on rare occassions hopefully so thinking of going LPG with condensing boiler. Geothermal seems great in principle but the high initial cost and the sheer lack of feedback on long-term success with the system are turning me off. Plus the cost of electricity looks set to rise for years to come so can't agree with the cheap/free energy source.

whitelightrider

gummibear wrote: »

Hhey guys,
been pondering this for a while too. About to break ground in next few weeks for 2700sq. ft. dormer with UFH downstairs and rads upstairs. will only need to use rads on rare occassions hopefully so thinking of going LPG with condensing boiler. Geothermal seems great in principle but the high initial cost and the sheer lack of feedback on long-term success with the system are turning me off. Plus the cost of electricity looks set to rise for years to come so can't agree with the cheap/free energy source.

Hi there. Have you looked at who to get the LPG or the boiler from?

gummibear

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi there. Have you looked at who to get the LPG or the boiler from?

So far just been in touch with Calor. They charge roughly E250 for installing tank and E108 annual standing charge for "renting tank" etc. LPG costing roughly 78c per litre inc. VAT at the mo. We putting in Gas hob and possibly gas fire too. They have a scheme at the moment where you get up to E1000 back for connecting different gas appliances. E500 for h-eff boiler, E50 per fireplace, E150 each for hob, oven etc...
Was considering sourcing tank seperately and then should be able to buy the gas on open market but at the moment it doesn't look like there is much doff in price of suppliers. not much competition there...

Anyone got conclusive answers as to which is more efficient if any between oil and gas for UFH?

whitelightrider

gummibear wrote: »

So far just been in touch with Calor. They charge roughly E250 for installing tank and E108 annual standing charge for "renting tank" etc. LPG costing roughly 78c per litre inc. VAT at the mo. We putting in Gas hob and possibly gas fire too. They have a scheme at the moment where you get up to E1000 back for connecting different gas appliances. E500 for h-eff boiler, E50 per fireplace, E150 each for hob, oven etc...
Was considering sourcing tank seperately and then should be able to buy the gas on open market but at the moment it doesn't look like there is much doff in price of suppliers. not much competition there...

Anyone got conclusive answers as to which is more efficient if any between oil and gas for UFH?

Cheers gummibear. Might get in touch with Calor. We're putting in a gas hob as well but thats about it.

Going on what Ive read LPG is better for UFH as oil burns at a much higher temperature than LPG so would need to be mixed with cold water before being used for UFH.

gummibear

Yep thats what I have been reading too. LPG slightly more expensive than oil at the mo but as already mentioned they are going to be yo-yoing around each other from now on. Anyone else got any opinions on this? Oil or gas????:eek:

Sparky78

gummibear wrote: »

Yep thats what I have been reading too. LPG slightly more expensive than oil at the mo but as already mentioned they are going to be yo-yoing around each other from now on. Anyone else got any opinions on this? Oil or gas????:eek:

I'm sure i read somewhere that lpg was better for underfloor heating because it could burn at a low flame as well as a high flame to keep the under floor ticking over where the oil always has to burn on high flame. This could be wrong as its just from memory.

bakerbhoy

sydthebeat wrote: »

Underfloor heating works best at lower temperatures than rads... UFH approx 35 deg, whereas rads at 55-60 deg.

Oil burners at higher temps 60-75 deg approx, therefore suitable for the rad system, but if using with UFH then the system needs to be mixed with cold water before entering the UFH system.......

Therefore you are burning oil to heat water, that needs to be cooled before entering your heating system...... very inefficient.

Oil and rads are good for quick responsive, short sharp bursts....
UFH suit more renewable heating systems such as geothermal, wood pellet and solar... and is used for a more constant uniform heat... thu sisnt very responsive (depending on your construction spec).

Surely it's possible to run two tanks .
Tank one. ufh system to 50'.which is the target for geo systems/ufh
Tank two rads and hot water.
Motorised valves and zoned heating should take care of it.

Rushworth

Hi, Have underfloor heating (UFH) in 2.300 sq foot house and thinking to install a combination oil boiler with a buffer tank for the UFH, (Electric showers in two bathrooms and are not big users of hot water from the current immersion heater tank so hot water on demand would suit are needs much better, hence the Combe ) Unsure about heating for the UFH with the oil boiler and have read many of the comments posted about the on/off cycle of oil boilers, hence the buffer tank. I would welcome any experiences and comments or advice.

fclauson

you might find this of interest

kboc

I have a geo heat pump, my elec bill for the whole house (TV, w/m, tumble dryer, etc., etc., AND 12kw HP) is approx £700-£800 p.a. The house is approx 3,800 sq ft.

This sounds great, and it is to be honest, lovely comfortable heat and hot water for cheap running costs.

BUT........

Firstly, as pointed out by other posters, it cost more than the alternatives (approx £10,000), but OFCH would have cost approx 3-4, so it is an extra bit, but i will get this money back in 3/4/5 years on my current running costs in comparison to oil running costs.

Secondly, and more importantly, this only works because of :
insulation;
air tightness (esp good windows and doors);
maximising the orientation of the house.

All of which take time, money and, experienced trades men, which is where most self buiders in Ireland are snookered.

Really if you get the issues in the second point really correct, then you wont be worrying about high capital expenditure on HP, and this should be the real focus of your build! Search Boards.ie for "Passive House"

Good luck and never except second best

K

fclauson

So kboc makes a good point - OFCH is 3 or 4 K - but you need to meet part L renewables - so you would have to add to that solar thermal/PV or some other form of renewable which bumps up the price

HPs don't always meet you total renewables (see all my other posts on this) but it gets you some way there.

and as said - insulate, air tight, ventalate - and then work out if just how much or how little heat you need

See Tweet from T O'leary of passive house fame - dinner for 4 in NYC was equal to 50% of his heating bill - and dinner was only €150