Judas Priest - whats the crack here?

damonjewel

Guys

I just watched a programme about metal on vh1 which was pretty good but what I don't get is the esteemed position of Judas Priest in the whole scheme of metal. Growing up in the seventies I always thought their look was daft and their songs weak and still pretty much do. Maybe its an Irish thing but when you compare them to our beloved Lizzy which had a plethore of cool songs, a great look. They were in the late seventies metals finest, until maiden and motorhead.

Maybe I just don't see it but Priest really don't do it for me.

Convince me otherwise!

MooseJam

they got sued over a couple of kids shooting themselves in the head with a shotgun, they claimed if you play one of their songs backward it says "just do it", in court they played another song backwards and it said something like "Id like a peppermint sweet" very funny stuff, they got off

DeadSkin

damonjewel wrote: »

Maybe I just don't see it but Priest really don't do it for me.

Convince me otherwise!

I have one album of Priest, Painkiller and it's brilliant.
I remember years & years ago what put me off Priest was Halfords high pitch screams, but the guitar rifffage on Painkiller is just fantastic, and that'll do for me. Here's a taster[the title track];

I'm sure they'll be a few Priest fans come along soon, and hopefully they'll suggest more albums

damonjewel

MooseJam wrote: »

they got sued over a couple of kids shooting themselves in the head with a shotgun, they claimed if you play one of their songs backward it says "just do it", in court they played another song backwards and it said something like "Id like a peppermint sweet" very funny stuff, they got off

Yeah I remember that story about a right pair of dopes from America but I think the court was surprised at Halford's eloquence instead of Satan himself, and were rightly acquitted. but really that has nothing to do with the Music. In this documentary they seem to be hailed as the band that breathed new life into metal in the post punk years. Which I can't understand as there was AC/DC, Motorhead, Sabbath with DIO, Thin Lizzy, and Rainbow. Okay I get it that they were part of the New wave of British Heavy metal but so were Saxon who were helluva better

mike65

Saxon better than the Priest? :eek:

The best thing about JP was Halfords gay dress sense which was duly adopted by male teens who'd die if accused of being a "poof", some must look back and shudder now they know the truth! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzpHmbwqHLM

Mike.

damonjewel

DeadSkin wrote: »

I have one album of Priest, Painkiller and it's brilliant.
I remember years & years ago what put me off Priest was Halfords high pitch screams, but the guitar rifffage on Painkiller is just fantastic, and that'll do for me. Here's a taster

Thats pretty decent but its a decade after the point that Judas Priest are relevant in the history of metal. Im talking more around the period of sin after sin, hell bent for leather, stained class, british steel.

damonjewel

mike65 wrote: »

Saxon better than the Priest? :eek:

The best thing about JP was Halfords gay dress sense which was duly adopted by male teens who'd die if accused of being a "poof", some must look back and shudder now they know the truth! :pac:

Mike.

well thats the other thing, I loved wearing jeans and denim jackets full of badges and patches (remember crisses, sigh!), I tuned out about here when embriodery, spikey belts, and leather peak caps soon to be followed by hairspray and spandex made metal fans a laughing stock in my school. I mean the new romantics would laugh at them as they were way harder despite their flecky suits and simon hart shoes.

But that aside Priest never hit the target for me musically , Saxon were better, in hindsight not by much but they had more memorable tunes like wheels of steel

kona

damonjewel wrote: »

Guys

I just watched a programme about metal on vh1 which was pretty good but what I don't get is the esteemed position of Judas Priest in the whole scheme of metal. Growing up in the seventies I always thought their look was daft and their songs weak and still pretty much do. Maybe its an Irish thing but when you compare them to our beloved Lizzy which had a plethore of cool songs, a great look. They were in the late seventies metals finest, until maiden and motorhead.

Maybe I just don't see it but Priest really don't do it for me.

Convince me otherwise!

why??
people have different tastes just because alot of people rave about them(some for fear of abuse) doesnt mean they are amazing, im big into them but i know others that are not, they are way heavier than thin lizzy IMO

kona

damonjewel wrote: »

well thats the other thing, I loved wearing jeans and denim jackets full of badges and patches (remember crisses, sigh!), I tuned out about here when embriodery, spikey belts, and leather peak caps soon to be followed by hairspray and spandex made metal fans a laughing stock in my school. I mean the new romantics would laugh at them as they were way harder despite their flek suits and simon hart shoes.

But that aside Priest never hit the target for me musically , Saxon were better, in hindsight not by much but they had more memorable tunes like wheels of steel

saxon are ****ing IMMENSE!!!!

kona

mike65 wrote: »

Saxon better than the Priest? :eek:

The best thing about JP was Halfords gay dress sense which was duly adopted by male teens who'd die if accused of being a "poof", some must look back and shudder now they know the truth! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzpHmbwqHLM

Mike.

who gives a **** what you dress like?????
anybody who laughs at the way sombody looks ins either jealous or just a unsecure pr!ck. IMO

mike65

I think you missed my point entirely!

Mike.

kona

mike65 wrote: »

I think you missed my point entirely!

Mike.

i do kinda like the homophobic spiceboys in dublin these days, e70 on a haircut, pink shirts, designer boxers, big bright colours.
yet the most homophobic race in ireland:eek::D
mind boggles:eek:

but each to their own

damonjewel

kona wrote: »

why??
people have different tastes just because alot of people rave about them(some for fear of abuse) doesnt mean they are amazing, im big into them but i know others that are not, they are way heavier than thin lizzy IMO

Ok lets say this programme is charting metal from start to present day

So lets start with 1969 Sabbath, good ok, Deep Purple, fine yeah, Judas Priest eh? then Maiden, them good too, Motley Crue not my thing but yeah they're metal, Metallica, Anthrax and so on.

My point is really why are priest in here with these Metal heavyweights.

As for Priest being heavier than Lizzy I think not, check out Chinatown

kona

damonjewel wrote: »

Ok lets say this programme is charting metal from start to present day

So lets start with 1969 Sabbath, good ok, Deep Purple, fine yeah, Judas Priest eh? then Maiden, them good too, Motley Crue not my thing but yeah they're metal, Metallica, Anthrax and so on.

My point is really why are priest in here with these Metal heavyweights.

As for Priest being heavier than Lizzy I think not, check out Chinatown

priest were the NWOBHM, first band to break the USA, paved the way for maiden, leppard etc.

although they are much bigger in the US than here.
that painkiller tune is immense, freewheel burning, they have a HUGE influence on thrash.

IMO they are heavier than Lizzy but im sure people disagree, fair enough, lizzy have never really been my cup of tea tbh.

look at that gig in the point a few years back with lizzy, twas full of posers and muppets, you wouldnt find those types at a priest gig tbh, priest would be classed as too heavy.
fair enough they are irish and you will have a certain amount of pop culture associated with them.

heres chinatown, 1980

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gipG6jTb1Zs

not very heavy tbh

heres breaking the law, 1980

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYn5hxeFt10

not the heaviest priest song IMO, but from the same time as chinatown for a fair comparison.
still heavier than chinatown.

MooseJam

wiki says they sold 35 million albums, thats pretty big

damonjewel

kona wrote: »

priest were the NWOBHM, first band to break the USA, paved the way for maiden, leppard etc.

although they are much bigger in the US than here.
that painkiller tune is immense, freewheel burning, they have a HUGE influence on thrash.

I suppose it was the first NWOBHM that broke the US and for that they probably do have a very mentionable role in the history of metal, but for us guys here in europe, who were listening to other current stuff at that time such as AC/DC, Dokken, Accept, Dio, Scorpions, Lizzy, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, for me Priest were also rans

damonjewel

MooseJam wrote: »

wiki says they sold 35 million albums, thats pretty big

citation needed :pac: only joking but sales don't really reflect what was the best thing of any genre. E.g. based on sales would you say thriller was the greatest soul/rnb album, are the beatles the greatest band ever, is dark side of the moon really floyd's finest, is meat loaf's bat out of hell the greatest metal\rock album of all time

MooseJam

well it shows how popular they were, you can hardly call 35 million albums sold also rans

kona

damonjewel wrote: »

I suppose it was the first NWOBHM that broke the US and for that they probably do have a very mentionable role in the history of metal, but for us guys here in europe, who were listening to other current stuff at that time such as AC/DC, Dokken, Accept, Dio, Scorpions, Lizzy, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, for me Priest were also rans

american tastes and euro tastes in metal are very different for some reasons,

I dont want to go off topic but hairmetal in the USA was massive, but not as big in europe and almost non-existant in ireland.

Id say the same applies to priest, thats why they moved to LA in the 80s.

damonjewel

MooseJam wrote: »

well it shows how popular they were, you can hardly call 35 million albums sold also rans

yes I can, because they were for me and a good deal of my mates back in 1980 musically and stylistically lightweights. Now I am not here to argue their sales, which are obviously immense, I am posting this because I just don't get them.

If you were to say the twin guitar solo on this track is the sh1te or listen to the lyrics in this they really are good etc then fine I will say hell yeah! I haven't really listened to this.

I need convincing!

damonjewel

kona wrote: »

american tastes and euro tastes in metal are very different for some reasons,

I dont want to go off topic but hairmetal in the USA was massive, but not as big in europe and almost non-existant in ireland.

Id say the same applies to priest, thats why they moved to LA in the 80s.

Actually during the 80's lots of Irish metal fans loved Twisted sister, W.A.S.P., Van Halen and Crue. I think when Metal ballad songs started to happen things went bad

Maybe Priest for the americans were completely embraced because they had a look and were for want of a better word commercial.

But I still don't get them

mike65

I suppose it was the first NWOBHM that broke the US and for that they probably do have a very mentionable role in the history of metal, but for us guys here in europe, who were listening to other current stuff at that time such as AC/DC, Dokken, Accept, Dio, Scorpions, Lizzy, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, for me Priest were also rans

I can see why you'd say that, Judas Priest hit it big more or less through one song - You Got Another Thing Coming and that was a radio hit first and then edged the US Hot 100 for a few weeks. The previous 2 albums had done fair buisness and the new slick sound of Screaming For Vengance bumped them up a notch.

They cashed in/built-up with extensive US touring for about 2 years and seemed to end up a sort of rougher version of KISS with flashy pyrotenics and motorbikes and the like. Meanwhile thier home base started fading as JP lost ground to Metallica and Megadeth at the very fast and noisy end of the metal market. By 1987 they were pretty much old news in Europe and on bad movie soundtracks (Johnny B Goode anyone?).

Mike.

adox

kona wrote: »

american tastes and euro tastes in metal are very different for some reasons,

I dont want to go off topic but hairmetal in the USA was massive, but not as big in europe and almost non-existant in ireland.

Id say the same applies to priest, thats why they moved to LA in the 80s.

Well for a start, back then rock/metal was looked down on in Europe(well Britain and Ireland at least) by the mainsteam music press, whereas they were much more open in the States and it wasnt viewed on as dumb music for idiots. Also the American market was much bigger. Having said that there was quite a sizeable minority metal fan base here.

To say that "hair metal" (God I hate all these stupid genre tags) was almost non-existent in Ireland is just plain wrong. I saw numerous bands at the time play in Dublin and all their shows were sold out.

Priest have a lot of kudos amongst a lot of rock fans. They were on the go for at least 6 or 7 years before the whole NWOBHM around 1979. I look on them as a sort of leather clad version of AC/DC. They both do excately what it says on the tin. They also put on fantastic shows and wrote some cracking riffs.

Nodoby is really going to convince you to like a band. Have a good listen to them and form an opinion. Also unless you were around at the time of their success, its hard to have a perspective on their importance to a genre.

Hindsight, just as it can over state a situation and make saints of people, can also make them look totally outdated and of no relevance.

kona

adox wrote: »

Well for a start, back then rock/metal was looked down on in Europe(well Britain and Ireland at least) by the mainsteam music press, whereas they were much more open in the States and it wasnt viewed on as dumb music for idiots. Also the American market was much bigger. Having said that there was quite a sizeable minority metal fan base here.

To say that "hair metal" (God I hate all these stupid genre tags) was almost non-existent in Ireland is just plain wrong. I saw numerous bands at the time play in Dublin and all their shows were sold out.

Priest have a lot of kudos amongst a lot of rock fans. They were on the go for at least 6 or 7 years before the whole NWOBHM around 1979. I look on them as a sort of leather clad version of AC/DC. They both do excately what it says on the tin. They also put on fantastic shows and wrote some cracking riffs.

Nodoby is really going to convince you to like a band. Have a good listen to them and form an opinion. Also unless you were around at the time of their success, its hard to have a perspective on their importance to a genre.

Hindsight, just as it can over state a situation and make saints of people, can also make them look totally outdated and of no relevance.

totally agree with the looked down upon(although i was only born during this), sleaze metal is still looked down upon in metal circles....set up a thread on metal ireland about say RATT(amazing) or warrant(****E) for example, see what replies ya get;);)


what "hair/sleaze metal bands played ireland in the 80s??"

i know GnR and ac/dc played but these were more hard rock by the time they came here? AFAIK wasp played the SFX too as did def leppard.

these days they all head to the uk, i was at the wasp gig in the TBMC, the crowd were ****e, you could see blackie was pissed...put on a ****ing quality show though, pity he didnt come back this year.....


were priest around i '72??? doubt it!
they were defo NWOBHM, the first was sabbath, zep and deep purple, no way is priest in this category definatly NWOBHM.

damonjewel

Actually they had been around since 1970 but didnt release anything till 1975

Heres an interesting pre S&M look clip from 75

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BQXO8uKOU

All those metal gigs in the SFX during the 80's were always packed out whether it'd be Mama's boys or Ozzy, I remember Manowar came and I couldn't get a ticket. However we were pretty much on your own, I always remember going to the local youth club disco's sitting through sh1te like Karma Chameleon and wake me up before you go-go in the hope of getting a metal set which always consisted of whole lot of rosie, and black betty

mike65

Priest were like UFO, around for some years before they made a breakthrough so they became associated with NWOBHM dispite having roots in the first wave of metal/hard rock.

Mike.

adox

kona wrote: »

t
what "hair/sleaze metal bands played ireland in the 80s??"

Well off the top of my head, and it all depends if these are all classed as hair metal, these are a few of the acts I saw play live in Dublin:

Dokken
Queensryche
Saxon
Y&T
Ozzy Osbourne
Accept
Dan Reed Network
Def Leppard
Anvil
Danzig
Twisted Sister
W.A.S.P.
Dio


I`m sure there were loads more and these are only the ones I think may be classed in the hair metal genre. Dublin wasnt short of live metal acts coming oveer in the early/mid 80s.

BostonB

damonjewel wrote: »

Guys

I just watched a programme about metal on vh1 which was pretty good but what I don't get is the esteemed position of Judas Priest in the whole scheme of metal. Growing up in the seventies I always thought their look was daft and their songs weak and still pretty much do. Maybe its an Irish thing but when you compare them to our beloved Lizzy which had a plethore of cool songs, a great look. They were in the late seventies metals finest, until maiden and motorhead.

Maybe I just don't see it but Priest really don't do it for me.

Convince me otherwise!

I would kind of agree. Part of the scene at the time. But muscially they are not really up there. One or two good tracks, but I always thought there were kinda pop like, with simple songs, and sing a long chorus. As for hair metal. Bon Jovi were the lighter shade of that, with Leppard, Poison etc. Bon Jovi were and still are massive in Ireland. I hate all these daft genres, they are more about the fashion than the music. I have one genre for all this stuff and its Hard Rock. Its encompasses everything from Led Zeppelin to Slayer everything beyond and in between. A lot of these bands have changes styles over the years, from lighter to heavier and vice versa.

Wiki has a decent bit on JP...

Judas Priest were one of the first heavy metal bands to modernize the twin-guitar sound, with the duo of K.K. Downing and Glenn Tipton. They combined this sound with Rob Halford's unique vocal style create their own unique style of heavy-rock. They are cited often for their influence on heavy metal and the root sound of the guitar work in speed metal and thrash metal.

Many people, including influential musicians and members of prominent hard rock and heavy metal bands, believe that among the foundations for what would define "pure" heavy metal were three early Judas Priest albums: Sad Wings of Destiny (1976), Sin After Sin (1977), and Stained Class (1978).

The band often played faster than most rock groups of the time and brought a more "metallic" sound to the guitars. The songs varied from simple and straightforward tunes (e.g. "Starbreaker") to fairly structured material, changing from fast and loud to slower tempo and softer tunes in one song (e.g., "Victim of Changes", "Run of the Mill", "Beyond the Realms of Death"). Some songs, such as 1978's "Exciter", were groundbreaking for their sheer ferocity and speed; others, like "Dissident Aggressor", "Sinner" and "Tyrant", are considered to be the heaviest songs of their day, and today are considered classic metal tracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Priest

Perhaps you can only put them in context if you were listening to them in the 70's.

That said I've checked out a few vids on YouTube of JP and it is typical 80's metal for the most part. Some cool riffs.

adox

Also, just to put in context how big they were in the 80s, as far as I can remember the only two bands that could be classed as metal to appear on the Live Aid bill were themselves and Black Sabbath.

kona

adox wrote: »

Well off the top of my head, and it all depends if these are all classed as hair metal, these are a few of the acts I saw play live in Dublin:

Dokken
Queensryche
Saxon
Y&T
Ozzy Osbourne
Accept
Dan Reed Network
Def Leppard
Anvil
Danzig
Twisted Sister
W.A.S.P.
Dio


I`m sure there were loads more and these are only the ones I think may be classed in the hair metal genre. Dublin wasnt short of live metal acts coming oveer in the early/mid 80s.

im jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

that video of early priest is gas!!!!!!!!!!:D

GhostInTheRuins

Priest weren't NWOBHM.

If you don't like them, other people telling you how good they are isn't going to make you like them. All you need is 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' and 'Unleashed In The East' to understand why they are considered with bands like Sabbath and Motorhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x8IMnFCEAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzzmRT-QJjs

kona

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Priest weren't NWOBHM.

If you don't like them, other people telling you how good they are isn't going to make you like them. All you need is 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' and 'Unleashed In The East' to understand why they are considered with bands like Sabbath and Motorhead.

QUOTE]
lol i said that exact point about if he doesnt like them he doesnt like them in my first reply.


they are NWOBHM, the NWOBHM is to do wit the timing of the bands coming and being faster the the originals.
yes fair enough they were around with sabbath, but they only broke the US at the start of NWOBHM, that makes them NMOBHM!

SirLemonhead

damonjewel wrote: »

Ok lets say this programme is charting metal from start to present day

So lets start with 1969 Sabbath, good ok, Deep Purple, fine yeah, Judas Priest eh? then Maiden, them good too, Motley Crue not my thing but yeah they're metal, Metallica, Anthrax and so on.

My point is really why are priest in here with these Metal heavyweights.

As for Priest being heavier than Lizzy I think not, check out Chinatown

Sad wings of destiny, hell bent for leather, screaming for vengeance, defenders of the faith (if you don't think this is metal, you're daft in the head ) etc. They were very much relevant. If you don't think they're heavy metal heavyweights then I doubt there's much we can do to change your mind

damonjewel

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Priest weren't NWOBHM.

If you don't like them, other people telling you how good they are isn't going to make you like them. All you need is 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' and 'Unleashed In The East' to understand why they are considered with bands like Sabbath and Motorhead.

Maybe its halfords vocals because when you get past them that track on Sad wings of destiny is not bad. But that actually is before the period that they are best known for i.e. British Steel

I never said they were not heavy metal which thankfully means I'm not daft in the head :pac:

As for not liking them, well its not that I dislike them if they were on the radio or if I was in a pub and they were on, I wouldn't be annoyed at all. Its just that I don't really rate them

Considered along with Sabbath, now really lads

This is into the void by the Sabbs, which makes the posted JP songs sound like demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFY6_0QPEpU

SirLemonhead

damonjewel wrote: »

I never said they were not heavy metal which thankfully means I'm not daft in the head :pac:

Good man

GhostInTheRuins

damonjewel wrote: »

Maybe its halfords vocals because when you get past them that track on Sad wings of destiny is not bad. But that actually is before the period that they are best known for i.e. British Steel

It could be his vocals alright. I was never a fan of British Steel anyway, I still think it's a fairly crap album and don't understand why it's considered one of their best.

damonjewel wrote: »

Considered along with Sabbath, now really lads

This is into the void by the Sabbs, which makes the posted JP songs sound like demos

I can't remember who said it but here'ss a quote I've heard before:

"Black Sabbath were heavy, but Judas Priest were Metal"

damonjewel

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

It could be his vocals alright. I was never a fan of British Steel anyway, I still think it's a fairly crap album and don't understand why it's considered one of their best.



I can't remember who said it but here'ss a quote I've heard before:

"Black Sabbath were heavy, but Judas Priest were Metal"

Interesting quote

buck65

Judas Priest were for me one of the best bands around in the 80s and late 70s. Their look was well dodgy but they released some great albums. Especially Defenders of the faith, Stained Class, Sad wings of destiny and Unleashed in the east.
Things went badly with Turbo and ram it down in the late 80s but Painkiller was a crushing return to form. I lost interest after that but they were a band that got me into metal in a big way.
Their early stuff was excellent and a bit ethereal at times like Sabbath.
The Ripper, Beyond the realms of death , Dissident Agressor (Covered by SLayer) , Green Manalishi, Night Comes Down, Sinner , Before the Dawn, Diamonds and Rust.........the mouth waters.
Buy Unleashed in the East and tell me the songs aren't good (forget the dubbed in screams from the crowd!!) then we can argue.....