General Aquarium Problems

sternn

Ok, I got a second hand 110 litre aquarium about a month ago. I know the seller very well, and he cleaned out the tank before he gave it to me (it was in use up until the day of cleaning).
Since I got the tank, i have had the water running through the filtration system, and after 2 weeks, I added 6 barbs that I have..and they survived for a week. So I then got a starter stock for the tank. 3 male guppies, 4 female guppies and 8 cardinal tetras. After day 1, one of the males were found floating at the top of the tank. We then tried to take him out with a net, and he just swam away like a normal fish. Once he reached the side of the tank he stopped, and then began to sink. When he touched the bottom, he began to swim again. It was inevitable...the next morning he was properly dead.
2 days after, 2 of the cardinals have had their tails eaten, meaning they cant swim, and another one just died. Those two with no tails died a day later. So now, after 1 week and 3 days, we have 2 male guppies, 4 female guppies, and 5 cardinals. I am bringing a sample of water to the shop where I got them, I just have no idea whats going on.
1 other thing, which I have noticed, is what looks like oil on the top of the tank. I have done a 20 % water change 3 times at this stange, and then just yesterday I absorbed the top layer of water with a piece of newspaper. Could this be oil leaking from the filtration motor?

Any ideas anyone?

georgina

You really need to get the water tested. I'd even recommed buying on of those mini test kits they've very handy coz when something goes wrong in an aquarium more often than not its the water thats the problem.

The bacteria in the tank that break down the toxins in fish waste may not be well enough established to cope with the amount of fish you put in..???!!! Maybe.....

Water test will tell you so much. If ammonia and nitrite levels are high, might explain some of the deaths!

G

leopardus

It sounds to me as if your fish are simply dying from ammonia poisoning. The species of fish you got are not generally able to survive the stress (caused by ammonia) of a cycling tank.
When you get a new tanl although the water may have been de-chlorinated and filtered etc they do not have the colonies of bacteria that convert fish waste to less harmful chemicals that you will ultimately keep within acceotable levels by regular water changes.
Fish excrete nitrogenous waste as ammonia, decomposeing matter also releases ammonia. Ammonia is very toxic to fish and will kill the fish at quite low concentrations. You need to convert this ammonia to nitrite and then into nitrate; which is far less toxic to fish and can be tolerated in much higher concentrations (regular water changer keep nitrate levels tolerable). Baceteria colonies can be built up in a tank that converts these chemicals: nitrosomonas bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite, nitrobacter bacteria converts nitrite to nitrate.
The most commonly used method of doing this is using fish species that are extremely tolerant to ammonia stress to 'cycle' the tank; mollys and danios are the species usually used. The number of fish used ultimately depends on the size of the tank. The bacteria required are probably in your tank already but some sources suggest getting a piece of filter medium, substrate or plant from a well established aquarium.
A home monitoring kit is indispensible during this process.
The process takes about a month, but up to two. Levels of ammonia in the tank rise, there should be negligible amounts of nitrirte and nitrate at this stage. Continue to make partial water changer during this period (with dechlorinated water of course). After ammonia levels peak, levels of nitrite should begin to rise, this is because the bacteria (nitrosomonas) are building up in the tank. Nitrite should than fall as nitrate levels rise as nitrobacter bacteria colonies grow. The levels of nitrate are kept within a manageable range by partial water changes.
New fish should then be added in small numbers to prevent a mini-cycle (The amount of ammonia produced is too high for the current 'population ' of bacteria to deal with, this leads to a small peak in ammonia levels until the bacteria populations catch up).
This method is becoming less popular as it puts the fish under some stress and a fish-less cycling method has been devised. This method requires the addition of ever-increasing amounts of pure ammonia until the neccesary stocks of bacteria have been established, then you simply add fish to your fully cycled aquarium. There are lots of good articles on the web explaining how to do the fish-less cycle, they do however need a supply of 100% ammonia.
Good luck

sternn

Thanks for that, i know now for the future!

I brought a water sample to the fish shop today, got it tested for nitrates, ammonia, ph level etc...everything was perfectly normal. The guppy that died the day after i got them...he replaced.
The (now 4) cardinal tetras that died, his excuse was the water temperature. It was at 26 degrees. He said the temperature may have caused some of the fish to become weak hence they attack eachother. Thats why the tails were bitten off (this happened on 3 of the fish, the tails were bitten off....the other...im not quite sure).
I also got a new pump....€48....bit steep i thought...but oh well. I think i needed it cuz it was literally fallin apart, broke into 3 pieces at one stage. So i will just have to wait and see how the fish do from now on.

LegacyUser

Stern,
Have you ever heard of "Organic Aqua"? We have two large tanks totaling a 850 litres and use this in both of them.

http://www.organicaqua.com/freshwateraquariums

It means that you don't have to cycle your tank!

Organic Aqua also eliminates the need to perform water changes every 2 weeks.

By doing a 25% water change every 4 weeks and washing the filter media as instructed, your tank will remain sufficiently clean.

I've been using it for years now and have to say it is brilliant. People who visit the house comment on how clear the tanks are. It definitely wouldn't be possible to maintain that quality or clarity without organic aqua as we wouldn't have the time to do a water change every week.

There are several locations in Ireland that sell it - Petstop in Blanch have it.

This should solve your issues nicely.

cichlid child

Get on this site it's great for people that are starting out there's loads of help
www.irishfishforum.com

Fishyfreak

sternn wrote: »

Thanks for that, i know now for the future!

I brought a water sample to the fish shop today, got it tested for nitrates, ammonia, ph level etc...everything was perfectly normal. The guppy that died the day after i got them...he replaced.
The (now 4) cardinal tetras that died, his excuse was the water temperature. It was at 26 degrees. He said the temperature may have caused some of the fish to become weak hence they attack eachother. Thats why the tails were bitten off (this happened on 3 of the fish, the tails were bitten off....the other...im not quite sure).
I also got a new pump....€48....bit steep i thought...but oh well. I think i needed it cuz it was literally fallin apart, broke into 3 pieces at one stage. So i will just have to wait and see how the fish do from now on.

I'd say that shop needs to bin that test kit, judging by your stocking and the amount of time the tank is set up there is no way your water parameters were fine. The fish would have been poisoned by the poor water quality. As for the fish with no tails, tetras can become nippy among themselves when kept in small groups but that's a long shot, are there anymore fish in the tank besides what yoiu said above, any barbs left maybe?

Also that explanation about the 26 degrees is a complete load of rubbish. When fish become weak they attack each other!!!!???? Total Bull!!! 26 degrees is perfect.

For the time being do not add anymore fish and do not touch the filter. Cleaning the filter at this stage could set you back even worse. Keep doing small and regular water changes for a few weeks and get yourself a test kit.

Avoid impulse buys and research how to cycle the tank.

Also are you de-chlorinating the water? If not, make sure you do.

sternn

Nope, not de-clorinating the tank. Should I be doing that?

There is certainly no barbs left!! I know how nippy they are...they are back in my other tank, all 6 of them definately.

A female guppy died last night aswell. I dont really know what to do.
I now have 3male guppies, 3 female guppies, and 4 tetras.
Also, on 2 of the last remaining 4 tetras, i have noticed white spots. ick i think yes? Can I blame the fish shop on this? The tank was grand up until I got these new stock of fish.

Fishyfreak

There is no way the pet shop is responsible for the white spot, again it's poor water quality. The fish are stressed due to the (most probable) high Nitrites and Ammonia.

You should be dechlorinating your water for sure, how the petshop didn't even mention that is terrible.

Tap water contains traces of Chlorine, this is not good for the fish and can cause irritation to the gills among other things but the main reason to de-chlorinate the water is that the chlorine kills the beneficial bacteria in the filter, putting you back to square one again.

You need to get a slab of filter sponge from an established tank and place it in your filter asap or you will continue to lose fish. I also recommend that you get onto www.irishfishforum.com , there are loads of us there that can help you out.

sternn

I already am using a filter from an established tank that was running for 5 years. It is a second hand tank and I know the owner. I have got him to test out the water too and he finds no issues with it..

Fishyfreak

Fair enough you are using the established filter, but the chlorine could have killed a load of bacteria.

sternn

Well what I have done....and you can tell me if this is a good idea, is put the 4 tetras into a plastic bag inside the tank. I now see that 3 of them have white specs and two of them have white patches (fungus i think). Should I leave them in the bag? All 4 have not eaten anything for 2 days. I only put them in the bag an hour ago, because I was afraid of the guppies catching anything. And also, I have increased the temperature by 2 degrees, so that the production of ick slows down.

ValerieR

Eeek ... please release these poor creatures back into the tank. In the plastic bag, their waste is going to make the water quality even worse than it is in the tank! :-(
Ich is an organism which feeds and lives on the fish, drops off the fish to the gravel and settles on the fish again as part of its reproduction process.
So, yes, the guppies are possibly going to catch white spot from what is on the gravel but not from the fish that are currently in the bag.
Your best bet is to increase the temperature to 30 degrees and administrate your tank with some ich medicine (eSha is brilliant I find), remembering to remove the carbon sponge from your filter if you have one.
Increasing the temperature of the tank increases the life cycle of the white spot. You need to follow the medicine instructions carefully. White spot has a life cycle that lasts several hours/days and it might look like it has disappeared but it might not have.
The use of a dechlorinator product to treat your water is Essential ! Tap water contains ammonia (chlorine) and it's really bad for the fish.
You need to keep the water quality to good standards (no ammonia/no nitrite) by using a test kit and changing water when required (several times a week, depending on the density of the population).
Once you are through this startup hurdle, I am sure you will be able to enjoy fishkeeping! :-)

ValerieR
www.irishfishkeepers.com
connaught.fishkeeping.society@gmail.com

sternn

the bag held 5 litres, it wasnt exactly harming the fish to be in there for a cuple of hours. I just didnt want the ick to spread, its so sad seeing the fish just die. They havn't been eating for 3 days (the tetras) the guppies are alive and well (i hope). How were the white spots brought about? I dont really understand how they can appear less than a week after putting in the new stock..the water was tested before i put them in, and all levels were grand.

cichlid child

sternn wrote: »

the bag held 5 litres, it wasnt exactly harming the fish to be in there for a cuple of hours. I just didnt want the ick to spread, its so sad seeing the fish just die. They havn't been eating for 3 days (the tetras) the guppies are alive and well (i hope). How were the white spots brought about? I dont really understand how they can appear less than a week after putting in the new stock..the water was tested before i put them in, and all levels were grand.

White spot can be brought about by the fish being stressed ie:the stress of moving fom petshop to your house your water although seems fine is not the same as the peshop,new tank mates that they did not have in the petshop all these cause stress to the fish wich then can get whitespot.whitespot is now in the water of your tank not just on the fish you have to treat the water and the fish not just the fish so putting them in bags will only cause more stress.Do what the orther posts have said about treating the water and you will be fine.

sternn

Ok, now all 8 neons have died. I bought the salt medicine yesterday, and a water test kit. I have started to treat the tank.

The guppy that the fish shop replaced for us has now died....2 days after getting it. The others (now 2 males and 3 females) are swimming happily around.

1 thing I have noticed with the sick guppies is that as they get weak, they swim with their mouths breaking the surface and the rest of their body towards the bottom of the tank...almost at a 45 degree angle.

Hopefully the rest of them will survive. I saw no visible signs of fungus or ich on either of the guppies that died....im really not sure what the problem is. But i still cant believe that all 8 cardinals are dead, less than a week after buying them. A bit disappointing to be honest.

My theory is that those cardinals were a bad stock, and they caused the guppies to die. But I am only new to aquarium fish so its really only a guess. I spent €60 on these fish...it seems like a bit of a waste at the moment..

LegacyUser

Have you only gone to the petshop to get treatment for your tank???? :eek: Your first priority should be to treat the tank, beyond posting here!

A good book on aquariums and fish keeping might be a good purchase while down at the pet shop. You really have to be quick to catch these things, so leaving it a few days is not the way to go. Of course you are losing fish.

The fact that you know what the name of the disease is means you also know it needs to be treated!

sternn wrote: »

1 thing I have noticed with the sick guppies is that as they get weak, they swim with their mouths breaking the surface and the rest of their body towards the bottom of the tank...almost at a 45 degree angle.

Symptom of lack of oxygen in the water. Have you got air pumps in there? You need to have another air pump.
I guarantee you - stock is fine - it is your water or your environment.

Fishyfreak

sternn wrote: »

My theory is that those cardinals were a bad stock, and they caused the guppies to die. But I am only new to aquarium fish so its really only a guess. I spent €60 on these fish...it seems like a bit of a waste at the moment..

Ammonia poisoning!!!!!!!!

Ah look........ I give up on this one, try listening to the sound advice you've already been given by numerous people.

Get a book on fishkeeping and read it.

sternn

I must re-iterate this fact....I have bought my own testing kit, had the water tested by two different stores, and my friend who is a fish enthusiast. There is nothing wrong with the water according to all these tests. I have bought 3 medicines that were suggested on here and by the guy in the shop.
I have not just left them in the tank to die! The water has been treated for the last 2 days....im doing my best here.....

cichlid child

buy a cheap air pump and air stone

The Artist

sternn wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the water according to all these tests.

if there is nothing wrong with the water which is fine,it must be the air!
Make sure theres some sort of water movement (ripples) to create air or a air stone with a pump maybe the best option.Not expensive,pump+air stone+tubing+valves.

I have bought 3 medicines that were suggested on here and by the guy in the shop.

what are the 3 meds did ye get?

Fishyfreak

Ok then, Sorry mate but it's frustrating.

Don't start going crazy with the meds, one of the worst things for a fish keeper to do is to build up a medicine box of medication, it makes it too easy and tempting to start throwing them in when something goes wrong.

Here's my suggestion, keep it simple.

1. Do some regular and small water changes over the next few weeks with de-chlorinated water.
2. If you have treated your tanks with medication ensure that there is no Carbon in your filter and make sure the water is well aerated/aggitated as these meds rapidly remove oxygen from the water.
3. Don't touch your filter, leave it running as normal.
4. Don't add anymore fish for a few weeks.
5. Keep testing the water.

leopardus

Could you post the results of the water tests?
What are the levels of ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
PH.
Do I understand that your not dechlorinating the water? It will kill the usefull bacteria that you need to be cultivating and be incredibly stressful to the fish.

Jimkel

bubby wrote: »

Stern,
Have you ever heard of "Organic Aqua"? We have two large tanks totaling a 850 litres and use this in both of them.

http://www.organicaqua.com/freshwateraquariums

It means that you don't have to cycle your tank!



I've been using it for years now and have to say it is brilliant. People who visit the house comment on how clear the tanks are. It definitely wouldn't be possible to maintain that quality or clarity without organic aqua as we wouldn't have the time to do a water change every week.

There are several locations in Ireland that sell it - Petstop in Blanch have it.

This should solve your issues nicely.

I use it too, Organic aqua is amazing, gonna change the face of fishkeeping forever.

cichlid child

Stern just to let you know if your using organic aqua.There is no point in testing for nitrate,nitrite,amonia etc the results will be all over the place.
If you are using the organic aqua make sure you follow the instructions to the letter. good luck

Jimkel

+1