Who asked you to stick your nose in?

William Money

This situation really irritates me..

You get to a showdown with a guy and declare your two pair or whatever
he nods slowly saying yeah two pair is good and begins to muck
someone not in the hand pipes up "if you have a diamond in ure hand u win"
(four diamonds on board)
he reexamines cards entusiastically and turns over a 3 high flush

this exact scanario happened last night to someone else
the guy who made the "helpful" comment was very proud and went on
to say "you have me to thank for that (we will call theflush guy paddy)
Paddy"
i pointed out that his opponent may not be so thankful
"ah hes an honest guy and wont mind"

ironically enough the helpful guy lost a chunk of dough to paddy who
rivered a flush agaist him not five hands later!!
his comment was priceless "thats what i get for helping him"


This type of thing has happened to me a number of times almost always on
holdem. The most recent being me with AA against all in with A7
board is 10,4,5,3, and a 6 on river
his cards are covered and he sees my face up AA (i turned it up immediately)
when all his dough went in
yeah youre good he says
do you have a 2 0r a seven in your hand says helpful player
again entusiastic checking of hole cards and 7 is discovered for straight.

I dont begrudge the win but the guys butting in really irritate me.

Anyway just wanted to know whether people think this is acceptable
and what a suitable punishment should be for repeat offenders!!

ozpoker

No, it's not acceptable. Not much you can do but glare at them and remind them that it's "one player to a hand".

CHD

Best hand won.......

Tight Ted

Yes it is acceptable. You lost the hands, get over it!

5starpool

Nothing you can do except remember who they were, and if possible, try to return the favour some other time. It is the same in Omaha when people see the cards of someone who is just about to muck and tell them they have a straight or whatever.

That happened to me once a few years ago when some helpful old guy told me I had such and such a hand, and I won because of it. Smurphs Martin wasn't very happy about it!!!! I'm fairly sure back a few years ago I told someone else that they held a winning hand as well. Ah those were the naive days.

Now if something like that happens I generally let them know it is against the spirit of the game, and possibly bending the rules as well. If they don't care I mark them out for a slowroll or something. Pity I still never do slowroll them though, I really should.

Tails142

:pac::pac::pac: Maybe play against people who know the rules of holdem in future... not noticing a straight

ollyk1

Tails142 wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac: Maybe play against people who know the rules of holdem in future... not noticing a straight

A seriously -EV suggestion. I think the mods should keep an eye on you for such obvious trolling of the poker forum tbh

The OP is to be commended on his game selection skills to find such whopping fish who are trying to fold winners (and indeed getting it all in with A7 for that matter)!

As for moaning about it when they do physically manage to turn over the winning hand the very odd time I'd like to point out that there is a bad beat thread clearly marked for purpose at the top of the page:D:D

P.S. Can Ronan please post more when clearly drunk with tiredness!!

ollyk1

Tight Ted wrote: »

Yes it is acceptable. You lost the hands, get over it!

I love guys who think that pointing out what cards are needed to make a straight or to win a hand will make them appear as knowledgeable poker players in the eyes of the rest of the people at the table.

Yes I can see there is a possible straight on board ffs it's not like I learned what the hand names are of the TV last week you idiot!

As for saying to a guy who has shipped it all in preflop "if you have a deuce or a seven you win....." you may as well be saying "Hey donkey, I think you are bad enough to have got it all-in preflop with any two cards" If you really think the guy is that bad why tip him off?????

Hyzepher

I remember in my naive days of Omaha (last week some might say ) i was actually on a kind of reverse incident. I had managed to flop the nut staight and it all went in again a guy with 2 pair - he hit the house on the river and I threw my cards (face up) into the centre thinking I was beat. everyone saw them and once the next hand was dealt they all told me I had thrown away a bigeer house. Apparently only myself and the dealer where the two idiots that didn't notice.

I was peeved for about a week. I still remember the guy who took the pot - he noticed my mistake as well btw.

A great learning experience for Omaha and I'll never forget it.

TommyGunne

Underestimating "helpful" villain imo. He obv knows its better for the fish to have the monies than someone who is probably solid!

I see no problem with it though. It'd be against the spirit of the game if you noticed one guy had a winning hand and didn't speak up. Just as it is bad etiquette if it gets to showdown, your opponent has the winning hand but tries to give you the pot, and you let him. If you were playing online you lose the hand and thats it.

Asking him if he has a 2 or a 7 is just someone being an idiot though.

5starpool

In that case Chris, people were wrong not to say anything since your cards were face up.

El Stuntman

TommyGunne wrote: »

Underestimating "helpful" villain imo. He obv knows its better for the fish to have the monies than someone who is probably solid!

cardshark202

TommyGunne wrote: »

Underestimating "helpful" villain imo. He obv knows its better for the fish to have the monies than someone who is probably solid!

I see no problem with it though. It'd be against the spirit of the game if you noticed one guy had a winning hand and didn't speak up. Just as it is bad etiquette if it gets to showdown, your opponent has the winning hand but tries to give you the pot, and you let him. If you were playing online you lose the hand and thats it.

Asking him if he has a 2 or a 7 is just someone being an idiot though.

This is slightly wrong. If someone is not willing to show their hand down, they deserve no help in figuring out what they have. Its those sort of people that slow the game down holding their cards about 5 minutes after the hand is finished before deciding to just muck or something.

Hosef

In fairness, this play makes complete sense and is actually +EV for the guy making the comment.
This results in the money in the pot going into the fish’s stack where he has a better chance of winning it in the future.

Only question is whether it is legal/ethical to do it

Hyzepher

5starpool wrote: »

In that case Chris, people were wrong not to say anything since your cards were face up.

yeah but what can you do if the Dealer fails to see it.

YULETIRED

I know a guy who is colour blind and screamed for one grey card on the river agisnt me. He had 2 light greys on a 2 light grey 2 medium grey board he hit his light grey but unfortunately it was a grey diamond and not a heart. Unbeknownst to himself, his face went purple as he left the table . It serves him right as he kept calling for strange cards all night and it confued me a lot.

El Stuntman

YULETIRED wrote: »

I know a guy who is colour blind and screamed for one grey card on the river agisnt me. He had 2 light greys on a 2 light grey 2 medium grey board he hit his light grey but unfortunately it was a grey diamond and not a heart. Unbeknownst to himself, his face went purple as he left the table . It serves him right as he kept calling for strange cards all night and it confued me a lot.

are you sure he wasn't calling for 'gay' cards?

my face doesn't go purple when I miss my outs but my hair does seem to go grey in these situations, any solution?

5starpool

Hosef wrote: »

In fairness, this play makes complete sense and is actually +EV for the guy making the comment.
This results in the money in the pot going into the fish’s stack where he has a better chance of winning it in the future.

Only question is whether it is legal/ethical to do it

In most cases though, the person doing this will not be doing it in order to make the bad player get the money, but because they can't keep their nose out or think it is just good banter. There are exceptions I would imagine, but usually they are either novices or bad players themselves.

Hyzepher wrote: »

yeah but what can you do if the Dealer fails to see it.

If noone says anything, not a damn thing.

ozpoker

I think some people in this thread are confusing 2 concepts. If a player tables his hand, then "cards speak" and it's in everyone's best interest that the pot gets awarded correctly. It's an entirely different issue for a player to be coached in reading his hand prior to it being tabled, regardless of his actual skill or experience level. In this case, the primary concept is "one player to a hand".

While these concepts are breached occasionally, it's important to remind players when they are out of line.

YULETIRED

ozpoker wrote: »

I think some people in this thread are confusing 2 concepts. If a player tables his hand, then "cards speak" and it's in everyone's best interest that the pot gets awarded correctly. It's an entirely different issue for a player to be coached in reading his hand prior to it being tabled, regardless of his actual skill or experience level. In this case, the primary concept is "one player to a hand".

While these concepts are breached occasionally, it's important to remind players when they are out of line.

A fine summing up there Oz. That is it in a nutshell.

Hyzepher

Are there any rules covering this - the coaching element.

YULETIRED

El Stuntman wrote: »

are you sure he wasn't calling for 'gay' cards?

my face doesn't go purple when I miss my outs but my hair does seem to go grey in these situations, any solution?

Stunty I think time will solve you grey hair problem and sooner rather than later... you'll look just like stormin Normin then. (a slimer more polite version) wrap up well now....I can give you a monkey hat if you wish. (lots of em at home in my trophy room)

Ste05

ozpoker wrote: »

I think some people in this thread are confusing 2 concepts. If a player tables his hand, then "cards speak" and it's in everyone's best interest that the pot gets awarded correctly. It's an entirely different issue for a player to be coached in reading his hand prior to it being tabled, regardless of his actual skill or experience level. In this case, the primary concept is "one player to a hand".

While these concepts are breached occasionally, it's important to remind players when they are out of line.

Yeah, I agree, I think it was really bad form for the people in the Hyzepher hand not to say anything, seriously bad dealing, players should be able to rely on a dealer to at least keep the game honest. So although I don't think it's upto the other players to say anything, but the dealer really should have been paying attention and awarded the pot correctly. The hand wasn't mucked and should have been awarded the pot (LDO). If the guy didn't showdown his hand then tough sh1t, but once he shows it down.....

bohsman

Hyzepher wrote: »

Are there any rules covering this - the coaching element.

1 player to a hand

Hyzepher

bohsman wrote: »

1 player to a hand

So how would you rule on this situation?

bohsman

I will let the player know its one player to a hand while he is saying it, its never going to be more than a warning. Happens regularly enough.

pgodkin

he reexamines cards entusiastically and turns over a 3 high flush

How can u have a 3 high flush?

5starpool

pgodkin wrote: »

he reexamines cards entusiastically and turns over a 3 high flush

How can u have a 3 high flush?

I am going to assume you don't know what he means for the purposes of this answer.

He means that there were 4 of a suit on the board and he had the 3 of that suit in his hand. Obviously not a 3 high fludh in total, but the 3 was the clincher in his hand.

Marq

yeah I think slowrolling is your only legitimate response.

pgodkin

5starpool wrote: »

I am going to assume you don't know what he means for the purposes of this answer.

He means that there were 4 of a suit on the board and he had the 3 of that suit in his hand. Obviously not a 3 high fludh in total, but the 3 was the clincher in his hand.

Sorry i see it now, should delete my post to save face but won't,

the op, points out i thing though in a showdown suituation all hands in the showdown suituation must be shown!!

so either way you were going to lose, i play sometimes in wexford and some lads there are wild bad for name handings that would be the nuts when the hand is still goin on! that really pis*es me off, called them on it one night and they tell me that they are allowed to talk about it these people are not in the hand) and they ask me "You know who devil fish is, he always talks during hands" donkey's!!

5starpool

In a cash game though you don't always have to show your cards, some people prefer to just muck. In a situation like the above on a 4 flush board, if the other person requests to see the hand about to be mucked there would be a sense of justice if the hand they were about to muck actually wins.

Norwich Fan Rob

in the aquarium about a month ago in the 1/2 pl i had J5 suited on the bb, i think there was a 5 live so i called the extra 3 as most of the table had limped.

flop came J65 and i managed to get all in against a noob for about a 300 pot, he was playing about 140.
anyway, i tabled my J5 straight away, and turn came 6, river blank, i obv hated the turn, thinking i cant beat much now, after the river i just say 2 pair, he mucks, no your good he says.
during the next hand, he says he had AJ............i didnt say anything.
then he left the table and someone the other side of him said they saw he had AJ, ooops.

Hyzepher

Ah the auld 2-pair trick - works like a charm on noobs