Should a scooter be considered a motorbike?

Run_to_da_hills

A mate of mine is in an MCC club based not too far from Limerick City. His younger brother wanted to join the club (not mentioned :eek:) but was refused membership point blank because he had a scooter and these were not permitted in the club. Is this right? should a scooter not be considered as a Motorbike?. Some scooters such as Yamaha 400 Majesty and Suzuki Burgman 400 can well keep up with a smaller capacity motorbike.

dc69

A scooter isnt a motorbike.I used to have a moped and smoked almost every biker cause they were going at about 40 mph everywhere and mine was tuned with a 70cc kit and did 80mph.

There not bikes but by god they can give some bikers a fright when you pass them doing twice the speed their goin.lol

They are good for people who like bikes and cant get insured on proper bikes but if I owned a club and some old lad turned up on a 400cc burgman id tell him where to go.Anyone but 16-22 yr old with mopeds are not proper bikers imo and thus shouldnt be allowed into a club.

In fairnes personally I wouldnt let people with tourers or harleys into my club either if I had one but thats personal preferance

Pigeon Reaper

Do they forbid automatic bikes?

madrab

First of all there is a difference between a scooter and a moped & second they all have to face the same dangers that we put up with

2 wheels & an engine = motorbike

I hate all this elitest crap you get from some people about whats a bike & whats not

Run_to_da_hills

madrab wrote: »

First of all there is a difference between a scooter and a moped & second they all have to face the same dangers that we put up with

2 wheels & an engine = motorbike

I hate all this elitest crap you get from some people about whats a bike & whats not

I would actually say a scooter is far more dangerous than any "motorbike". Firstly the majority of them have tiny wheels which are deadly if you hit a large pothole or a greazy road secondly some of them are extremely light in weight. I had two scooters in my life, first was a Lambretta 150 which I drove around briefly with no insurance in the early 1980ies. The second was a Suzuki Katana (An insult on the name they had for their 1100cc Classic) I won this in a Sunday World competition in 02 and moved it on immediatly and put the money towards a blade.

lukester

Technically, yes.

Culturally, no.

Mr. Presentable

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would actually say a scooter is far more dangerous than any "motorbike".

Yes, but they are differently driven - or designed to be at least. You don't expect to be bombing along on a Vespa - if that's your buzz you'll have a bike.

I think, with reference to the MC, they'd be making a distinction between geared and auto machines. I know some MCs have scootered members (by which definition I mean Lambretta or traditional Vespa).

Run_to_da_hills

nipplenuts wrote: »

Yes, but they are differently driven - or designed to be at least. You don't expect to be bombing along on a Vespa - if that's your buzz you'll have a bike.

I think, with reference to the MC, they'd be making a distinction between geared and auto machines. I know some MCs have scootered members (by which definition I mean Lambretta or traditional Vespa).

A Scooter in a MC !!! :eek: There is a huge difference between MC's and MCC's. Most MC's wouldn't tolerate anything other than a Harley.

Popeleo

I'm voting yes - but that's only because I'm riding a 500cc scooter.
I'm sure some bikers look down on me because of it. I'm guilty of looking down at those on 50cc mopeds that sound like a garden strimmer.

Lots of convergence these days - would they omit the Gilera GP800 scooter with it's 840cc engine? Or let in the Aprilia Mana that looks like a traditional bike but uses the same engine and auto gearbox as the GP800?

Either way, I have no interest in joining any club full of weekend bikers. I'm on two wheels every day.

Limerick Bandit

Popeleo wrote: »

I'm voting yes - but that's only because I'm riding a 500cc scooter.
I'm sure some bikers look down on me because of it. I'm guilty of looking down at those on 50cc mopeds that sound like a garden strimmer.

Lots of convergence these days - would they omit the Gilera GP800 scooter with it's 840cc engine? Or let in the Aprilia Mana that looks like a traditional bike but uses the same engine and auto gearbox as the GP800?

Either way, I have no interest in joining any club full of weekend bikers. I'm on two wheels every day.

Very few clubs would have weekend bikers as members.
And a 500cc scooter is still a scooter not a bike as is the 800cc

Popeleo

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

Very few clubs would have weekend bikers as members.
And a 500cc scooter is still a scooter not a bike as is the 800cc

And the Aprilia Mana - is it a bike or a scooter?

colm_c

It's not scooters/mopeds that are the issue -- it's the people riding them.

There are certain people who ride scooters/mopeds who have zero consideration for other people on the road, and riding them like they're a pushbike.

Other things I've seen idiots do on mopeds:
- ride down the footpath to avoid traffic
- no indicator usage
- no checking mirrors or do any lifesavers
- trying to race me (I'm on a 1200cc motorcycle FFS)
- not moving out of the way at traffic lights to let other bikes filter up the side

Not everyone on a moped is an idiot, but there are quite a few who are and gives the rest of the moped drivers a bad name.

helimachoptor

Popeleo wrote: »

And the Aprilia Mana - is it a bike or a scooter?

How much would one of these cost?

Popeleo

colm_c wrote: »

It's not scooters/mopeds that are the issue -- it's the people riding them.

There are certain people who ride scooters/mopeds who have zero consideration for other people on the road, and riding them like they're a pushbike.

Other things I've seen idiots do on mopeds:
- ride down the footpath to avoid traffic
- no indicator usage
- no checking mirrors or do any lifesavers
- trying to race me (I'm on a 1200cc motorcycle FFS)
- not moving out of the way at traffic lights to let other bikes filter up the side

Not everyone on a moped is an idiot, but there are quite a few who are and gives the rest of the moped drivers a bad name.

I agree with you. I guess it's down to being too easy for someone with no experience to start riding and never get training. And use tracksuits as protective clothing. Guesstimating from news reports, I'd say small bikes with young riders are at far more risk of dying on the roads. Blame the government.

Personally, I've had good rider training and hold a full A licence.
I am guilty of racing the odd bike though - that's only when they're in the wrong. You give them loads of space at the lights or a junction and they decide to park in front of you because they see a scooter. If they're on a supersports bike, fair enough. If not, I'll give them the same respect they gave me.

Limerick Bandit

Popeleo wrote: »

And the Aprilia Mana - is it a bike or a scooter?

Dose it have gears?
Looks like a bike but im guessing it drives like a scooter.

Popeleo

helimachoptor wrote: »

How much would one of these cost?

10,500 yoyos.

Popeleo

Limerick Bandit wrote: »

Dose it have gears?
Looks like a bike but im guessing it drives like a scooter.

Nope - like I said it's the same engine and auto gearbox as the Gilera.
And you can manually select gears.

If your definition of bike or scooter is based on the gearbox, have a look at the new Honda DN01 cruiser. It has a new type of automatic (HFT) gearbox rumoured to be in the Goldwing and other Hondas in he next couple of years.

I was at the Tokyo Motor Show last year - they had the Honda Evo6 concept bike using the HFT box with an 1800cc Goldwing motor. Is THIS a scooter?

snollup

colm_c wrote: »

It's not scooters/mopeds that are the issue -- it's the people riding them.

There are certain people who ride scooters/mopeds who have zero consideration for other people on the road, and riding them like they're a pushbike.

Other things I've seen idiots do on mopeds:
- ride down the footpath to avoid traffic
- no indicator usage
- no checking mirrors or do any lifesavers
- trying to race me (I'm on a 1200cc motorcycle FFS)
- not moving out of the way at traffic lights to let other bikes filter up the side

Not everyone on a moped is an idiot, but there are quite a few who are and gives the rest of the moped drivers a bad name.

Sorry but this sounds like most motorbike riders too me. I drive a Vespa around Dub and fellow scooter drivers (mainly Vespa's) are fairly good on the roads. Couriers on the other are total w**k**s on the roads. Would love too have the lot of them f**ked off the roads for good!

Generally anyone who gives a sh1t about their bikes tend to also watch out for others.

Knackers on mopeds are another shower of absolute C**ts!!!!! Line em up and shoot the lot of em (some might wish to apply that rule to knackers in general)!!!!

Wossack

theres an automatic FJR too, so Im told... the gearbox is no way to define a class of bike imo, sure theres manual scooters too

lukester

Don't have anything against scooters myself, but there is a perception of scooters not being bikes, from both sides. I know a few people who ride scooters/mopeds, with and without gears, and none of them would ever dream of riding what they see as a 'bike'. Generally there's a perception that scooters are safer. And most 'bikers' I know wouldn't be interested in a scooter.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a Vespa or the likes as a runaround for town, but only in addition to my bike. I wouldn't be keen on one of the bigger scoots, Burgmans and their ilk, for aesthetic reasons- same reason I wouldn't be interested in a Pan European
But if I had to choose between a Pan or a big scoot, it'd be the Pan- gears win every time in my book (even if they're quasi-automatic).

I guess this question could also be phrased as 'Are scooter riders bikers?', with the proviso that 'biker' is a term that means different things to different people.
Some scooter riders might feel they are, most wouldn't I imagine.

And most bikers probably don't view scooter riders as bikers.

pirate reject

If this was the 60s you'd probably get a beating if you asked either side that question. And whether you rode a scooter or a motorbike would depnd on whether you wore a parka or a leather jacket.

There is an element of elitism when it comes to bike riding. For example I tour quite a bit on my bike and I find that most bikers I come across tend to give me a wave or a nod apart from Harley riders who want to be too cool for 'normal' bikes. The whole issue of weekend bikers not being admitted into a club is also ridiculous. I've done my time riding a GS500 every day through wind rain shine and snow. I now have a BMW and I take it out on weekends and holidays and thats just fine with me. I used to put up about 15k a year on my GS now I put up about 4k on my BMW. That doesn't make me any less of a rider and despite now living in the UK I'm still a life member of MAG Ireland. Any club that doesn't want me can kiss my @r$e cos I dont want to be a part of it.

All that said I learned how to ride a bike and when I did that I took a test. That was my way of serving my time to be a biker. I'm not sure what way it is now but it used to annoy me to see idiots on scooters, who didn't bother (or have to) take a test acting like prats on de-regulated 50cc hairdryers. What annoyed me more was that the average Joe public would lump me in with that lot when bemoaning how 'dangerous and wreckless motorcyclists were'. For that reason I would have never considered scooters a motorbike and I've had many an argument with those Joes on just such a topic. But thinking about it now perhaps the real question here is whether or not the person is a biker not whether the equipment is a motorbike.

galwaytt

dc69 wrote: »

A scooter isnt a motorbike.............There not bikes but by god they can give some bikers a fright when you pass them doing twice the speed their goin...........They are good for people who like bikes and cant get insured on proper bikes but if I owned a club and some old lad turned up on a 400cc burgman id tell him where to go.Anyone but 16-22 yr old with mopeds are not proper bikers imo and thus shouldnt be allowed into a club.

In fairnes personally I wouldnt let people with tourers or harleys into my club either if I had one but thats personal preferance

What complete rubbish. If it has two - or three -wheels, and an engine, it's a motorbike. Remember the very first motorbikes had no gears, belt drive..........so technically anything with a gearbox since.....is NOT a motorbike ?? :rolleyes:

If you're friend is that hung up on those guy's opinions, then he shouldn't join in the first place. Fwiw, I have a Vespa PX125, an Aprilia Atlantic 500 AND Road King. I'm not even listing the Jap stuff in the garage. Do you honestly think it matters one iota, once you're out on the road? If you do, time to retire and get a life. and a Micra..........

I met my wife through bikes - she was a mod, and I a 'biker', and I attended scooter rallies on my Suzuki GSX, and got no attitude - funny how it doesn't work the other way around - I find most H-D owners are condescending to the point of ..........well, wanting to kill them, actually :eek: ...but I digress. If I turn up on the H-D, they're all my 'buddies'............turn up on the AA500 and they're all smart arses. Maybe it's jealousy - the AA is quicker, handles better and carries two people and luggage. Come to think of it, my PX125 nearly does all that too........:D

From a legal standpoint - if you turn up to do your test, they ask if it's automatic - not whether it's a bike or not. A PX rider can ride all bikes, licence wise, an automatic user (note, I'm not saying 'scooter'), cannot.

Mind you, it's all moot anyhoo, I'd love a Mana.

dc69

galwaytt wrote: »

What complete rubbish. If it has two - or three -wheels, and an engine, it's a motorbike. Remember the very first motorbikes had no gears, belt drive..........so technically anything with a gearbox since.....is NOT a motorbike ?? :rolleyes:

If you're friend is that hung up on those guy's opinions, then he shouldn't join in the first place. Fwiw, I have a Vespa PX125, an Aprilia Atlantic 500 AND Road King. I'm not even listing the Jap stuff in the garage. Do you honestly think it matters one iota, once you're out on the road? If you do, time to retire and get a life. and a Micra..........

I met my wife through bikes - she was a mod, and I a 'biker', and I attended scooter rallies on my Suzuki GSX, and got no attitude - funny how it doesn't work the other way around - I find most H-D owners are condescending to the point of ..........well, wanting to kill them, actually :eek: ...but I digress. If I turn up on the H-D, they're all my 'buddies'............turn up on the AA500 and they're all smart arses. Maybe it's jealousy - the AA is quicker, handles better and carries two people and luggage. Come to think of it, my PX125 nearly does all that too........:D

From a legal standpoint - if you turn up to do your test, they ask if it's automatic - not whether it's a bike or not. A PX rider can ride all bikes, licence wise, an automatic user (note, I'm not saying 'scooter'), cannot.

Mind you, it's all moot anyhoo, I'd love a Mana.

what a load of rubbish?

a motorcycle is just that and a scooter/moped the same.They are different things.you either have a scooter/moped or motorcycle.end of

galwaytt

incorrect. By definition, and by dint of two wheels and an engine, it is a motorcycle - there is no grey area of kind of/part of/variation of. This is how the construction and use regs define it, anyway........

what's with the need to segregate them?

dc69

galwaytt wrote: »

what's with the need to segregate them?

because of the people who drive them

kaysersosay

a scooter has gears drove one for years,still have one and a gs 1200,fazer 1000,bandit 600 and would sell all them all before the scooter.a moped is another beast:D no gears built in track suit,custom fall off exaust say no more.http://lambretta uk

Pigeon Reaper

I have very exacting standards about the clubs I'd be in and at the end of the day all I know is I wouldnt be in any club that would have me as a member. It doesn't matter about the bike or scooter thing.

mikemac

I’m not liking the attitudes here but of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I’d consider myself a biker. Full A licence and own a motorbike.
But I use a 100cc scooter Monday-Friday for my commute to work. Why? It’s only 2km through heavy traffic so a scooter is far more suited to this than a heavy Honda Varadero.
Plus I only have a small driveway and I can’t physically fit a motorcycle in it.

I have biker.ie stickers on the scooter and have people tell me their username and shake hands at traffic lights. It’s great!
So why are some biker here elitest?

For the record, I hate knackers who race scooters around in their tracksuits as much as the next person. This doesn’t mean everyone on scooters are only wannabes and dangers to themselves and others.
In theory the safest drivers in Dublin city are taxi drivers and motorcycle couriers so they have so much experience. Pfft, are they fcuk!

madrab

dc69 wrote: »

because of the people who drive them

so if i bought a small 50cc apprillia tomorrow i wouldnt be a biker? or is only when i drive something meaty that i become a biker?

also what about honda 50's? possibly the greatest machine (let alone bike) ever made, is it a bike or scooter?

pirate reject

Just out of curiosity and at the risk of muddying the waters still further

How do we class this then?



I can imagine anyone riding one of these to be allowed to join your average MCC

arybvtcw0eolkf

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A mate of mine is in an MCC club based not too far from Limerick City. His younger brother wanted to join the club (not mentioned :eek:) but was refused membership point blank because he had a scooter and these were not permitted in the club. Is this right? should a scooter not be considered as a Motorbike?. Some scooters such as Yamaha 400 Majesty and Suzuki Burgman 400 can well keep up with a smaller capacity motorbike.

IMO yo ucan break that down further and say that the Suzuki and the Yamaha are Mopeds and not scooters.

I consider scooters to be the likes of the Vespa's and Lambretta's.

But over all I consider them all as motorbikes.

lukester

There are some clear points emerging here:

1. Scooters are by strict technical definition, motorcycles or powered two wheeled vehicles (PTWs).

2. The general, cultural definition of scooter/moped is vague, and the scooter concept is evolving, but traditionally a scooter would have these characteristics:

a) a step-through frame and footboards.
b) most of the mechanicals would be concealed.
c) automatic gears or hand operated gears, as opposed to foot operated gears

(Good info on Wikipedia)

3. A lot of (most?) scooter riders, don't consider themselves 'bikers'. Some do.

4. Most 'bikers' don't see scooters as bikes, or scooter riders as bikers.

Tigger

this is a really crap thread
two wjheels good four wheels bad, geddit

Popeleo

Mairt wrote: »

IMO you can break that down further and say that the Suzuki and the Yamaha are Mopeds and not scooters.

I consider scooters to be the likes of the Vespa's and Lambretta's.

But over all I consider them all as motorbikes.

Technically, I thought a moped had to be below 50cc and have a low top speed? My T-max will do 175kmph (at a push) - the big Gilera will do over 200kmph.

But yeah, we're all on two wheels. Screw the definitions - when we rise up against the cagers we'll need numbers. And for Givi to start doing bike-mounted grenade launchers. "Pull out in front of me motherf.................."

Steffano2002

lukester wrote: »

Technically, yes.

Culturally, no.

Well said!

I would never consider a scooter or moped a motorcycle. NEVER!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Best 'bike' I've ever owned, by far, was a Vespa PX200!.

But it certainly wasn't the fastest or most exciting - go figure!.

lukester

Mairt wrote: »

Best 'bike' I've ever owned, by far, was a Vespa PX200!.

But it certainly wasn't the fastest or most exciting - go figure!.

Mairt wrote: »

Best 'bike' I've ever owned, by far, was a Vespa PX200!.

But it certainly wasn't the fastest or most exciting - go figure!.

Best..really? I have nostalgic feelings towards an SR125 I used to ride round the back roads of Wicklow, and even a C90 I rode for a pizza delivery job as a student. Don't think that I'd consider them the best bikes I rode or owned, but I had a lot of fun on them, and there was a kind of innocent pleasure to them that has been replaced by other satisfactions now.

My best bike is usually the one I'm riding

pirate reject

I have a lot of memories of grinding along asphalt after coming off an SR125 on more than one occasion. Not my favourite bike but that said I did ride it from Wicklow to Newcastle West and from Dublin to Roscommon two up so it served me well.

I wouldnt mind a Vespa. Just cos Id like an excuse to wear an open helmet and say ciao a lot.

Luckycharm

I have a scooter/moped whatever you want to call it and I definetly don't consider myself a biker.
I see plenty of Idiots on Motorbikes and scooters - an idiot is an idiot
Amount of times I see motorbikes along the canal racing off to get to the tiny gap between the traffic where if one is slightly late will smash into a car!! (mainly couriers mind) Or the amount of motorbikes/mopeds that see playing chicken with the oncoming traffic!!!

lukester

Luckycharm wrote: »

I see plenty of Idiots on Motorbikes and scooters - an idiot is an idiot
Amount of times I see motorbikes along the canal racing off to get to the tiny gap between the traffic where if one is slightly late will smash into a car!! (mainly couriers mind) Or the amount of motorbikes/mopeds that see playing chicken with the oncoming traffic!!!

True, riding two wheels of any variety does not give you immunity from idiocy.

Saw a right tool on a KTM overtaking a queue of stationary traffic in Sandymount yesterday, trying to beat the lights across the dart tracks at the Rock Road. I'd guesstimate he was doing 60km/h, there was a girl just about to cross the road between cars in front of him- she was about to step out, if she hadn't seen him in time she would have been creamed, as would he. Muppet.

lord lucan

i ride a yamaha majesty 125 and wouldn't consider myself a biker. my trusty steed failed me yesterday morning,wouldn't start,starter motor or relay is knackered. anyways,i rang a reasonably well known bike shop in west dublin to get it repaired and was told that they don't repair mopeds,only bikes. so it looks like the distinction isn't limited to just peoples perception.

Run_to_da_hills

I wouldnt' let my ex take a Suzuki Katana 50cc scooter that I won in a Sunday World competition out for a spin. She was raging with me at the time. I told her that I didn't want her to be seen up town on it. I had no probs letting her take the Fireblade out for a spin. She now has a Ducati 916 and I am stuck with a Honda Bros 400

Tigger wrote: »

this is a really crap thread
two wjheels good four wheels bad, geddit

Some two wheels are different than other two wheels

Steffano2002

lord lucan wrote: »

i ride a yamaha majesty 125 and wouldn't consider myself a biker. my trusty steed failed me yesterday morning,wouldn't start,starter motor or relay is knackered. anyways,i rang a reasonably well known bike shop in west dublin to get it repaired and was told that they don't repair mopeds,only bikes. so it looks like the distinction isn't limited to just peoples perception.

OWNED! lol

lord lucan

Steffano2002 wrote: »

OWNED! lol

:D:D:D

his loss,told him to feck off and i won't be buying parts from him anymore:p

Steffano2002

lord lucan wrote: »

:D:D:D

his loss,told him to feck off and i won't be buying parts from him anymore:p

Well then you owned him back! Well done!

Run_to_da_hills

When I was going out with my ex 6 years ago we collected a bike magazine out called "Megabikes" published every two weeks. Each issue came with a scaled 1:12 model of a motorcycle/ Scooter. Between us we had collected well over 75 of them, when we split up she took hold of all the bikes, dumped the scooters and left me with the Harleys because she never liked them.