Motor tax & insurance penalties

peekaboo77

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on being caught driving with no tax or insurance? I was driving a car today and was followed by the guards to where I work (private property). Is it a mandatory court appearance for no insurance?Anyone got any personal experience of this?
Can you have your car siezed from private property? Or can you be pulled over by a guard on private property?

UrbanFox

peekaboo77 wrote: »

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on being caught driving with no tax or insurance? I was driving a car today and was followed by the guards to where I work (private property). Is it a mandatory court appearance for no insurance?

Yes.

AFAIK penalty points = 5 for no insurance.

Probable court imposed fine additionally.

Our man in Havana

Also disqualification.

445279.ie

Bond-007 wrote: »

Also disqualification.

That depends on the judge - some do, some don't. Also depends on previous convictions. And if you appear in court

Our man in Havana

Indeed, I have seen it happen esp where there is no appearance by the defendant.

feylya

A friend of mine was stopped with no insurance, no tax and the garda said no licence. He was called up on 6 counts:

Not having valid tax
Not displaying valid tax
Not having insurance
Not displaying insurance
Not having a licence
Not showing a licence at a garda station

He was summons. The day he went to court, an identical case before him got a few hundred euro fine. My mate got off for a couple of reasons. He did get a good lawyer though.

445279.ie

Bond-007 wrote: »

Indeed, I have seen it happen esp where there is no appearance by the defendant.

yeah, probably 99% of the time if there's no appearance. Also sometimes bench warrant issued if there are previous convictions

johnnyskeleton

Without giving legal advice or in any way acknowledging the Original post:

DCC160 wrote: »

yeah, probably 99% of the time if there's no appearance. Also sometimes bench warrant issued if there are previous convictions

I'd say in 100% of non appearances because it is mandatory unless the court is satisfied that there is good reason not to (or some similar wording).


One obvious thing that no one seems to have mentioned is that no insurance carries a prison sentence, and people are regularly sent to prison for a second or subsequent conviction for no insurance. Just in case you think (as a lot of people seem to do) that it is a mere slap on the wrist, District Court Judges see it very differently.

445279.ie

And rightly so - we all end up paying through the roof premiums to cover them!! :mad:

peekaboo77

Don't expect a slap on the wrist at all. There were extraordinary circumstances as to why I had the car (which I do not own). Was just hoping that there was a chance that it would not end up in court as do not want my name in the local rags.

Our man in Havana

Too late for that now.

jackieo2008

Can you have your car siezed from private property? Or can you be pulled over by a guard on private property?[/quote]

That to me looks strange. Did he try to pull you over on a public road or did he just follow you to where you were going? I have never heard of anyone being done for tax and insurance on private property and I didn't think that it would be allowed. Iwould have thought that they actually have to catch you in the act on a public road.
Big red head on you I'd say having this happen in your workplace!! Any consequences there?

peekaboo77

jackieo2008 wrote: »

Can you have your car siezed from private property? Or can you be pulled over by a guard on private property?

That to me looks strange. Did he try to pull you over on a public road or did he just follow you to where you were going? I have never heard of anyone being done for tax and insurance on private property and I didn't think that it would be allowed. Iwould have thought that they actually have to catch you in the act on a public road.
Big red head on you I'd say having this happen in your workplace!! Any consequences there?[/quote]

No, he did not try to pull me over. He was in the business complex when I passed in, and followed me to my parking space. I don't know anything about whether or not this is allowed, but I guess the fact is I had to enter the complex via a bpublic road and therefore he know that I was driving on the roads. Nobody else has commented on it, so I guess its a done deal on that aspect.
Yep, serious red face. I only started working there recently so am hanging my head in shame for the past few days. Boss is on hols but I'm sure he'll hear all about it on his return. Could get the sack as they have all these rules about employees being law abiding. Complete nightmare but my own fault:(

marblecity

First offence is a 12 month ban, you can apply after 6 months to have your licence reinstated.

If you have a previous convicition for similar you will be banned for two years, there is no reduction.

You can expect a heavy fine as well.

You will also pick up two penelty points for no tax that will give you a total of seven. There is also the possibility of a 3 month custodial sentence.

Not to be rude but frankly if you put your car on the road without insureance you deserve it all!

peekaboo77

marblecity wrote: »

First offence is a 12 month ban, you can apply after 6 months to have your licence reinstated.

My first offence. Have been driving for many years without as much as a parking ticket. Is it mandatory to get banned for first offence?
It was a borrowed car and drove it due to extraordinary circumstances. Not looking for judgement as I know what I did was wrong, just looking for those who know the facts.
Nobody has mentioned the privste property aspect - anyone know anything about this?

Our man in Havana

It is not mandatory provided you make an appearance. This is a case where having a good solicitor will pay dividends.

jackieo2008

peekaboo77 wrote: »

Nobody has mentioned the privste property aspect - anyone know anything about this?

I'm interested to see what anyone has to say on this too. Seems unusual and dubious to me.
Peekaboo - has your solicitor commented on this at all?

marblecity

Yes it is mandatory if the Gardai take it to court.

When did the incident take place?

Have you been summonsed? If so what is the date of the summons?

In regards to the private property if the Gardai in question witnessed you in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place contrary to the Road Traffic Acts where they actually caught up with you is not the point. If you cannot produce a certificate of insurance within 10 days to the Gardai from the date of the incident they are entitled to summons you and seek a convicition.

I would like to know why they finally inspected the vehicle and established that there was no cert of insurance in place for it at a private property? Did they not attempt to stop you at a public place?

peekaboo77

jackieo2008 wrote: »

I'm interested to see what anyone has to say on this too. Seems unusual and dubious to me.
Peekaboo - has your solicitor commented on this at all?

No summons yet so have not got a solicitor.

peekaboo77

marblecity wrote: »

Yes it is mandatory if the Gardai take it to court.

When did the incident take place?

Have you been summonsed? If so what is the date of the summons?

In regards to the private property if the Gardai in question witnessed you in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place contrary to the Road Traffic Acts where they actually caught up with you is not the point. If you cannot produce a certificate of insurance within 10 days to the Gardai from the date of the incident they are entitled to summons you and seek a convicition.

I would like to know why they finally inspected the vehicle and established that there was no cert of insurance in place for it at a private property? Did they not attempt to stop you at a public place?

It happened last week and have not been summonsed....yet.
The garda car was in the business complex ahead of me and wouldn't have had the opportunity to pull me over on the road, so did not attempt to do so. He saw me drive in through the gates though.

marblecity

They may very well forget all about you, the Irish Police are not the most effective.

Why were they in the industrial estate? Was it a regular Garda car or was it marked "Traffic Corps"

It's unusual that they would stop you in the middle of an industrial estate. Were you driving erratically? Talking on a phone? Anything that you shouldn't have been doing to draw attention to yourself?

The fact that they stopped you within the confines of an industrial estate means nothing. It is an area where traffic is about and therefore had you been involved in accident then you had no insurance to cover it. I think (but I may be wrong) the roads in these estates (also housing estates) that link from the entrance/exit to the units/houses are regarded as public roads as anyone can drive on them so for the benefit of court you may well be seen as being on a private road.

Did you admit to the Gardai you were not insured to drive the vehicle? Did they give you time to produce a cert of insurance?

Shango

Hey does anyone know how the law works with regard to no tax but valid insurance and licence. My gf was in accident had licence and insurance but no tax. Does this void her insurance or can she still make claim? Thanks.

Our man in Havana

Not having tax is not an issue when it comes to insurance.

Shango

Thanks man. The argument I thought the offender might use was if you have no tax you should legally not be on the road and therefore should not of been there to crash into. I hope it all works out, told her to pay arrears just in case.

IRISH VEGAS

peekaboo77 wrote: »

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on being caught driving with no tax or insurance? I was driving a car today and was followed by the guards to where I work (private property). Is it a mandatory court appearance for no insurance?Anyone got any personal experience of this?
Can you have your car siezed from private property? Or can you be pulled over by a guard on private property?

my tax is out by 6 months have been pulled over 3 times cops let me go last time it was inpounded got it back in 2 hrs for 125 euro, still have the car

Our man in Havana

IRISH VEGAS wrote: »

my tax is out by 6 months have been pulled over 3 times cops let me go last time it was inpounded got it back in 2 hrs for 125 euro, still have the car

It should have been crushed!

IRISH VEGAS

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It should have been crushed!

my trunk is full of oranges .... Just play the game or the system will play you

Our man in Havana

So you got it back without taxing it?

IRISH VEGAS

Our man in Havana wrote: »

So you got it back without taxing it?

sure did, and im still not going to tax it;)

Marty McFly

I call bullshiit, the gards wont release an impounded car until you show them proof of tax.

IRISH VEGAS

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

I call bullshiit, the gards wont release an impounded car until you show them proof of tax.

im serious i got mine back, im a good at negotations, Answer this why pay road tax when many streets were never built for the use of motor cars in the first place and were never upgraded for traffic flow?????

99nsr125

IRISH VEGAS wrote: »

im serious i got mine back, im a good at negotations, Answer this why pay road tax when many streets were never built for the use of motor cars in the first place and were never upgraded for traffic flow?????

That's the chicken and the egg scenario.

If users don't contribute everything will disintegrate
This goes for everything

Considering actual resurfacing costs ~30,000 a mile
money has to come from somewhere

I don't agree with car tax in fact I despise it, the CO2 system
is a very good improvement though.

IRISH VEGAS

99nsr125 wrote: »

That's the chicken and the egg scenario.

If users don't contribute everything will disintegrate
This goes for everything

Considering actual resurfacing costs ~30,000 a mile
money has to come from somewhere

I don't agree with car tax in fact I despise it, the CO2 system
is a very good improvement though.

i have never read the irish road rules,but if traffic cant flow coz streets are so narrow that only one car can only pass at certain points on a street due to the way the road has been built, it really is not a public highway for todays trasportation needs Resurfaceing i have been around ireland the last 12 months, and what person approved the tarmax you use as the compond is wrong to use thats why it breaks up, ibet thier is a lot of damage done on cars dew to this

MagicSean

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

I call bullshiit, the gards wont release an impounded car until you show them proof of tax.

Actually they can. Once the impound fee is paid the car can be released. But if the owner drives the car out of the pound without having taxed it they are committing the same offence again and can be prosecuted or have the car seized again.

FreudianSlippers

IRISH VEGAS wrote: »

i have never read the irish road rules,but if traffic cant flow coz streets are so narrow that only one car can only pass at certain points on a street due to the way the road has been built, it really is not a public highway for todays trasportation needs Resurfaceing i have been around ireland the last 12 months, and what person approved the tarmax you use as the compond is wrong to use thats why it breaks up, ibet thier is a lot of damage done on cars dew to this

Facepalm everything about this.

Now can we get this thread back on topic... I'd hate to close it because it could be a worthwhile thread.

goat2

i have no pity for anyone who drive a car on public road without having current insurance, what happens when that same car injure someone, that someone ends up on wheelchair, are you prepared to pay a few million to this person, as opposed to spending five hundred euro to insure car,

McCrack

goat2 wrote: »

i have no pity for anyone who drive a car on public road without having current insurance, what happens when that same car injure someone, that someone ends up on wheelchair, are you prepared to pay a few million to this person, as opposed to spending five hundred euro to insure car,

The nice folk in the MIBI step in if that's the case.

Our man in Havana

McCrack wrote: »

The nice folk in the MIBI step in if that's the case.

That is what we pay our 2% for.

bath handle

McCrack wrote: »

goat2 wrote: »

The nice folk in the MIBI step in if that's the case.

The MIBI pursue the uninsured driver afterwards. The assets of uninsured drivers are always at risk. I would love to see one have a Otto win confiscated to satisfy an MIBI judgment.

goat2

bath handle wrote: »

McCrack wrote: »

The MIBI pursue the uninsured driver afterwards. The assets of uninsured drivers are always at risk. I would love to see one have a Otto win confiscated to satisfy an MIBI judgment.

i did hear that uninsured drivers cost insured drivers, but i did not know that the MIBI followed up the uninsured for compensation, that is good to hear

Our man in Havana

They attempt to. If the guy has no money it ultimately comes out of the pot that those who buy insurance contribute to.

Guy:Incognito

IRISH VEGAS wrote: »

im serious i got mine back, im a good at negotations, Answer this why pay road tax when many streets were never built for the use of motor cars in the first place and were never upgraded for traffic flow?????

Road tax? Whats that? We have motor tax here and its nothign to do with payign for roads. It goes to general coffers and pays for everything.

Our man in Havana

Pendant Alert!

dev100

No, he did not try to pull me over. He was in the business complex when I passed in, and followed me to my parking space. I don't know anything about whether or not this is allowed, but I guess the fact is I had to enter the complex via a bpublic road and therefore he know that I was driving on the roads. Nobody else has commented on it, so I guess its a done deal on that aspect.
Yep, serious red face. I only started working there recently so am hanging my head in shame for the past few days. Boss is on hols but I'm sure he'll hear all about it on his return. Could get the sack as they have all these rules about employees being law abiding. Complete nightmare but my own fault:([/QUOTE]


This sounds strange how did he know you werent insured to drive that car?. Did he actually see you entering estate from a public road? If not admit nothing plead .... Have you got your car and your own insurance policy? If so check whether your policy allows you drive other cars but be aware most policies only allow you drive other cars that are already insured. Guards I think need a warrant to go after and seize something on private property. Customs can march right in.

Guy:Incognito

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Pendant Alert!

It really isnt pedantic at all. People moaning about having to pay "road tax" and the roads being crap are completely unrelated..

IRISH VEGAS

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It really isnt pedantic at all. People moaning about having to pay "road tax" and the roads being crap are completely unrelated..

the goverment just loves guys like you

source

dev100 wrote: »

I think need a warrant to go after and seize something on private property. Customs can march right in.

You need to brush up on what constitutes a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.

public place means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Which i believe you're mixing up with a public road:

public road means a road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;

So if the public have a right to access the business park (wouldn't be much of a business park if they couldn't), then the member had every right to seize the car.

www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html

Guy:Incognito

IRISH VEGAS wrote: »

the goverment just loves guys like you

People who can read?

People may aswell say that theparks are full of litter even though they tax their cars and its a disgrace. Motor tax is as relevant to roads as it it to cleaning up parks.

Just because people go on little rants about having paid their "road tax" doesnt change that. Little "clever" quips about peopel who point it out has even less of a point.

But by all means if you can find any reference to road tax or the proceeds of motor tax being ringfenced for roads, I'll gladly admit to being worng. https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/welcome.do;jsessionid=0aa0114830d75ee5eb315a6d4e18a105a4f2824571b0.e38PaNaSbhuOay0Mahj0

If the government were lying and sayign ti was for roads then spedning it on other things while letting the roads go to ****, your pointless and very irelevant attempt at being funny(?) , smart (?) or whatever it was might have some merit.