Custody??

Fiona24

Not sure if this is the right forum for this but here goes.....

My daughter is 4 the end of July. There never has been any formal agreement between her father and I about access. We only broke up around 7 months ago. I never have any problem with him or his mother having my daughter. In fact I actively encourage him to take her and to spend time with her, so long as it doesn't affect her school routine. My problem is he doesn't take her on a regular basis. He does work some funny hours but has at least three days off in the week. I keep telling him that my baby wants to spend time with him and he can take her after school but he doesn't he says things like oh i need my own time, i need a break. Of course my reaction to that is i'd like a break too but I can't get it. There is continous issues with him being cheap with money and this hurts me but also my baby when she hears no daddy won't buy me a magazine etc. (She is not spoilt she gets something as a reward if she was good at school all week etc)

Any I'm rambling away here a small bit.

1.) Is my best bet to take it to court and get custody sorted out once and for all despite his strange hours.
2.) Try talking to him again even though it never works he usually ends up shouting at me
3.) Keep going the way it is and try explaining it in a better way to my daughter why daddy doesn't call (usually say he's working)
4.) Walk away from the mess once and for all

The reason I'm asking all of this, is that I have met a lovely guy, with him 6 months and the fighting with my ex is causing the odd row with me and my bf. My ex will freak if he thinks there's a new man around my daughter

Sorry for the rambling on!!!

barbiegirl

Get it sorted in court once and for all. Just refuse to agrue with him. Let the courts deal with the access and monies and for the sake of your child keep smiling. Move on with your life and your new man :-)

Femelade

Just say to him that if ye cant sort out some agreement yerselves that you will be taking it to court and leaving the decision in their hands. If he fails to make an agreemend then you will have to do just that. Your daughter needs some stability, surely he understands this...but coming from a single parent with a gorgeous daughter who has an asshole for a father, going to court is not a nice experience, and if i were you i would try and avoid if possible.

The Corinthian

Court should be a last option if you can help it. Too many people run to the courts the moment there's a disagreement only to find that the act of bringing someone to court will negatively affect the dynamic between them forever.

Given this if you genuinely at an impasse you may need to go down the legal route.

Secondly, you are actually discussing legal access rather than custody and the two should not be confused.

You appear to have two basic points of contention; regularity and access.

The first means that is access is regular - so this could mean once every three months. If you also mean frequency then you need to specify this also. Regularity is important, but you will need to make an agreement with him with regards to frequency and this may mean compromise and even some out of the box thinking (e.g. less frequency but on the phone every day).

Money is more tricky. If you were never married then he should be contributing to half of the childcare costs depending upon what both of you can afford. Let him know what those costs are. No one wants to sign a blank cheque after all. Again, compromise and out of the box thinking (e.g. less cash up front but will pay directly education, medical, etc.) may be required.

If you were married then you are entitled to spousal maintenance and a share of the family assets also (but this means he could be entitled to some of yours too).

If you cannot agree privately, look at mediation. If mediation fails or he refuses it then go legal. Be sure that you spell it out to him that the courts are the last option, but will be an option and so set (agreed if possible) deadlines for each option. That will limit the negative impact on going to court if it ever comes to pass, because he'll have had fair warning and will have no one to blame but himself (if you bring him to court straight away he will blame you - and frankly have a point).

Guardianship is another issue (separate to maintenance, custody or even access) and this can be offered to him - although he'd probably get it anyway if he sought it legally and will already have it if you were married - as an incentive to come to an agreement and/or formalizing it in court.

Either way there is a procedure that you need to follow even if you think it will ultimately fail. Worst case it will pull the moral rug from underneath him and will also make you look very good in court. Bringing someone to court is a big deal psychologically and so anyone who tells you to glibly do so without considering the fallout is frankly an idiot.

luckat

Hmm.

Just a thought, but if the little one's father really can't be bothered, are you really doing the right thing by continually exposing her to him?

I'm not saying you should snatch her back and keep her to yourself, but perhaps you might look at the effect it has on her when she spends time with him, and whether it improves her life and her self-esteem.

Fiona24

Luckat i totally agree with you he is a bit of a ****ehead and I would love to tell him not to come near myself and my daughter but I cant deny my daughter her dad coz she loves him to bits. He only sees her when i say that shes looking for him. He did treat him very bad he was very abusive with me but he does seem to love her when he does see her. Its a catch 22 situation. Money isnt the issue in all this I pay for everything anyways the only time he buys her something is for her birthday and xmas presents. All other costs I pay for basically. I think hes 30 going on 18, he just cant admit he has to be grown up and think for someone else besides himself. But at least I know there are some really lovely guys out there that are nothing like him so its not too bad

Femelade

Fiona24 wrote: »

Luckat i totally agree with you he is a bit of a ****ehead and I would love to tell him not to come near myself and my daughter but I cant deny my daughter her dad coz she loves him to bits. He only sees her when i say that shes looking for him. He did treat him very bad he was very abusive with me but he does seem to love her when he does see her. Its a catch 22 situation. Money isnt the issue in all this I pay for everything anyways the only time he buys her something is for her birthday and xmas presents. All other costs I pay for basically. I think hes 30 going on 18, he just cant admit he has to be grown up and think for someone else besides himself. But at least I know there are some really lovely guys out there that are nothing like him so its not too bad

Same situation as myself, my ex has little or no interest in our daughter. He is not a very nice person, (didnt even get her a gift for her birthday in march) but she like your daughter, she loves her dad, and as much as i would love to keep her from him, i couldnt do it to her.

Try to avoid court anyway, but let him know that that is what it will come down to if he doesnt cop on.

The Corinthian

Fiona24 wrote: »

He only sees her when i say that shes looking for him.

Hmmm... sounds like a power thing - he's willing to answer to her but not to you.

In situations such as this it's not uncommon for fathers to resent that their access to their child is controlled by a person they may not be able to stand. It might seem irrational, but the reality is that mothers will also often use this 'control' as a means of getting back at the father - so it's not always unfounded. As a result, some fathers will effectively take their orders on how often they see the child from the child rather than from the mother.

Just an idea... what if you suggested to him access based upon what the child wants rather than what you want. He may respond to that more favourably.

Fiona24

He has said he needs time off to himself hence the reason he only sees her for a few hours once every 4-5 weeks. Ive told him about my child wanting to see him and he says im to look after her im her mother

The Corinthian

Was he always like this or only since the breakup?

Fiona24

Honestly he was always a bully. He spent most of his time shouting at me and being agressive towards me. I think he blames and hates me for getting pregnant. No doubt it was bad timing being pregnant at 20 in my 2nd year in college but i didn't give up. I did my exams pregnant and went back to college 6 weeks after she was born. So he has no reason to hate me in that sense coz i never depended on him. Its a right balls coz despite the fact that i think hes a crap dad ive a beautiful little girl who worships the shagger!!!

The Corinthian

Fiona24 wrote: »

Honestly he was always a bully. He spent most of his time shouting at me and being agressive towards me.

I meant towards your daughter. You need to separate his relationship to you with the one he has with his daughter.

I think he blames and hates me for getting pregnant. No doubt it was bad timing being pregnant at 20 in my 2nd year in college but i didn't give up. I did my exams pregnant and went back to college 6 weeks after she was born. So he has no reason to hate me in that sense coz i never depended on him.

Of course he may have a reason to hate you. If you chose to have your daughter without or against his wishes then you have in effect violated his right to reproduction. You could argue that he gave up that right the moment he stuck his John-Thomas in you, but most guys don't really accept that argument any more given that women presumably have "the right to choose".

Anyhow - that's off topic. Returning to my first reply, if all he can do is once every few weeks, then suggest that he suppliments it with more frequent contact via telephone and that there is some formula for regularity behind all this.

You may not like that level of frequency, but if it works out, it's a start to build from and it's a compromise.

Fiona24

I have asked him to ring her once a week so she can tell him all her news and he refuses saying that will increase his phone bills. Ive invited him to all her school events, keep him up to date with any school meetings, if shes sick, if she learnt or did something for the first time etc. I send him pics of her doing ballet etc. Compromise is not an issue by me i do my very best for my daughter when it comes to asking him to spend time with her. He has no reason to hate me i didnt violate his chances of reproduction. He forced his ex to have an abortion, i am personally anti abortion thats just my belief. I told him walk away if he didnt want anything to do with the baby and he said no he didnt want to walk away.

The Corinthian

Fiona24 wrote: »

I have asked him to ring her once a week so she can tell him all her news and he refuses saying that will increase his phone bills.

Does he actually want a relationship with her?

Ive invited him to all her school events, keep him up to date with any school meetings, if shes sick, if she learnt or did something for the first time etc. I send him pics of her doing ballet etc. Compromise is not an issue by me i do my very best for my daughter when it comes to asking him to spend time with her.

I'm not party to your discussions with him so I don't know if you're encouraging or pressuring him. If he perceives the latter it would likely have a negative effect given his poor relationship with you.

He has no reason to hate me i didnt violate his chances of reproduction. He forced his ex to have an abortion, i am personally anti abortion thats just my belief.

Look, if he didn't want you to have the child and you did anyway then he has a right to feel as violated as if he's forced you to have an abortion. You might not agree with this, but at the end of the day if you can't see it either, you'll never understand where he (or men in general) are coming from.

I told him walk away if he didnt want anything to do with the baby and he said no he didnt want to walk away.

True, but it could be more complicated than that. He may feel that now your daughter is in the World, he might as well do what he can (she's not to blame, after all, even if he feels you are). Unfortunately, such sentiments can get tainted the relationship with the mother. It's amazing how many fathers, for this reason, will keep away until the child is old enough so as to bypass the mother altogether.

Yonka

Corinthian, I simply cannot believe what you are saying to this girl!!

First of all, Fiona I was in your position, my daughter is 12 now but up until she was 6 her father thought he could see her whenever he damn well wanted to and let his mother share the responsibility with me. Like your ex there was only so much encouraging him to see his child more often that I could do until I got fed up and took him to court. I also started seeing another guy and he was a single father also but regularly saw his child and he encouraged me to do it and do you know what? It was the best thing I ever did because my ex was an immature selfish pratt and there would never have been any reasoning with him. I was sorry I didn't do it sooner.

It was a tough process for me and for the ex I suppose (but I didn't care actually, it wasn't about him) but I was only concerned with my daughter and not what he thought and now 6 years after that he has a great relationship with her, sees her regularly puts money in my bank for her every month and will do until she's 18 and has generally taken more responsibility. We have a great arrangement and daughter is a happy well balanced child but that never would have been possible had I not got it all sorted formally. I had a very interesting conversation with him a while ago and he told me that although he hated me at the time for bringing him to court, he now sees why I did it and actually has more respect for me and is glad I did it.

So there you go Fiona, don't think that the courts are your last option sometimes (especially going on how you've described your ex) they are your only option for the good of your child. God knows if you were withholding access, he'd be dragging you to court. Get it sorted once and for all and you will have little or no problems and if you do, well you have a court order. Now is a good time to do it while your daughter is still young, you don't have to tell her what's going on I've never told my daughter that I had to bring her dad to court and probably never will, she loves him to bits and thinks he's great and I'm delighted about that so I'll never tell her otherwise. You sound like a great mother who is only thinking of her child in all this and I really get where you're coming from so I wish you the best.

Corinthian, I have a big problem with what you've been saying here

Court should be a last option if you can help it. Too many people run to the courts the moment there's a disagreement only to find that the act of bringing someone to court will negatively affect the dynamic between them forever. Bringing someone to court is a big deal psychologically and so anyone who tells you to glibly do so without considering the fallout is frankly an idiot.

Do you have experience of this? I totally disagree with you, yes it is tough at the time but when there is a court order which is set in stone and you don't have to depend on a lose arrangement it's more than worth it in my experience. Also mediation won't work when you're dealing with an ***hole who has already proven numerous times that he can't commit to a day and time to see his child and believes it's solely the mothers responsibility to look after the child. Cut to the chase and take him to court he'll have no-one to blame but himself for not taking on board all the chances Fiona has giving him to see his child.

Of course he may have a reason to hate you. If you chose to have your daughter without or against his wishes then you have in effect violated his right to reproduction. You could argue that he gave up that right the moment he stuck his John-Thomas in you, but most guys don't really accept that argument any more given that women presumably have "the right to choose".

Oh cop on would you!"Violated his right to reproduction"??! WTF?! What does that right officially state then? Not even a woman has a RIGHT to reproduce you fool! It's as much the responsibility of the man to ensure he's taking adequate precautions not to get a girl pregnant as it is the girls "fault" it takes two people to have sex you know?! Since she was the one who found herself pregnant, she had a right to decide what to do with the baby since she will be the one carrying it and giving birth to it so that's why women "have the right to choose". The right of the man is to walk away and never see the child again, have nothing to do with them should he choose to do that. Fiona said that her ex didn't want to do that, he wanted to be part of the baby's life so then he should grow a pair and share the responsibility of his child regardless of how he gets on with Fiona. The child is too young to make decisions so Fiona, being the childs mother & primary carer, needs to make decisions on her behalf until she is 18 and can make them for herself. Therefore this ***khead needs to put his feelings on the mother behind him and be civil with her for the sake of his child. It's what adults do, you know.

True, but it could be more complicated than that. He may feel that now your daughter is in the World, he might as well do what he can (she's not to blame, after all, even if he feels you are). Unfortunately, such sentiments can get tainted the relationship with the mother. It's amazing how many fathers, for this reason, will keep away until the child is old enough so as to bypass the mother altogether.

He might as well do what he can?? Well that's not very much is it, and like I said above, he is as responsible for brining her into the world as Fiona is.

God yeah, isn't it amazing how many deadbead dads decide that rather than bypassing the mother altogether if she's difficult to deal with, and going straight to court to get access to their children, that it would be best to stay out of their kids life altogether leaving them without any father figure for their formative years then totally messing them up by springing into their lives when it's too late. Yeah good one!

And you're a moderator? Not for this forum I hope it just beggars belief, you need to grow up man, seriously or at least stop offering advice to people when you're clearly out of your depth...... *Shakes head*

The Corinthian

Yonka wrote: »

Do you have experience of this?

Yes.

I spent a year and a half trying to come to some form of agreement with a histrionic nut. I was not crazy about fatherhood, not because of the child, but because the mother is highly unstable emotionally and - from what I can make out - had spent her life being subsidized by family or boyfriends and having reached her mid-thirties with no real career, thought that entrapment might do the trick for the long term.

She was never interested in what my opinion was - either before or after the birth of my son. She resented that I had 'abandoned' her (i.e. that I was not willing to have a long term relationship with her), and only felt a boundless sense of self-entitlement, justified by what she considered was good for our son - even when it either had nothing to do with him. I'll never forget when she suggested to me that I should pay for her to bring our son on foreign holidays when he was older as it would be good for him. Her reaction when I suggested that I could bring him was laughable.

I paid maintenance from the onset, and additionally contributed towards pregnancy and other costs along the way. I continually tried to help at different stages, from finding her part-time journalism work to looking for accommodation for her. All I got in return was vicious abuse. I was told that where my money was going was none of my business (even though she lives rent and bill free) and whether I could see him or not, whether I got to decide anything for him or not changed according to her moods. Sometimes several times in a day.

Eventually, she brought me to court for maintenance - even though this was (as she knew) the line I could never accept she crosses. She rejected mediation, even though I had long been asking for it - she had nothing to gain from it I suspect. I never stopped paying, btw.

Only after court she decided that mediation would be a good idea. I was furious, but asked her for a week to think things through all the same. Four days later I received another piece of hate mail in the post. She had already returned to form.

The law is ineffectual at best if you're a single father, and while a father may be jailed for non-payment of maintenance, but mother routinely get little more than a stern talking to by a judge. Additionally, the Gardai refuse to enforce access orders and guardianship is an unenforceable joke.

So either suffer her idiot games for the next 20 years or take a step back. Given the stress that I've suffered from her - the 40 SMS's per day phone calls, the hate mail, the threats and changing of mind, I was eventually advised that I could have a relationship with my son either as an adult or as a child, but if I did the latter there was a good chance that I'd never live to do the former.

Does she see any of this? No. As I said, she's histrionic and feels a boundless sense of self-entitlement. It's all black and white for her and she need not feel responsible for anything she's done, no choice she's made.

Like you it's a simple case of the father is bad and she's a victim. Of course you might be the victim in your case and I won't assume that this is not the case - a lot of times it is just down to the guy being an asshole. But you'll forgive me if I take your own black and white view of these things with a large dose of salt, because I've heard enough of that kind of self-justifying maternal bull**** to last me a lifetime.

What I suggested to Fiona is genuine advice that seeks not to make any assumptions and goes through a process that covers every option rather than rushing into something that will end in tears. I also gave a male point of view (we are entitled to one). If he really is just an asshole (and that may well be), she has nothing to lose (and will at least go to court with the moral high ground). But if not, or if it comes down to the relationship between the parents, then it could be a breakthrough that will genuinely benefit the child.

Yonka

Well Corinthian, taking your story at face value, I feel for you if that’s the situation you are in. You’re right it is hard for single fathers to gain access to their child if the mother has a grudge against them. I see it with my boyfriend and his ex, he was always having to jump through hoops to please her or else she would withhold access to their son, then after 10 years of that he got fed up and recently spent a fortune on a good solicitor to bring her to court. She didn’t even bother turning up and now she’s planning on moving miles away down the country and taking their son with him so the court order will be harder to enforce. It ‘s tough watching him go through that sh*t and hard for me as a single mother also, to understand why his ex isn’t just happy that her child is getting to have a good relationship with his father.


Look for every dad who doesn’t want to face up to his responsibilities there’s a mother who’s using the child as a weapon to get back at the father for not wanting a relationship with her. There’s bad mothers & bad fathers and it’s sad cos all the while, it’s the child that misses out while all this squabbling goes on over their head. Some parents are too busy trying to get one over on each other to realise this unfortunately.

Eventually, she brought me to court for maintenance - even though this was (as she knew) the line I could never accept she crosses. She rejected mediation, even though I had long been asking for it - she had nothing to gain from it I suspect. I never stopped paying, btw.

Why did she bring you to court for maintenance if you were already paying? Did you decide on the amount you’d pay to her?

Like you it's a simple case of the father is bad and she's a victim. Of course you might be the victim in your case and I won't assume that this is not the case - a lot of times it is just down to the guy being an asshole. But you'll forgive me if I take your own black and white view of these things with a large dose of salt, because I've heard enough of that kind of self-justifying maternal bull**** to last me a lifetime.

I never claimed to be a victim. I was a parent who had to (and wanted to) face up to my responsibility towards my child and just wanted her dad to do the same. If anyone was the victim it was my poor child who missed out the first 3 years on seeing her dad properly and then a whole year when she was 4 years old when he fecked off to Australia to go travelling. It’s something she still remembers and asks me about. The other day she asked me how come her dad didn’t used to take her as much as he does now, it’s hard to give a diplomatic answer to that but kids are not stupid and when they reach a certain age, they begin to resent the absent parent who doesn’t bother to make regular contact with them or the parent who bad mouths the other and makes them look bad.

What I suggested to Fiona is genuine advice that seeks not to make any assumptions and goes through a process that covers every option rather than rushing into something that will end in tears. I also gave a male point of view (we are entitled to one). If he really is just an asshole (and that may well be), she has nothing to lose (and will at least go to court with the moral high ground). But if not, or if it comes down to the relationship between the parents, then it could be a breakthrough that will genuinely benefit the child.

Well I disagree there, you did make numerous assumptions when it came to advising the OP like the fact that it was solely her fault she got pregnant but I’ve stated how I feel about that in my previous post. Although you did give her some good advice re custody/access.



Also taking her story at face value I could really identify with the struggle and sheer frustration of trying to get your daughters father to take an active role in her life instead of being the one to bear the burden of bringing up your child alone. Fair enough, if the father said he wanted nothing to do with the child then you just have to respect that and get on with it but this was not the case here. It sounds like Fiona’s ex is the mirror opposite of your ex so the only way to deal with someone like that is take it to the courts and let the judge decide. Mediation is too loose an arrangement IMO and There’s no way a 4 year old should be consulted regarding access, if the father then doesn’t do what he promises to the child, how do you think that child will feel?


It’s not an ideal situation for either party but you have to be sensible about it and put your differences aside for the sake of the child cos it really is them that suffer here.

The Corinthian

Yonka wrote: »

Why did she bring you to court for maintenance if you were already paying? Did you decide on the amount you’d pay to her?

I'm not entirely certain. I'd paid her a little less after she had told me to '**** off' with regards to knowing where my money was going. Probably not a good idea, but there's bugger all else I could do. Given this, she then complained to me and so I paid the balance immediately. Or it's possibly because she wants some form of legal paper trail linking me to my son in case she decides to leave the country (she's not Irish) and sue me remotely. Maybe it's a control thing. Maybe she thought she might get more.

But mainly I suspect it comes down to attention. I had decided I wasn't going to jump when she wanted me to and had taken a policy of ignoring her attacks, threats and jibes; so she decided to up the ante.

As it turned out she got less, which is what I suspect prompted her change of heart on mediation that two weeks earlier she had rejected on the basis of being "impractical".

I was a parent who had to (and wanted to) face up to my responsibility towards my child and just wanted her dad to do the same.

Did you ask him if he wanted to be a father?

Well I disagree there, you did make numerous assumptions when it came to advising the OP like the fact that it was solely her fault she got pregnant but I’ve stated how I feel about that in my previous post. Although you did give her some good advice re custody/access.

I never meant to imply any such assumption if I did. However my advice was as neutral as possible as it did not assume either of them was in the wrong and that no matter what would result of going through the process she would gain from it. Going to court straight away assumes that there's a 'bad guy'.

So either they could come to an agreement or failing that she would pull the moral rug from beneath him. TBH, it's a no-lose situation for her. Bringing him to court straight away would guarantee that all good will would be forever extinguished.

Mediation is too loose an arrangement IMO

Any agreement arrived at through mediation can be formalised in court if needs be.

metrovelvet

Mediation is not legally binding. It will tell you that on the government leaflets on mediation. The only form of mediation which is legally binding is one which is court ordered.

The Corinthian - since you have decided to walk away from your situation as a parent, it is highly inappropriate that you are advising people who are actually parenting.

Nevyn

metrovelvet wrote: »

Mediation is not legally binding. It will tell you that on the government leaflets on mediation. The only form of mediation which is legally binding is one which is court ordered.

Actually any agreements which are drawn up as a result of mediation can be ratified and made legally binding afterwards. It certainly is a better process with each side hopefully reaching an understand of where the other person is coming from rather then having a stranger trying to make a decision about what is the life's of family members.

metrovelvet wrote: »

The Corinthian - since you have decided to walk away from your situation as a parent, it is highly inappropriate that you are advising people who are actually parenting.

Metrovelvet if you have a problem with a post used the report post function, you may think it inappropriate but the charter stated that

This forum is for any issues to do with parenting... You may discuss parenting issues, ask for advice, give advice, rant about anything parenting related, etc...

There are many types of family situations and there are many types of parenting and how children are sometimes held hostage the parent with full time custody to use a leverage and how there are parents who have full time custody are messed about by the non custodial parent and how they cope are fitting for this forum.

Anyone who is brave enough to share their personal situation is to be respected as per the charter. There are time when a parent has to limit the contact with the other parent as the interactions are toxic and do not benefit anyone and will not benefit the child. This is an unfortunate fact of life for many children as both their parents may have had a child but for what every reason can not come to sensible arrangements and respect each other's choices in an adult fashion.

So we get parents who feel they have to walk away and we get parents who refuse to have the other parent active in their child's life.

metrovelvet

Thaed -

Yes I understand that but if you have walked way then you are no longer a parent, and if you walked at the beginning then you never were.

Its just something to consider when reading advice here I suppose- that not everyone here giving advice to people raising kids are parents themselves. Thanks for pointing that out.

Nevyn

While that may mean that they are not a hands on parent in the sense of the daily work needed to rear a child that does not mean that they did not bond with thier child and that their child does not have a place in their heart and that they find the circumstances which have separated them from their child to be heart rending.

Being a parent does also mean dealing with and coming to agreements and understanding with your co parent wether they are living in the same household or not. It think that parents who are unreasonable to the point that they drive away the child's other parent
is depriving that child of a father or mother.

This is often done for control issues or other selfish reasons and due to how the system is set up in this country it tends to be children not having their father's in their life's and fathers frustrated, hurt and angry that they can not be in their children's lives but the same happens the other way around the parent with primary custody ( usually the mother ) has to deal with the other parent trying to excerise control via changing the arrangements and agreements and the result is the same it becomes toxic and the child looses out.

This happens on both sides and the single mother's section of the likes of magicmum is as depressing as the single father's sections of parental equality.

I do not want this forum which is to be inclusive to all parents to suffer such a split.

Beruthiel

metrovelvet wrote: »

The Corinthian - since you have decided to walk away from your situation as a parent, it is highly inappropriate that you are advising people who are actually parenting.

Well, you cannot say he didn't try! If half what he says is true, the mother of his child sounds like a nutjob.

whether I could see him or not, whether I got to decide anything for him or not changed according to her moods. Sometimes several times in a day

When you eventually were brought to court, did they not lay down visitation times for you? Were you given any access to the decision making process for him?

It's a sad day when parents of a child cannot come to some sort agreement for the childs sake. It's them that suffer the most in the end.

Nevyn

Parenting when you are no long in a couple relationship with the other parent of your child is tricky and as ever there is the facts of the matter and the mother's truth, the father's truth, the child's truth and all truth is subjective.

The Corinthian

Beruthiel wrote: »

When you eventually were brought to court, did they not lay down visitation times for you? Were you given any access to the decision making process for him?

To what end? As I already said access, guardianship and all the rest are pretty much unenforceable and would also condemn me to never ending war of attrition - not to mention that it would hardly benefit him to be in the middle of it.

Of course she claims that she wants me involved, and I believe she does after a fashion, but only if I do so according to her whims, no matter how unreasonable or irrational they may be or how often they may change (and until she decides she no longer wants me involved). In practical terms it simply would never work and eventually you need to draw a line. After a year and a half of trying, court was that line for me and I had told her numerous times that it would be.

Unfortunately when you find yourself in a situation with someone who at one point accused me of being in league with the eastern European Mafia to sell our son, you're pretty much on a lose-lose.

metrovelvet

You can expect mood swings from a new mother raising a new baby by herself while also dealing with a pile of custodial/maintenance issues. Its normal.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

You can expect mood swings from a new mother raising a new baby by herself while also dealing with a pile of custodial/maintenance issues. Its normal.

These are not normal mood swings. They also were present prior to her being pregnant.

metrovelvet

Beruthiel wrote: »

It's a sad day when parents of a child cannot come to some sort agreement for the childs sake. It's them that suffer the most in the end.

In 90% of cases yes. In my case it is better in the end. We had come to a couple of agreements, and my son's father broke all of them. He has shown himself to be a patholigical liar, a sociopath, a sadistic man who gave me an absolutely vicois gift to pass on to my son when he decided to walk away. I thought at first this was my biased thinking, my own resentment towards him that made me think this, but I have heard through third parties who know this man, that it is a blessing he has decided to have nothing to do with his son.

Im sure there will be damage done without him, but there would be more with him.

Nevyn

Sometimes the drama and trama surrounding a break up and unexpected pregnancy means that the parents end up hurt and frustrated to the point that counselling is needed.

As much as having a rant here can make a person feel better for a while, there are time where for their own sake and the sake of the child that professional help should be considered and pursued.

If a parent is happy in themsevles and happy in their life and the other co parent is being a pain in the arse it will not impact on them as much.

People often for get the power of words and how saying them and hearing them effects people and go to far and do dishonour to the other parent and themselves in the process.

Yonka

I'm not entirely certain. I'd paid her a little less after she had told me to '**** off' with regards to knowing where my money was going. Probably not a good idea, but there's bugger all else I could do. Given this, she then complained to me and so I paid the balance immediately. Or it's possibly because she wants some form of legal paper trail linking me to my son in case she decides to leave the country (she's not Irish) and sue me remotely. Maybe it's a control thing. Maybe she thought she might get more.

Well in fairness, who were you to decide how much to give her? Children are expensive, you obviously have no notion of that since you thought it was HER that would "get more" and so I wouldn't blame her for telling you to F*** off and taking you to court. Did you not use your day in court as an opportunity to gain official access, even if your ex refused did you ask for guardianship etc.? You are right that the system is a joke, but you have to at least try.

Did you ask him if he wanted to be a father?

Well to ask me that, is to imply I got pregnant on purpose or planned to have the baby and that's not the case. We were 17 when I fell pregnant and the reason for it was that we were BOTH careless about contraception so it's both of our "faults" that my daughter came into the world. I wasn't going to abort her (why should I, my body, my decision) and I'm glad to this day I didn't he would never have been able to force me to cos it's my decision so I had the baby and all through my pregnancy he said he'd support me and wouldn't let our baby down and guess what? He did. If he'd walked away and said he wanted nothing to do with her that'd be fine (I'd have zero respect for him and think he's a loser but I'd have gotten on with it) but the funny thing was that he thought he was actually a good dad for seeing her once in a blue moon and leaving the hard work to me and his mother.

I never meant to imply any such assumption if I did. However my advice was as neutral as possible as it did not assume either of them was in the wrong and that no matter what would result of going through the process she would gain from it. Going to court straight away assumes that there's a 'bad guy'.

But in Fiona's case, there was a bad guy - her ex! Again taking her story at face value, she told us that her ex only saw the child every 5-6 weeks, didn't pay maintenance etc.. Why would you think that's a good thing to do and why would you imagine that trying to sit down and talk after giving him all those opportunities to see the child, would work. Court is the only way to go in this instance IMO, the child is young it doesn't have to affect her negativley, if anything it will have a positive impact on her when she gets to see her beloved Daddy more often and that's all that matters.

The Corinthian

Yonka wrote: »

Well in fairness, who were you to decide how much to give her? Children are expensive, you obviously have no notion of that since you thought it was HER that would "get more" and so I wouldn't blame her for telling you to F*** off and taking you to court.

I'm the guy paying. So forgive me for fscking wanting to know if my money is going on my son or on bottles of wine.

And of course I have no notion of the cost since she refused to tell me when I asked. The most I've ever received in this respect is bills whenever she wanted me to pay more.

Did you not use your day in court as an opportunity to gain official access, even if your ex refused did you ask for guardianship etc.? You are right that the system is a joke, but you have to at least try.

I've already answered this.

Well to ask me that, is to imply I got pregnant on purpose or planned to have the baby and that's not the case.

There is no such implication. I was asking as to whether you asked him after you got pregnant and you both found yourselves with an unplanned pregnancy.

I won't even touch the rest of your response on that point as it would definitely end up in a flame war.

But in Fiona's case, there was a bad guy - her ex! Again taking her story at face value, she told us that her ex only saw the child every 5-6 weeks, didn't pay maintenance etc..

You should never take stories at face value (even mine). If you do and things are not as they seem, then all you will end up doing is validate an opinion that you've been set up to have. This is why my advice was more neutral.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

Sometimes the drama and trama surrounding a break up and unexpected pregnancy means that the parents end up hurt and frustrated to the point that counselling is needed.

As much as having a rant here can make a person feel better for a while, there are time where for their own sake and the sake of the child that professional help should be considered and pursued.

If a parent is happy in themsevles and happy in their life and the other co parent is being a pain in the arse it will not impact on them as much.

People often for get the power of words and how saying them and hearing them effects people and go to far and do dishonour to the other parent and themselves in the process.

This is absolutely so true and so easily forgotten. I will never forget when my sons father accused me of organising a transatlantic move around my dates of ovulation so as to imply that I trapped him so I could get a free ride, just a step away from calling me a prostitute. What made it weird was that he was unemployed at the time and I am from the richest city in the world so why wouldnt I stay home and catch a tiger instead of flying transatlantic to catch an unemployed cockroach? To show you how nuts this guy is he then asked for a dna test, to imply I was ****ing a lot of guys for money and was either lying about the paternity or so stupid I didn't know who the dad was [but clever enough to organise a trip around ovulation to trap the UC -unemployed cockroach]. It set up a bad example of "dishonourning" one which I followed and practised and continue to do because my lower self gets the better of me.

He then tried to slander me to my own mother, making me out to be "nuts", which he then denied, but as time unfolds it turns out she was not lying - that painting me as insane is exactly what he has done and continues to do in order to justify himself. Anyhow, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Didnt want access, didnt want custody, saw the child 5 times in int 11 months of his life, gave him as a goodbye gift And still thinks HE is the victim.

Nevyn

Many men want a paternity test done to make sure they are not funding someone elses child,
personally I think it is a wise thing to do and if you know your dates then what is the harm.

kmick

Fiona if I were you you I would keep a log of two things.

1) All costs for your lovely daughter from now on. Set up a spreadsheet on your computer or keep a notebook with each expense.
2) All time be it phonecalls, visits etc that she spends with her dad.

Then from now on log it all.

Then I think a bit of reverse psychology for our absent dad might be in order. It might be painful for the child but a period where you dont put any pressure on him might work. Dont phone or call him. If he asks for access grant it but on your terms i.e. dont be immediately available. if something is too easy we dont appreciate it so make it a bit harder.

Then on the finance side I would suggest then that after a period (say three months) you send on the list of all expenses you have collated and propose that these are running expense and he needs to pay half.

Neither may work but Id try them before you have to go the hard route.

Nevyn

It's only been 7 months Fiona24
it may take a year of getting over the break up before you can sort and settle a routine betweeen you.

He may be still hurt, angry or frustrated wtih how things went and how things are and may just not be able to make the most of it for your daughter.

The Corinthian

kmick wrote: »

Then I think a bit of reverse psychology for our absent dad might be in order.

I agree with this approach and essentially suggested something similar.

The way I view it is that the father in question either may have valid grievances or he may simply be using them to justify what he wants to do anyway. So even if it is the latter you will in effect be giving him enough rope to hang himself whereby he cannot fall back on those grievances as an excuse. If the former, such an approach could be the first step in a constructive relationship moving forward.

Of course, this does not always work. I've always kept careful record in writing of agreements or incidences between me and my son's mother. That I have proof (or she typically lacks proof for her claims) can be a moot point when the other party simply does not want to listen and prefers to believe an account of events that is based upon manipulated facts or even invention.

However, even if the other parent is unwilling to accept such evidence, a court will be - as will the child when they are old enough to work things out for themselves.

Carrigart Exile

kmick wrote: »

Fiona if I were you you I would keep a log of two things.

1) All costs for your lovely daughter from now on. Set up a spreadsheet on your computer or keep a notebook with each expense.
2) All time be it phonecalls, visits etc that she spends with her dad.

Then from now on log it all.

Then I think a bit of reverse psychology for our absent dad might be in order. It might be painful for the child but a period where you dont put any pressure on him might work. Dont phone or call him. If he asks for access grant it but on your terms i.e. dont be immediately available. if something is too easy we dont appreciate it so make it a bit harder.

Then on the finance side I would suggest then that after a period (say three months) you send on the list of all expenses you have collated and propose that these are running expense and he needs to pay half.

Neither may work but Id try them before you have to go the hard route.

They should be sharing the love of their child, which by now will be sick of the behaviour of its parents and you advocate spying and 'not making things too easy for his access'. Are you for real, have you lived through a break up where a child is involved or is this from your 'fighting for the sisterhood' handbook.

OP by all means make a short log of expenses so that he can see just what it costs, but forget the rest of that.

kmick

Carrigart Exile wrote: »

They should be sharing the love of their child, which by now will be sick of the behaviour of its parents and you advocate spying and 'not making things too easy for his access'. Are you for real, have you lived through a break up where a child is involved or is this from your 'fighting for the sisterhood' handbook.

OP by all means make a short log of expenses so that he can see just what it costs, but forget the rest of that.

Yeah they should be sharing but he is obviously not interested.

Spying? All I said was log all visits and moneys spent. Thats not spying thats keeping a record which can be used if it goes to court or mediation. Im a firm believer in recording the evidence.

Im a man by the way - I tried to buy that book 'fighting for the sisterhood' but my deep voice and stubble were a dead giveaway.

tvp

I went through the whole courts thing sevral times and then one day my ex decided he didn't want to see his children anymore. I have to say in my case it was the best decision he ever made because my kids stopped stairing out the window waiting on Daddy. He hasn't seen them in 7 years and it's only now that my daughter is a teenager she is a bit curious as to where he is and what he might be like now. I will help them look for him when they are both old enough. Also I was awarded 15 quid between the two children yes 7.50 each, to be paid into the courts. He paid this for a couple of months and then stopped that too. The courts never brought him back to see why he couldn't pay such a small amount. Therefore I wouldn't be too keen to go through the court system again. I think if they love their kids they will look after them but if they feel like they have been trapped then maybe you should just leave him be and i promise your child will have a much happier life without crap!

MojoMaker

Yonka wrote: »

Corinthian, First of all, Fiona I was in your position, my daughter is 12 now but up until she was 6 her father thought he could see her whenever he damn well wanted to and let his mother share the responsibility with me.

What was wrong with this? Sounds like an enormous help?? Are you saying you restricted the amount of time he could spend with his child and/or tried to dictate when exactly he could see his child?