Irish Councillors thread (fixed)

lee_arama

Just going over a quote from the Indo from 05 and was wondering on genuine, thought out feedback on the topic...

"With the best will in the world, it is hard to say much in favour of Ireland's local councillors."

If possible I would like to hear yay or nay with regards the statement, and if possible backed up with anecdotal evidence.

I remember years back trying to get some (well the family was) paperwork and stuff sorted with the army but to no avail; while our local councillor was able to sort it all out within a matter of weeks.

Conversely it was commented to me by one councillor that he was surprised our own local councillor chose not to intervene in a planning dispute which we involved in a few years back. I hadn't thought much on it at the time but was intrigued as to the potential reasoning behind a lack of intervention (other than the fact it might be seen as strongarm tactics).

Thought folks? More on the quote than my own personal anecdotes...

DadaKopf

Thoughts on the quote?

You just can't generalise. There are some very well motivated councillors, and badly motivated councillors. Some good, some apalling. There's over 1,000 of them, you know. However, it depends on what you, or anyone else things is 'good'. There's 'good' in terms of the principles and values of republican democracy, civic responsibility and equality, and the other, corrupt values (but no principles) underlying much of Irish political culture.

The experience you describe implies a strong element of clientelism. As a citizen, you/your family had a reasonable expectation of prompt service from the state, and possibly a right to it. But, in effect, the councillor with, whom you had a personal relationship, assisted you in jumping the queue, having negative effects on other people in the queue. This contravenes the principles and values this republic was founded on.

As a citizen, you have an equal entitlement to a service, but not an entitlement to undermine other's equal entitlements. You wait your turn, and if the service stinks, you go through proper channels. Clientelism is corroding Ireland's body politic.

As for councillors, I also think much of their behaviour is driven by a very dysfunctional system. They have a range of official duties enshrined in law, but a great many spend much of their time doing everything they can to get re-elected; they either conspire against fair treatment by the state, or they create the illusion that they're 'fixing' things for their citizens. In reality, councillors can do quite little to hurry along official processes, but it's important that they create the illusion that they can. This all undermines social cohesion and fairness in society.

The local government system is a mess. I heard on the radio the other day that any major traffic decision made by Dublin City Council has to be negotiated among 44 different semi-state agencies. Then there's the problem with how to affect economic development, for example, in your own area. Do you go to the local authority office, a councillor, a county development board, a chair of a strategic policy group, have a town meeting and protest, go to the department of enterprise, your TD, or any one of over 500 agencies? Who do you go to to get something done? The system is practically impenetrable from a citizen's point of view, so councillors portray themselves as the gatekeepers, which suits them fine but undermines democracy and fairness as a whole.

So, my thought is your whole premise is wrong. A councillor isn't good because he fixes things for you, a councillor is good when they discharge their official duties on behalf of their constituents.

lee_arama

Those are the kind of comments I'm seeking - Irish politics is entirely unique in the Western Hemisphere. The Political Culture we have here doesn't exhibit anything of what we might expect from reading Peter Mair, or Lipset and Rokkan.

Irish politics are entirely localised which is why the dual mandate needed to be removed; so that the national questions could be addressed.

When I say that our councillor did for us what we could not manage ourselves it's not that there was red tape to be cut it was that we were not being dealt with full stop.

I'm looking for solid responses (such as you just posted DadaKopf {name is familiar - what other forums would I know it from?? Freakfm??}).

Anyone who knows politics has an opinion on this quote and I'm looking to forumulate a reasoned and targetted reply to it. Whether said reply would get as far as the editor who knows...

DadaKopf

Lipset? Rokkan? Mair? Sounds like first or second year politics to me. Essay? But I agree, we're unique as a nation (but what country isn't?). But we exhibit many of the traits of recently independent, decolonised states.

lee_arama

Back in 1st year alright. Gave up on my other undergraduate degree. GPP is more my style.

I have feedback from some councillors (waiting on some from TD's) and wanted to hear what the people at large had to say. A general forum would be no good because then I'd just get uneducated/illiterate responses along with a youtube link to something.

What I'm hunting for is information as to whether those who are inclined to use councillors, or need them, feel that they're getting the job done or not.

Everyone has a story as to how XYZ down the road did this and that for them. I'd hoped to hear more of those stories so that I could get an idea as to how people view the system.

Life in Ireland nowadays is drastically different from how it was 20 years ago, and that's even taking into account a pre-supposed change in society... I think modern society has evolved far beyond where any political scientist theorised...

DadaKopf

You might want to check out some IPA books on the subject. And perhaps your library has some TASC publications on the issue. There are also a number of submissions from councillors, the public, academics and professional bodies to the Government on the Dept. of the Environment website about local government reform. Also, take a look at the green paper on local government reform.