Revelations:BEAST is a supercomputer

siochain

Recently had a conversation with two fellow Christians and the topic of Revelations came up. The tried to convince me that the beast has already appeared and is a super computer located in Belgium named B.E.A.S.T that controls the world banks and the sign\mark of the beast will be a barcode or chip either in peoples forehead or wrist and soon no one will be able to buy anything without it. After some (heated) discussion where they tried to map the scripture to events related to this computer I cleared noted that Revelations clearly warns of false prophets.

It’s this kind of aggressive unsubstantiated bible bashing would turn people away from Christianity and give the rest of us a bad name.


Any thoughts?

Zombrex

siochain wrote: »

Revelations clearly warns of false prophets.

The B.E.A.S.T myth is a fabrication (probably originated with fake newspaper articles related to the promotion of a film).

Though as a software engineer I get endless pleasure from it (what it is claimed this computer can do is not only ridiculous, but rather pointless for the task it is given)

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/beastofbelgium.htm

JimiTime

siochain wrote: »

Recently had a conversation with two fellow Christians and the topic of Revelations came up. The tried to convince me that the beast has already appeared and is a super computer located in Belgium named B.E.A.S.T that controls the world banks and the sign\mark of the beast will be a barcode or chip either in peoples forehead or wrist and soon no one will be able to buy anything without it. After some (heated) discussion where they tried to map the scripture to events related to this computer I cleared noted that Revelations clearly warns of false prophets.

It’s this kind of aggressive unsubstantiated bible bashing would turn people away from Christianity and give the rest of us a bad name.


Any thoughts?

An example of people getting carried away with their opinions, in this case a very silly one, as the computer in question was never real. The good thing about religious groups making wild pronouncements, is that it can reveal them as charlatans.

PDN

siochain wrote: »

Recently had a conversation with two fellow Christians and the topic of Revelations came up. The tried to convince me that the beast has already appeared and is a super computer located in Belgium named B.E.A.S.T that controls the world banks and the sign\mark of the beast will be a barcode or chip either in peoples forehead or wrist and soon no one will be able to buy anything without it. After some (heated) discussion where they tried to map the scripture to events related to this computer I cleared noted that Revelations clearly warns of false prophets.

It’s this kind of aggressive unsubstantiated bible bashing would turn people away from Christianity and give the rest of us a bad name.


Any thoughts?

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but what you describe is not 'bible bashing' since they appear to be chasing figments of their own imaginations rather than actually following the Bible.

When I listen to some of this stuff it can make me ashamed to admit I'm a Christian.

siochain

Hi PDN,

Things is they were trying to back it up with scripture (very poorly at that) and getting themselves in knots over it. The scary things is they felt they were following the bible. When they got frustrated I was accused of not believing what’s in my bible etc…

Ciaran500

Wonder how long it will take for Run to da hills to arrive, this story seems right up his alley.

Run_to_da_hills

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Wonder how long it will take for Run to da hills to arrive, this story seems right up his alley.

kelly1

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Wonder how long it will take for Run to da hills to arrive, this story seems right up his alley.

You got there before me!

Akrasia

Wouldn't it be nice if the bioble was written in a clear way that was less likely to be interpreted in so many crazy ways to justify so many crazy beliefs.

MooseJam

" but no computer expert that I know of is worried about whether a database program could become the Antichrist."

kelly1

Akrasia wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice if the bioble was written in a clear way that was less likely to be interpreted in so many crazy ways to justify so many crazy beliefs.

I tend to agree with the first part of what you wrote. At times the bible could be a lot more explicit.

Run_to_da_hills

I take the "beast" as a single world organization or Government that will in time take control all of global security and economics. It will have a religious wing attached to it which I believe could possibly be the Roman Catholic Church.

Computers may well be used by this organization as a tool attain, store profiles and keep track of each individual in their daily lives. That "Beast as a computer thing in Belgium" came straight out of Mary Stewart Relphs book who incidentally claimed it was a "Hewlett Packard" :eek: The hard drive in an average "super computer back in 1981 would have probably been no more than a few gigs. (Less than the capacity of the average pen drive or multimedia mobile phone today).

The average household computer made today could well enough have the capacity store the profiles of every single person on this planet.

PDN

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That "Beast as a computer thing in Belgium" came straight out of Mary Stewart Relphs book who incidentally claimed it was a "Hewlett Packard" :eek:

If it crashes as often as my HP laptop then I don't think we'll have much to fear from the AntiChrist.

FX Meister

they sound like two knob heads believeing that tripe. Do they actually form a functioning part of society?

bonkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The average household computer made today could well enough have the capacity store the profiles of every single person on this planet.

Not even close. The average home computer has far less than a terabyte of disk.

One terabyte is 1,099,511,627,776 bytes

Recent Estimated world population 6,666,666,666
No, really, we were estimated to have passed that point late last week, which I thought appropriate for this thread....

== Roughly 164 bytes per person.

Thats one small profile.

CerebralCortex

siochain wrote: »

....It’s this kind of aggressive unsubstantiated bible bashing would turn people away from Christianity and give the rest of us a bad name.


Any thoughts?

No I think christianity being christianity gives christianity a bad name. Also people aren't turned away from it they just don't believe in it, like me. Even if christianity were a more sensible religion I still would turn to it.

po0k

CerebralCortex wrote: »

No I think christianity being christianity gives christianity a bad name. Also people aren't turned away from it they just don't believe in it, like me. Even if christianity were a more sensible religion I still would turn to it.

The Religion/Set of Ethics and Morals is fine for the most part.
It's the Church dogma that is antiquated and redundant.
Nutters, however, are a constant.

robindch

siochain wrote: »

The tried to convince me that the beast has already appeared and is a super computer located in Belgium named B.E.A.S.T that controls the world banks and the sign\mark of the beast will be a barcode or chip either in peoples forehead or wrist and soon no one will be able to buy anything without it.

An uncharacteristically prescient christian revelation, I must say, given that MasterCard have their European headquarters in Belgium:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/company/en/corporate/mastercard_europe.html

Their Waterloo facility houses their European network processing center, one of three worldwide, which is known internally as the "Big Electrical Appliance for Shopping and Trade". Sounds like it might be the thing your friends have heard about. It processes chip transactions and it's got a barcode glued to the side too, if any more proof is needed.

Looks like housewife Mary Stewart Relfe was onto something. My advice -- tell all your friends, then run for your lives.

DublinWriter

The whole inclusion of the Book of Revelation in the bible as we know it today is a controversial one. The original text was not written by 'St.John', but as was the style of the era, dedicated and accredited by the original author, to 'John the Devine', whom many took to be John the Apostle. The original author had much less humble origins.

Christian Determinists will argue that 'the Hand of God' prevails in the provenance and editorship of the bible as we know it today as it is supposed to be his word as revealed to mankind; yet they will play the 'free will' card when it comes to all the other actions of mankind down through the ages.

There are many quite erudite and complex definitions to describe this particular exegesis and theological standpoint.

Me? I call it having your cake and eating it.

Run_to_da_hills

bonkey wrote: »

Not even close. The average home computer has far less than a terabyte of disk.

One terabyte is 1,099,511,627,776 bytes

Recent Estimated world population 6,666,666,666
No, really, we were estimated to have passed that point late last week, which I thought appropriate for this thread....

== Roughly 164 bytes per person.

Thats one small profile.

The average decent modern computer can take up to 3 hard drives from the mainboard including the master. (Not talking about the rubbish from Apple ) and maybe 4 if it is using all sata connections and the IDE running the DVD RW. You can also use several external 1TB Caddies. A 1000GB SATA HDD can be bought for 100STG or less new on EBay. That is a cheap "super computer".

For those that want to add even more additional drives they can add a SATA controll card. This one in the pict will take up to 6 additional hard drives that could be another 6 Terrabites!! :eek:

PDN

DublinWriter wrote: »

The whole inclusion of the Book of Revelation in the bible as we know it today is a controversial one. The original text was not written by 'St.John', but as was the style of the era, dedicated and accredited by the original author, to 'John the Devine', whom many took to be John the Apostle. The original author had much less humble origins.

The author specifically claims to be called John. Whether it was the apostle John is not stated in the book.

Christian Determinists will argue that 'the Hand of God' prevails in the provenance and editorship of the bible as we know it today as it is supposed to be his word as revealed to mankind; yet they will play the 'free will' card when it comes to all the other actions of mankind down through the ages.

There are many quite erudite and complex definitions to describe this particular exegesis and theological standpoint.

Me? I call it having your cake and eating it.

Christians believe that the Scripture is inspired by God. Each of the writers used their intellectual faculties etc but God ensured that the end product was a revelation from Him.

DublinWriter

PDN wrote: »

Christians believe that the Scripture is inspired by God. Each of the writers used their intellectual faculties etc but God ensured that the end product was a revelation from Him.

Did he? Can you quote Canonical source on this, or do you have a hot line?

PDN

DublinWriter wrote: »

Did he? Can you quote Canonical source on this, or do you have a hot line?

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:20-21)

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

DublinWriter

PDN wrote: »

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:20-21)

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So you're not a big shellfish fan then, PDN?

wolfsbane

DublinWriter wrote: »

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So you're not a big shellfish fan then, PDN?

You think PDN is a 2000+year old Jew? I took him for an <50 year old Irish Christian. If I'm right, he is free to eat shellfish to his heart's content.

Hey, even a 2000+year old Jew alive today would no longer be under the Old Covenant. Christ has come and fulfilled all the law, all the types and shadows, and abolished the Mosaic Covenant. He introduced the New Covenant, where circumcision, foods, days, etc. mean nothing in themselves.

The people of God have moved from childhood to maturity and are no longer under the Law as a pedagogue.

iUseVi

wolfsbane wrote: »

You think PDN is a 2000+year old Jew? I took him for an <50 year old Irish Christian. If I'm right, he is free to eat shellfish to his heart's content.

Hey, even a 2000+year old Jew alive today would no longer be under the Old Covenant. Christ has come and fulfilled all the law, all the types and shadows, and abolished the Mosaic Covenant. He introduced the New Covenant, where circumcision, foods, days, etc. mean nothing in themselves.

The people of God have moved from childhood to maturity and are no longer under the Law as a pedagogue.

<sigh>

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

....etc.

PDN

DublinWriter wrote: »

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So you're not a big shellfish fan then, PDN?

Actually I don't like shellfish.

I fully believe that Leviticus 11 was inspired by God and was to be obeyed by the Jews of that day.

I also fully believe the teaching of the New testament as to how we should interpret the Old Testament.

PDN

iUseVi wrote: »

<sigh>

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

....etc.

Bigger sigh.

All the shadows of the types of the law were fulfilled at the Cross.

Zombrex

Akrasia wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice if the bioble was written in a clear way that was less likely to be interpreted in so many crazy ways to justify so many crazy beliefs.

Where would be the fun in that?

robindch

Wicknight wrote: »

Where would be the fun in that?

Wouldn't be half as popular if it didn't seem to justify whatever people wanted it to justify. It's almost as if metaphorical obscurantism is a necessary feature of religion, not a downside.

JC 2K3

bonkey wrote: »

Recent Estimated world population 6,666,666,666
No, really, we were estimated to have passed that point late last week, which I thought appropriate for this thread....

== Roughly 164 bytes per person.

Thats one small profile.

164 bytes is 164 characters, so you could store at least the name of every person, and maybe another few bits of info on them.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

An uncharacteristically prescient christian revelation, I must say, given that MasterCard have their European headquarters in Belgium:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/company/en/corporate/mastercard_europe.html

Their Waterloo facility houses their European network processing center, one of three worldwide, which is known internally as the "Big Electrical Appliance for Shopping and Trade". Sounds like it might be the thing your friends have heard about. It processes chip transactions and it's got a barcode glued to the side too, if any more proof is needed.

Looks like housewife Mary Stewart Relfe was onto something. My advice -- tell all your friends, then run for your lives.

Buying the latest 'Left Behind' novel? 10 euro.
Stocking bottled water in your garage? 200 euro
Setting up a survivalist ranch in Montana? 1 million euro
Learning to interpret the Bible sensibly? Priceless.

MrPudding

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That is a cheap "super computer".

No. It is not a super computer, it is a PC with lots of disk. The "super" part of super computer is in reference to its number crunching ability not the amount of disk space it has. If I attach a trailer with a 1000 litre fuel tank on it have I converted my crappy car to a super car?

It is theoretically possible that you could have enough storage attached to a PC to hold limited, or even considerable, information about every person on the planet. If you were not using Windows, you might even have a chance of actually being able to address the disk space, though not in one big partition obviously. But I would not imagine it would be of any practical use as a PC simply would not have the grunt to do any remotely useful with the data.

MrP

MooseJam

MrPudding wrote: »

It is theoretically possible that you could have enough storage attached to a PC to hold limited, or even considerable, information about every person on the planet. If you were not using Windows, you might even have a chance of actually being able to address the disk space, though not in one big partition obviously. But I would not imagine it would be of any practical use as a PC simply would not have the grunt to do any remotely useful with the data.

MrP

I'd say If you had a PC with a few terrabyte disks and SQL server installed you could quite happily access information stored on every person in the world without any problem at all, there is plenty of grunt in modern desktop PC's

Zombrex

JC 2K3 wrote: »

164 bytes is 164 characters, so you could store at least the name of every person, and maybe another few bits of info on them.

It would certainly be possible with a enterprise RAID set up.

I work with a database that stores currently approx 120 million records, each record being about a line worth of characters, along with a date and some other small information. The data takes up about 40GB of space. A database holding 6 billion records would take up about 5 Terabytes, depending on the indexes you include with that. To have any chance of finding anything in that database at any create speed you would need a large index. But 10+ Terabyte storage storage is nothing unusual these days.

On the other hand if you start getting into financial records you are talking a heck of a lot more information than that. I worked for a bank a few years ago who had a data warehouse (basically a massive collection of databases) that stored transaction information for their customers. This was a heck of a lot bigger than 10 Terabytes, cost a small fortune, and only stored customers of the bank (mostly in Ireland, UK) and only went back I think 2 years of detailed information.

(yes, I'm a nerd)

MrPudding

MooseJam wrote: »

I'd say If you had a PC with a few terrabyte disks and SQL server installed you could quite happily access information stored on every person in the world without any problem at all, there is plenty of grunt in modern desktop PC's

I have to admit, I have never had a multi TB SQL database running on a PC so I cannot comment exactly on hwo it would perform. However, I do have experience of very large, but still not the size we are talking about here, databases running on a platform that actually meets and in some cases massivly exceed the minimum spec, and there can be performance issues.

Where to begin? Processors. Yes, the proc in modern PC is indeed very powerful, but compared to a server processor it is a bit weedy. For example, the minimum spec for a SQL server in the company I am working is 4 x AMD quad core Opteron processors. Obviously this is far in excess of anything you can get in a PC. But not a guarantee it won’t struggle. Memory, our minimum spec is 16GB. PCs are getting more and more memory, but even if the capacities are the same the quality and functionality of the memory in a server is far superior to that which is used in a PC. So, all in all a fairly reasonably specced machine, but still very very far removed from a supercomputer.

Then, assuming you have the processing power you need disk, obviously lots of it. If you have a multi TB database you really need to be looking at SAN disk. Nothing else will perform well enough to allow SQL to work. Very few people have a PC with SAN connectivity.

MrP