Opinions on second gen range rover

workaccount

Hi,
I'm looking at getting some sort of SUV and I like these. Anybody know much about these machines, reliability etc.

I am thinking of getting a commercial and running it on vegtable oil.

Thanks.

Slig

general vibe I get from people on this forum is that second hand LR & RR are cheaper across the water and if its commercial then vrt shouldnt be a problem. Are second gen 70's or 80's? remember LR electrics are crap.

workaccount

Slig wrote: »

general vibe I get from people on this forum is that second hand LR & RR are cheaper across the water and if its commercial then vrt shouldnt be a problem. Are second gen 70's or 80's? remember LR electrics are crap.

Thanks very much for your reply. The second generation ones are from 94 - 2001 or something.

Yeah everything is cheaper across the water and that's where I would be looking.

bwt I would be getting a diesel but the 2.5TD is meant to be underpowered given the weight - what are the other engines like?

xt40

we have a 98 rr (p38) 2.5dse auto as a second car
the first thing to say is that we love it however there are a couple of things to note.

its not that slow but wouldnt be in the same league as a car
i would generally drive it about 50-60 on roads where id drive my car 65-80
they are really more a cruiser and are great for lugging the kids and their stuff.


mpg is about 20 avg with mainly rural driving , in and out of town etc (no traffic jams)
make sure the electronis suspension works. it should go up/down easily and reach full height in 10-15 seconds. leaky bags lead to overworked compressors that are expensive to repair
get 2 keys -> 300+ for a replacement
make sure both sides of the dash blow hot/cold air as the motors can go and are hard to replace.
if i was going to go the commercial route i might consider a 4.0 petrol with lpg.
you would get more car-like performance and similar or better running costs

workaccount

xt40 wrote: »

we have a 98 rr (p38) 2.5dse auto as a second car
the first thing to say is that we love it however there are a couple of things to note.

its not that slow but wouldnt be in the same league as a car
i would generally drive it about 50-60 on roads where id drive my car 65-80
they are really more a cruiser and are great for lugging the kids and their stuff.


mpg is about 20 avg with mainly rural driving , in and out of town etc (no traffic jams)
make sure the electronis suspension works. it should go up/down easily and reach full height in 10-15 seconds. leaky bags lead to overworked compressors that are expensive to repair
get 2 keys -> 300+ for a replacement
make sure both sides of the dash blow hot/cold air as the motors can go and are hard to replace.
if i was going to go the commercial route i might consider a 4.0 petrol with lpg.
you would get more car-like performance and similar or better running costs

Cheers for the reply. I actually would have to buy a diesel as I want to run it on veg oil. If I couldn't run on veg oil I probably wouldn't bother buying it tbh. Is there a bigger diesel engine available? How much is lpg btw...I only first heard of lpg yesterday.

I would want power in it though as I would like to tow cars and other heavy stuff.

I've never driven a RR before so I am not sure what you mean by the suspension. Does it have hydrolic suspension or something where you can adjust ride height?

Slig

dont know about the RR but the LR disco had something similar, it was meant to keep the machine level when cornering by adjusting the individual shocks. It often went wonky though, youd often see discos parked on level surfaces with one side lower than the other or youd end up driving home with the thing adjusted fully to one side. A lot of people just replaced with standard shocks

xt40

range rovers 94--> have air suspension which means that instead of springs, they have airbags like on a hgv. the ride height is adjustable from a button on the dash whth 4 user selectable modes low(access mode),motorway standard, high (offroad) and an extra high mode that is automatic if the car gets grounded and looses traction. total travel is well over a foot. the system is fairly simple and robust. its only problem is that if it develops a fault (rare), it dumps all the air out and requires a dealer reset
swapping the airbags for springs is a stupid botch as it negates the cars best trick. you can buy an aftermarket manifold for about £50 which allows you to pump each spring to your desired height from any normal air source and thereby bypass the computer/ electronics and dealer until it suits you or your pocket.
pulling is no problem. it would pull your house down.
there is only 1 diesel engine option - bmw 2.5 same as bmw 525td and opel omega of the same period. i dont run mine on veg oil but others do.

Cmar-Ireland

xt40 wrote: »

range rovers 94--> have air suspension which means that instead of springs, they have airbags like on a hgv. the ride height is adjustable from a button on the dash whth 4 user selectable modes low(access mode),motorway standard, high (offroad) and an extra high mode that is automatic if the car gets grounded and looses traction. total travel is well over a foot. the system is fairly simple and robust. its only problem is that if it develops a fault (rare), it dumps all the air out and requires a dealer reset
swapping the airbags for springs is a stupid botch as it negates the cars best trick. you can buy an aftermarket manifold for about £50 which allows you to pump each spring to your desired height from any normal air source and thereby bypass the computer/ electronics and dealer until it suits you or your pocket.
pulling is no problem. it would pull your house down.
there is only 1 diesel engine option - bmw 2.5 same as bmw 525td and opel omega of the same period. i dont run mine on veg oil but others do.

Completely incorrect re: the air suspension.
It's very unreliable and hugely expensive to put right. It's a very complicated system and is regularly removed in favor of shocks.
If buying a RR, make sure you get receipts for a recent air suspension overhaul or replacement. Otherwise budget for a new one.

workaccount

xt40 wrote: »

range rovers 94--> have air suspension which means that instead of springs, they have airbags like on a hgv. the ride height is adjustable from a button on the dash whth 4 user selectable modes low(access mode),motorway standard, high (offroad) and an extra high mode that is automatic if the car gets grounded and looses traction. total travel is well over a foot. the system is fairly simple and robust. its only problem is that if it develops a fault (rare), it dumps all the air out and requires a dealer reset
swapping the airbags for springs is a stupid botch as it negates the cars best trick. you can buy an aftermarket manifold for about £50 which allows you to pump each spring to your desired height from any normal air source and thereby bypass the computer/ electronics and dealer until it suits you or your pocket.
pulling is no problem. it would pull your house down.
there is only 1 diesel engine option - bmw 2.5 same as bmw 525td and opel omega of the same period. i dont run mine on veg oil but others do.

Ok so the 2.5td is just fairly slow (compared to a car) then but loads of torque. Is that correct? I have read that it's underpowered but does it really feel underpowered when you drive it as that's an awful feeling?

I don't really understand what you mean when you say you can only drive at 50-60 compared to where you would drive a car up to 80 or so. Surely this is just the range rover then not the engine. Would you drive one of the 4L's over 60? I would have thought when you say fairly slow...acceleration is meant?

I wonder can you get much more grunt out by chipping them?

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Completely incorrect re: the air suspension.
It's very unreliable and hugely expensive to put right. It's a very complicated system and is regularly removed in favor of shocks.
If buying a RR, make sure you get receipts for a recent air suspension overhaul or replacement. Otherwise budget for a new one.

So if you put on shocks then are you losing the capability of changing ride height? What else would you be losing out on?

What kind of money are you talking to put springs on? What kind of money for an air suspension overhaul? Just parts as I would do the work myself assuming there's plenty of tech info available on how to do it.

As I said I'm looking for a second generation as I'm on a budget. Want to keep the costs less than the 1.4 petrol Japanese car (:D:D:D) I'm currently driving around which is why I want a diesel commerical that will run on veg oil.

Cmar-Ireland

All you will loose is the ability to alter the ride height. And truth be told, how often are you really going to need that?

Air bags are around €100-130 a corner. The compressor is around €350. All are easy enough to replace if your handy with the spanners.

An air to spring kit is around the same price as a compressor. There is also a little electronic box that will fool the suspension ecu so it thinks it's working properly. Without it you get a suspension error light on the dash AFAIK.

xt40

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Completely incorrect re: the air suspension.
It's very unreliable and hugely expensive to put right. It's a very complicated system and is regularly removed in favor of shocks.
If buying a RR, make sure you get receipts for a recent air suspension overhaul or replacement. Otherwise budget for a new one.

i dont think so.
airbags can be had for £60 stg each and are a diy job to replace. pumps usually only burn out if leaky bags are not replaced and even then , overhaul kits can be had for 30£.

if you put coil springs in, it would destroy the value of the vehicle and the dash would permenantly display an "eas fault" message.

this is a link for the device i mentioned earlier to bypass the pump,manifold,eas computer and height sensors
http://www.tawpark4x4.com/parts.htm
i see the price has gone up to 79.99. still very cheap

xt40

workaccount wrote: »

Ok so the 2.5td is just fairly slow (compared to a car) then but loads of torque. Is that correct? I have read that it's underpowered but does it really feel underpowered when you drive it as that's an awful feeling?

I don't really understand what you mean when you say you can only drive at 50-60 compared to where you would drive a car up to 80 or so. Surely this is just the range rover then not the engine. Would you drive one of the 4L's over 60? I would have thought when you say fairly slow...acceleration is meant?

I wonder can you get much more grunt out by chipping them?

its a very heavy vehicle so feels slower than a car when taking off from lights, junctions but from 20mph on it is fine. ive also got a transit and it feels much faster than that, if you want a comparison.
im sure the quoted 105 mph top speed is correct but as the auto box is a four speed,beyond 80 you can feel it working hard. up to legal speeds it is fine and the auto box has a sport mode so overtaking is also fine.

when i mentioned 50-60 , i meant that this was the speed at which the car "feels" right and most economical. this morning i was rushing to get a train and had it at 80 (before 6am on a straight main road). i wouldnt have felt comfortable going much faster where in a car i wouldnt have thought twice about it. i dont think i would have felt differently with a 4.0 petrol as any 4wd has a higher c of g and will always feel less stable than a low car when at speed.

they can be chipped but ive read that the engines frequently blow up afterwards .

what kind of driving/mileage would you be doing and would it be your sole vehicle?

workaccount

xt40 wrote: »

its a very heavy vehicle so feels slower than a car when taking off from lights, junctions but from 20mph on it is fine. ive also got a transit and it feels much faster than that, if you want a comparison.
im sure the quoted 105 mph top speed is correct but as the auto box is a four speed,beyond 80 you can feel it working hard. up to legal speeds it is fine and the auto box has a sport mode so overtaking is also fine.

when i mentioned 50-60 , i meant that this was the speed at which the car "feels" right and most economical. this morning i was rushing to get a train and had it at 80 (before 6am on a straight main road). i wouldnt have felt comfortable going much faster where in a car i wouldnt have thought twice about it. i dont think i would have felt differently with a 4.0 petrol as any 4wd has a higher c of g and will always feel less stable than a low car when at speed.

they can be chipped but ive read that the engines frequently blow up afterwards .

what kind of driving/mileage would you be doing and would it be your sole vehicle?

hmmm, slower than a transit. That really puts me off. I don't understand why LL never released a P38 with a better diesel engine.

This would be my main vehicle yes. At the moment I only do about 10K a year but I can see this increasing as I am getting into different activities in my spare time.

xt40

it - (the rr) is much faster than that (the transit)
i suggest you take a test drive in both town and open road conditions and make your own mind up.

coolbeans

The Range Rover you're talking about buying is a total heap of ****e to be brutally honest. Enormously complex suspension that's guaranteed to give trouble. Back in 2000 I saw one in a garage sitting really low and asked the dealer what was wrong with it. Suspension was shagged and the SRS airbags needs replacing as they tend to go wrong too. Two thousand pounds alone for the SRS airbags. The dealer said that it was too expensive to put it right so they just let it rot away. This was five year old car at the time. Total POS IMO. If you're prepared to spend money on it go ahead but don't chip it. The engine won't last. It's strained enough as it is. It was designed for the BMW 5 Series of the time and really struggles with the RR. Putting more strain on it by chipping will just guarantee heartache.

Cmar-Ireland

Coolbeans is right. More trouble than their worth TBH. Just buy a landcruiser OP. They rearly go wrong, and if they do, parts are plentiful and therefore much less expensive to buy.
A bit of googling on the P38 air suspension will confirm the troubles.

rrv8

The P38 dse is a great motor IF you can repair them yourself and avoid dealerships
The EAS is simple and cheap to work on once you understand how it works , just replaced 4 airbags on mine which should last about 10 years for £250 and rebiult the compressor for £70 which again should last 10 years now the airbags are done , Resetting the faults codes is no problem if you have a laptop , brought a OBD cable for £27 , downloaded the software for free and can now reset it when I like .Converting to coil spring is not the way to go , for a decent set of springs will cost £350 and the shocks should be changed as well for about another £350 , and afterwards you will regret it as it spoils the whole motor and tows like cr*p
Have just towed a RR classic on a trailer with my DSE on air suspension and it is the best motor to tow with ive ever used . Forgot the trailer was even there once she was rolling and give me about 20 mpg apposed to 6-8 mpg on my V8 when towing
The DSE seems under powered apposed to the V8 but is quiet capable off good general motoring and excellent for towing

P.S at the moment I only have the choice of 3 range Rovers and the DSE on EAS gets used the most
P38 DSE on EAS
P38 4.0 on coils (sold awaiting collection)
74 classic tuned V8 beast

workaccount

Thanks rrv8. I think I would be able to maintain it myself. I'd hope most jobs could be done with a jack and axle stands as I don't have a lift.

Guys, what about the disco then? Was never really mad gone on them but I have seen a few nice disco commercials around in the last few days.

I've yet to see a commerical range rover so it may be easier to find a disco aswell.

xt40

nice to see an informed opinion posted from an actual owner. its amazing how some people can give seemingly expert "honest" opinions on message boards about many different vehicles despite never actually having owned or worked on them.
back to your question.
the cheapest option by far would be to buy a passenger vehicle in england and get it converted to commercial before vrting it. that way you only pay 50€ or so. discos are rebodied classic range rovers and are a lot more common as they were a lot cheaper when new and sold as a utility rather than luxury vehicle. ive never owned or driven one so i cant give you a comparison.

Mr. Presentable

My family have three of them. Unreliable and expensive to fix is what they said when asked.

Slig

personally I love LR but every time I change jeep and look at a disco, freelander or Range Rover I'm told to steer clear. Mechanical problems, expensive parts, too many electrics, poor economy and unreliability are all mentioned but as I've never owned one I can only pass on what I've been told
(Did have a 99 disco for a day and was affected by all of the above!!!)

Cmar-Ireland

The P38 is a great looking machine. Still very fresh IMO. Comfortable and commanding to drive, But I would never own one due to all the above comments about relability and expense.

Mr. Presentable

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

The P38 is a great looking machine. Still very fresh IMO. Comfortable and commanding to drive,.

Agreed. My sis and her hubby are keeping one for these reasons

rrv8

I think I would be able to maintain it myself. I'd hope most jobs could be done with a jack and axle stands as I don't have a lift.

For most jobs you dont need either as you can raise and lower the car with the EAS , only need a jack to raise the wheels
Just done a pair of front springs on a P38 , two axle stands , 13mm spanner , flat screwdriver , both changed in 30 mins , air springs £130 a pair delivered from the UK and good for 8-10 years as genuine dunlop , car was 11 year old on original springs , they were just showing signs of perishing so caught in time before compressor has to work overtime to keep up with leaks
Another big mistake that is made that affects the ride comfort is changing one airbag on a axle , always do a airbags in pairs on a axle