Atheist Alcoholic

Tupins

Hi there,

I don't know if anyone here has experience of a similar problem but I'm looking for advice on behalf of a family member of mine who is an alcoholic.

Basically, he admits he can't stop drinking. It's drastically affecting his life which is in total disorder and the whole family is trying to help but it's hard to know what to do. The problem is that he is an atheist and when he went to an AA meeting, they were all talking about God and how you have to give yourself over to his power in order to let him help you stop drinking. (Well this is the gist of what I understood he was saying.)

Does anyone know of somewhere he can go for help that is less 'religious'. Surely in this day and age there are alternatives. It's really meaningless to him when he doesn't believe in God. I know he wants to stop. Has anyone out there stopped drinking with the help of any other organisation or programme.

Please help.

redfacedbear

I've no personal experience of this so I'm not sure how much help this is going to be, sorry!

I've often wondered how an atheist addict could use a 12-step programme given that the programme places such an emphasis on god as part of the recovery.

The only discussion I've heard on the issue was on The Sopranos where Chris and his similarly addicted girlfriend talked about it. One of them got around it by having the AA itself become the 'higher power' that they turned to while the other one placed this power in the pledge they had to make.

Personally I believe that if an Atheist addict really wanted to engage in a recovery there would be ways to do so without god or their atheism being much of an issue.

robindch

Tupins wrote: »

Does anyone know of somewhere he can go for help that is less 'religious'.

You could try posting a request over at http://www.atheist.ie -- I'm sure this has come up before. I'm sure his doctor would also be able to help find something appropriate.

Dave!

I deleted the last few posts to clean up the thread somewhat...

I see why you moved it here Dades but tbh I'd say PI would be more helpful.

Sorry for all the moving Tupins! Your thread is now in the 'Personal Issues' forum, under 'Soc'. Hopefully that'll be its final resting place, and you'll get loads of help there mate

*moved!*

Karen_*

I'm reading Alan Carrs 'Easy Way to control alcohol' and its really good.

If I were to go to AA I think I'd just do it my own way and not bother with the religion side. Go for the support etc and see what its all about. I'm sure its very little about God and more about sorting out your life - in your own way if necessary.

brokensoul

Aa requires that you believe in a higher power. That does not have to be a god. It can be your sponser, another person, AA itself - a coffee cup for all we care!

You should get him a book called "Ill stop tomorrow" by Paul Cambell.

Tis an excellent book and deals with how to work the 12 step programme if you are an athiest.

Overheal

Ah he must be referring to the 12 Step Program. Half of which specifically demands religious faith.

He can always envision that higher power as the person he wants to become; Not God. Let his ideal self take form and give himself over to that, instead.

LaVidaLoca

try Rational Recovery instead.

I would find it really annoying if somebody said "Alchohol is an illusion, so to give it up you have to dedicate yourself to a different illusion!"

Tupins

Thanks all - some very helpful posts there.

Much appreciated.

LegacyUser

Tupins wrote: »

Thanks all - some very helpful posts there.

Much appreciated.

My dad is a fully recovered alcoholic and I never thought I'd see the day where I could say that. He had been an alcoholic since before I was born - whiskey in the morning type of alcoholic. He's not a religous man and he never went to AA. He went into St.Patricks hospital near Thomas Street. He was first rushed to James hospital after downing a load of pills and booze and they refered him. They do a 6 week detox programme and he's never looked back.
As far as I know, a Doctor has to refer you to St. Pats. I think it's quite difficult to get a bed but you could call them and inquire. Also, go talk to your local GP and they should be able to advise you. I think there's a centre in Stanhope Street too.

Best of luck, it's a long road but it can be done.

iguana

I have heard of people who have issues with AA treatment seeing psychotherapists or councilors who have experience in helping people with substance abuse issues.

LegacyUser

AA is about spirituality, not religion. As a previous poster mentioned, use sponsor, group, coffee cup etc. The premise is that the alcoholic cannot stop drinking by themselves but turns to something/someone outside of themselves to quit. Alcoholics are powerless over alcohol and so look to an outside source for power to quit.

The founders of AA knew that the majority, if not all, alcoholics would have a problem with higher powers and the chapter entitled "To the Agnostic" in the big book might be helpful. The idea of aa is teaching a new way of life without alcohol.

iguana

Stepping Stones wrote: »

The founders of AA knew that the majority, if not all, alcoholics would have a problem with higher powers and the chapter entitled "To the Agnostic" in the big book might be helpful. The idea of aa is teaching a new way of life without alcohol.

AA only has a 5% success rate, so while it's ways work for some people it doesn't for the majority. It's great that it has helped the people who it helps, but it isn't the only way for people who abuse alcohol to seek help, and the religious aspect is massively off putting to many, as is the theory that the individual is powerless to help themselves.

Fortunately there are real alternatives out there, although they can be hard to find.

kowloon

Had an atheist mate who went through it. He invented his own imaginary higher power solely for AA and restrained himself from discrediting it in his own mind. Seems to have worked for him, seems like an awful mindphuck though.

ronbyrne2005

AA say the higher power does'nt have to be god, and the higher power can be "nature", your "humanity",your "freewill/frredom to coose" or anything that works for you. All research evidence shows AA is no more likely to help alcoholics stop drinking and even without AA or any other programme, several % of "alcoholics" will stop drinking each year and in time majority of alcoholics will stop drinking without any intervention/support groups.

http://www.orange-papers.org/

Ekancone

I would wager that the problem lies not with the alcohol, but with something else in your friends life that is somehow troubling him. If you get to the source of that then quitting drink might be a lot easier. It may help for him to go see a counsellor and see if your friend has any issues from his past that he needs confronting. At the more extreme end, he may be suffering from depression of some kind, but that is beyond my remit to make a call on. Best of luck.

brokensoul

daithifleming wrote: »

I would wager that the problem lies not with the alcohol, but with something else in your friends life that is somehow troubling him. If you get to the source of that then quitting drink might be a lot easier. It may help for him to go see a counsellor and see if your friend has any issues from his past that he needs confronting. At the more extreme end, he may be suffering from depression of some kind, but that is beyond my remit to make a call on. Best of luck.

Alot of people with alcohol issues have underlying issues. I myself was abused as a child and i know that had a profound effect on me.

However, i kept thinking that if i could sort my other problems then i would be able to deal with my drinking and, in my case certainly, i had that arseways. I needed to stop drinking before i could deal with my other problems.

I have a fantastic counsellor who has really helpd me, but she really couldnt do much while i was drinking. In fact, when i began to discuss painful things with her my drinking excalated. This eventually led to the crash that caused me to seek help for my drinking.

Drink might not be this persons problem, bujt it aint helping!

Kooli

Saying you can use something other than God as the 'Higher Power' (e.g. nature, spirituality) doesn't change the fact that AA requires you to accept that alcoholism is a disease and you have no control over it, so you have to hand that control over to something/someone else.

So if THAT thinking doesn't sit well with you (either because you are an atheist, or simply because it just doesn't feel like it fits your own situation), then there is no point trying to find a way to squeeze your beliefs into the AA model, you need something different.

There are counsellors who deal specifically with addiction, and you may want to have a look at 'motivational interviewing' - a way of talking about addiction which is used by some counsellors, but also some nurses and doctors are trained in it.

Probably the best way to start is with the GP, who might refer your friend to an alcohol unit (like Baggot St Hospital if you are in Dublin)

Ekancone

Kooli wrote: »

Saying you can use something other than God as the 'Higher Power' (e.g. nature, spirituality) doesn't change the fact that AA requires you to accept that alcoholism is a disease and you have no control over it, so you have to hand that control over to something/someone else.

This is something I have huge issues with, but if it works for people, it works.

allabouteve

brokensoul wrote: »

.....However, i kept thinking that if i could sort my other problems then i would be able to deal with my drinking and, in my case certainly, i had that arseways. I needed to stop drinking before i could deal with my other problems.

Simple, but profound. Insight borne of experience is worth its weight in gold. Well done brokensoul.

Ekancone

I think people have missed the point I made.

nesf

brokensoul wrote: »

However, i kept thinking that if i could sort my other problems then i would be able to deal with my drinking and, in my case certainly, i had that arseways. I needed to stop drinking before i could deal with my other problems.

I think daithi's point was that the drink isn't the core problem, there's something else that's driving you to abuse it and that that needs dealing with. Of course you can't keep chugging back bottles of whiskey and except it all just to stop because you've sorted out "the problem", the issue is more of a long term one where an alcoholic can get off the drink for a while but because the long term cause of the problem isn't there, they end up back on it again when they hit a bad patch etc. Viewing the drink to be "the problem" can be highly counter productive. That you had to stop drinking before you could deal with the actual problems doesn't mean that the drink was "the problem" that needed fixing for you to sort things out long term.