Jerry Collins for Munster?

toomevara

Any truth in this? Apparently its a rumour doing doing the rounds in NZ...

zAbbo

Doubt it, Jerry looking for a contract with NZRU.

If he's going anywhere it's France.

toomevara

zAbbo wrote: »

Doubt it, Jerry looking for a contract with NZRU.

If he's going anywhere it's France.

Would have been an 'interesting' acquisition... On a similar if slightly unrelated topic, what's the story with Justin marshall? He's leaving the hairsprays early to go back to NZ, but I've read that the NZRU have snubbed his efforts to get a start for next season...where does that leave him (apart from apparently up the creek).

Llambed

toomevara wrote: »

Would have been an 'interesting' acquisition... On a similar if slightly unrelated topic, what's the story with Justin marshall? He's leaving the hairsprays early to go back to NZ, but I've read that the NZRU have snubbed his efforts to get a start for next season...where does that leave him (apart from apparently up the creek).

Marshall was speaking on Scrum V last night and said himself he and Lyn Jones had talked about him going back to Canterbury to play in the NPC and then be back in Swansea in time to play EDF and HC. Marshall was gonna head back to Canterbury for a while so that he could get a regular run of games due to Mike Philips and himself trying to get the 9 shirt at the Liberty. Then Philips got injured so the discussion about Marshall heading anywhere became irrelevant.

figs86

was going to dismiss this out of hand but i suppose munster must be looking for a high class back row as with foley either about to play or having played his last game, wally turning 32 in july, keogh gone to leinster and quinlan turning 34 (also in july), that leaves leamy as their only top class backrow in say 1/2 seasons time as mick o driscoll is playing less and less at 6 and more at 2nd row these days.

so i guess munster will be shopping for a backrow, if not 2

tHE vAGGABOND

Munster have a few young lads coming through in Second or Back Row. [Donnacha Ryan being the big hope, but there are a few others]

I really hate this policy of signing 4 foreigners for the provinces.

toomevara

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I really hate this policy of signing 4 foreigners for the provinces.

Not overly enamoured of it myself...

Re: marshall, and purely coincidentally, this snippet apeared in the UK Guardian today;

Justin Marshall's hopes of returning to see out his career in his home country have been dashed after the New Zealand Rugby Union revealed it could not afford the Ospreys scrum-half.

Marshall wants to play for Canterbury in the Air New Zealand Cup in August and has negotiated an early release from his Ospreys contract. But the NZRU, which has posted a financial loss in the past two years and seen numerous All Blacks heading to Europe, dealt a blow to the plans of the 81-Test veteran.

"I wasn't after anywhere near what I was on before I left three years ago," he said. "But we didn't even get to the stage of negotiating money because basically they told me they had none, so could not afford me."

zAbbo

Marshalls very public critisim of Super 14, and NZ rugby can hardly help.

He was one of the top earners 3 years ago, but had to play Test, Super, and NPC rugby to earn the same he gets at Ospreys.

He's still quality though.

Sherifu

He'd be a big signing. Doubt it though.

Crash

From the link that someone had to the independent piece on it somewhere, looks like a slow news day for the Indo

komodosp

Heard this rumour too from a friend in NZ... For whatever we don't like about foreigners coming to play in the provinces, they are even more pissed off about them leaving!

I won't be complaining if Howlett, Tipoki or Mafi scores the winning try on the 24th though...

Inquitus

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4521627a1823.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=62515-qqqx=1.asp

buck65

Would love to see it, great for Munster, a top Europena team needs great players coming in. Imagine what could be learned from Collins. I agree there should be more Irish players tried but in fairness to Munster they are not exactly bogged down with foreigners.

High&Low

The Irish Times has the rumour too, but they say Leinster...

JWAD

buck65 wrote: »

Would love to see it, great for Munster, a top Europena team needs great players coming in. Imagine what could be learned from Collins. I agree there should be more Irish players tried but in fairness to Munster they are not exactly bogged down with foreigners.

Warwick is Australian. Tipoki, Mafi and Howlett are Kiwis. Gomez is Argentinian (unless I'm mistaken) and Pucciarello is Italian.
Thats quite a number of non-Irish qualified players in the squad already. Nothing like Kiwi Exiles (Cardiff Rugby) though but substantial enough.
And its not as if Munster are short (or ever short actually) of backrowers.

This whole Collins rumour is just that: a rumour. Just like Jake White being the next Irish coach and all the sorts of shash that was viciously spread about O'Gara during the RWC in France.

figs86

JWAD wrote: »

And its not as if Munster are short (or ever short actually) of backrowers.

This whole Collins rumour is just that: a rumour. Just like Jake White being the next Irish coach and all the sorts of shash that was viciously spread about O'Gara during the RWC in France.

it may well be a rumour but as i outlined above, while munster are flush with backrows at the moment, give it 2 seasons or so and it's bye bye foley, quinlan, wallace - keogh already gone, mick o driscoll a fairly committed 2nd row now and wasnt really much of a backrow and the same for donncha ryan, while i think he impressed while playing 2nd row, didnt think much of him at 6

munster need or will need at least one, if not 2, high quality back rows - no disrespect to niall ronan and coughlan etc but it would be a step down for munster to play them regularly as they arent yet top quality players

Peter B

While Jerry is a very good player I wouldn't like to see him play for Munster. We really need some more young lads coming through the development program and putting the older guys under pressure i.e Donnacha Ryan.

bugler

Gomez is Argentinian (unless I'm mistaken)

Gomez? Who? Are you thinking of the dud Leinster were sold?

Munster need to line up at 8. Whether it's Collins (which would be a great signing), or a promotion of Coughlan or JOS.

themont85

It would make far more sense for him to go to Leinster, can cover 6/8(if Heaslip's injured) which they definately need. Don't see why Munster need him, they've great young backrowers coming through, a more out and out 8 would make more sense. Also with Kidney gone and a new coach coming in I doubt they're looking at that kind of big recruit, a new coach may have other priorities for funding. He's levering the NZRU for a new contract I'd say.

Crash

bugler wrote: »

Gomez? Who? Are you thinking of the dud Leinster were sold?

Munster need to line up at 8. Whether it's Collins (which would be a great signing), or a promotion of Coughlan or JOS.

Yeah Gomez the laughing argentinian.

Stev_o

crash_000 wrote: »

Yeah Gomez the laughing argentinian.

He played a match at least though.........even though he wasnt supposed to ....didnt even have a number on his jersey.......

Given that Munster have 3 New Zealanders already doesnt that rule out buying a 4 under the IRFU laws? Or at least having more then 3 in a match day squad

marco_polo

Stev_o wrote: »

He played a match at least though.........even though he wasnt supposed to ....didnt even have a number on his jersey.......

Given that Munster have 3 New Zealanders already doesnt that rule out buying a 4 under the IRFU laws? Or at least having more then 3 in a match day squad

Because Mafi is Tongan by birth he is not counted as an foreign player under the Kolpak agreement. This is an agreement the EU has with various other countries, which gives people from these countries full working rights in the EU. The same goes for players from South Africa, Fiji and Samoa.

In terms of EU law of the other major nations only players from NZ, Australians and Argentina are considered foreign players because of this agreement.

Stev_o

marco_polo wrote: »

Because Mafi is Tongan by birth he is not counted as an foreign player under the Koplak agreement. Which is some working right agreement with the EU. Same goes for players from South Africa, Fiji and Samoa.

In terms of EU law of the other major nations only players from NZ, Australians and Argentina are considered foreign players because of this.

Confusing stuff indeed Really is a badly enforced law

marco_polo

Stev_o wrote: »

Confusing stuff indeed Really is a badly enforced law

Its seems I was not entirely correct, its not an actual agreement more like a legal rulling. It's like Bosmans less famous ugly sibling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolpak_ruling

Podge_irl

marco_polo wrote: »

Because Mafi is Tongan by birth he is not counted as an foreign player under the Kolpak agreement.

The IRFU limits refer to non-Irish qualified players, so it still applies to Mafi.

JWAD

marco_polo wrote: »

Because Mafi is Tongan by birth he is not counted as an foreign player under the Kolpak agreement. This is an agreement the EU has with various other countries, which gives people from these countries full working rights in the EU. The same goes for players from South Africa, Fiji and Samoa.

In terms of EU law of the other major nations only players from NZ, Australians and Argentina are considered foreign players because of this agreement.

Mafi is a Kiwi (brought up in NZ and a NZ citizen in Ireland on a NZ passport) and has played 7s for NZ. He is therefore an overseas player.

Re.Gomez - Yep. Stand corrected on him. He's not in Munster squad.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Mafi is a Kiwi (brought up in NZ and a NZ citizen in Ireland on a NZ passport) and has played 7s for NZ. He is therefore an overseas player.

According to the Munster Branch website

"Because he holds a Tongan passport is not classified as ‘overseas’.
Former New Zealand U19 & U21. Played for Manawatu (2003) and more recently Taranaki (played for them against the Lions ) and was a Wellington Hurricanes squad member."


http://www.munsterrugby.ie/97_185.php

You are correct when you say he played 7s for NZ.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

The IRFU limits refer to non-Irish qualified players, so it still applies to Mafi.

But the rule is 6 per province. I doubt if the IRFU would have a leg to stand on if they tried to stop Munster/Leinster playing more than 3 non-Irish qualified players when most the Irish qualified team are tied up with Team Ireland (which could include being rested).

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

But the rule is 6 per province. I doubt if the IRFU would have a leg to stand on if they tried to stop Munster/Leinster playing more than 3 non-Irish qualified players when most the Irish qualified team are tied up with Team Ireland (which could include being rested).

Its 3 high quality and 3 medium quality, or 4 high quality in total. Munster aren't breaking the limit or anything, or signing anymore foreigners then other provinces, I'm just saying the Kolpak ruling has nothing to do with the IRFU limits as they are due to non-Irish qualified players of which Mafi is one. I doubt they'd have a legal leg to stand on if it was challenged, but Munster and Leinster can't afford to get by without the IRFU so they are not going to go against them on this issue.

louis626

Niall Ronan is a good prospect in the back row for munster. he is a true no.7 and has impressed in ML games this season

DannyMach

louis626 wrote: »

Niall Ronan is a good prospect in the back row for munster. he is a true no.7 and has impressed in ML games this season

Ronan's had a good season in the ML alright and was in with a shout for MoM for a few of them. Wallace is still a level up from him but with his injuries over the years could mean he will only be around for another season or two. That said, Ronan is as good a 2nd choice 7 as you'd want and it was a good buy on DK's part.

DannyMach

JWAD wrote: »

Warwick is Australian. Tipoki, Mafi and Howlett are Kiwis. Gomez is Argentinian (unless I'm mistaken) and Pucciarello is Italian.

Gomez (rarely) plays for Leinster.

JWAD wrote: »

And its not as if Munster are short (or ever short actually) of backrowers.

Possible back rowers for next season;
6/8: Quinnie, Leamy, Coughlan, JOS*, Ryan**
7: Wallace, Leamy

*There's talk of JOS moving on but he's always been very injury prone.
**I agree with Figs on Ryan. He's not back row material. Not that strong a ball carrier, nothing special as far as tackling goes and the same applies to work at the breakdown. He has the right skillset to become a great lock imo and I think he should concentrate on it despite the competition there.

We're not awash with back-rows as you can see.

JWAD wrote: »

This whole Collins rumour is just that: a rumour.

You're probably right seeing as he's been linked with a host of other clubs besides Munster aswell. There's been talks of a few other SH back rows aswell but all rumours at this stage.

Snickers Man

I think it's just because with his black strip, brown face and silly died white flat-top Collins bears such a disconcerting resemblance to a pint of Guinness that it's inevitable speculation will link him to Irish teams.

I bet he will be playing in NZ next season.

marco_polo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its 3 high quality and 3 medium quality, or 4 high quality in total. Munster aren't breaking the limit or anything, or signing anymore foreigners then other provinces, I'm just saying the Kolpak ruling has nothing to do with the IRFU limits as they are due to non-Irish qualified players of which Mafi is one. I doubt they'd have a legal leg to stand on if it was challenged, but Munster and Leinster can't afford to get by without the IRFU so they are not going to go against them on this issue.

Yep to the best of my knowledge they would have to get any player approved by the PAC before signing anyone, although give the quality of Collins that probably wouldn't be a problem.

I would agree that from a technical perspective if any of the provinces took a legal action against the IRFU they would be very likely be successful but since they are a part of the same body that is highly unlikely thankfully .