Welfare and Tax fraud

dragona

How would one go about reporting a business owner who employs seven people
only one of whom is *on the books*? I know this as my husband is (actually, was) the
only one of the employees paying tax and PRSI. As for the welfare, there are
two people working for cash whilst claiming unemployment -none of these
facts need to be established, we know this information for sure.

Mrs. MacGyver

You can make an anonamous report to the Department of social Welfare if they are working and signing and they will investigate. I'm not sure as to the position as regards the Revenue though.

dragona

Ok I need help and here is the deal -my husband has worked for 18 months as a restaurant manager, six days a week, 50hours per week, for ?400.Crazy but there it is -this job or no job-we have rent to pay and a family to support.

He has not had one Public Holiday paid to him, has taken no annual leave nor
been paid for it, In actual fact his employer deducted a days wages for
Christmas day as the premises was closed.

He requested payslips continuously for months and months with no result until
he lost his temper and said I needed them to show the bank in order to get a
loan.He was given a handful, six weeks worth of slips and none since.

He was sacked on the spot two days ago without notice after an argument with
his employer about how quiet the business is.He has no contract of
employment, nothing on paper at all that stipulates how many days or hours he
works. Unfortunately he is not a trade union member, and we need information as
to how to resolve this situation urgently -we are in dire financial straits
now as the rent is due next week and we have no funds. He will of course be
going to the Unemployment Offices first thing on Monday, but if anyone can
advise on a course of action I would be very grateful.

mikemac

dragona wrote: »

Ok I need help and here is the deal -my husband has worked for 18 months as a restaurant manager, six days a week, 50hours per week, for ?400.Crazy but there it is -this job or no job-we have rent to pay and a family to support.

He has not had one Public Holiday paid to him, has taken no annual leave nor
been paid for it, In actual fact his employer deducted a days wages for
Christmas day as the premises was closed.

This is gonna sound harsh but your husband is a push-over! Are the two of you Irish? I ask as I don't know any Irish person who would put up with that.

You are supposed to get a contract within 13 weeks and yet he waited 18 months and still have nothing.
The first post states he paid PRSI so yes, go claim unemployment benefit on Monday.

To report the business, www.revenue.ie and find your local centre. Ask for someone who deals with fraud and they will be delighted to speak to you. But don't say anything you wouldn't be prepared to say in a court of law

dragona

Yep my husband is a pushover and it has caused countless arguments but that is by the by. No he is not Irish but from southern Europe, jobs are hard to get these days so he maintained that he sort of had to put up and shut up.Or go and sign on, which he did not want to do.
I am ASSUMING he has paid PRSI because he has a few payslips!

mcquaid2007

u should be happy ur husband actually has a job...and not be such a busybody i say.....

mcquaid2007

or shud i say had a job....sure report them if u like but wont do u any good.....

dragona

dragona wrote: »

Yep my husband is a pushover and it has caused countless arguments but that is by the by. No he is not Irish but from southern Europe, jobs are hard to get these days so he maintained that he sort of had to put up and shut up.Or go and sign on, which he did not want to do.
I am ASSUMING he has paid PRSI because he has a few payslips!

You need to sit down and examine the situation before you do something.
You say your husband is from southern Europe but don't say what country.
Is it a member of the EU where you are allowed to work here freely? or not a member of the E.U?

If the latter(Albania?) or Romania for instance was he an illegal?
I've no problem with you reporting his employer.Your accusation will either stand or not stand-it will be investigated and if everything is above board it's fine.
If it isn't then,you get the satisfaction that some justice is being done.

dragona

[You say your husband is from southern Europe but don't say what country./QUOTE]
Actually I meant to say Central Europe Spain/Italy/France -dont really want to give too much info
Employer is Romanian, as are a lot of the kitchen staff, none of whom are declared as working.
There are a few P45s floating around in the safe and have been for a good year, no-one is paying tax or prsi because none of them have been registered as working.
Husband doesnt care about getting anyone into trouble -he just wants what he is due.
I feel rather differently.
He went back last night to ask for his weeks wages due to him in lieu of notice -he didn't get it. We are seriously in poo river.

To be honest with you,if your husband is legal,I'd call into the local Fás office and explain the situation-They will advise and your husbands ex employer should face consequences if anything is found to be wrong.

There is also the issue of the legal minimum wage to which your husband would have been entitled amongst other things possibly.
Other than that,not knowing the situation,I can't possibly comment.

yabadabado

you can send an annonymous letter to social welfare .outlining all the info you have on the employer after that its up to them to investigate.not sure if u will get very far but u wont have to go to court

dragona

Well I absolutely intend to report anything that can be reported. I cannot see why this would not be investigated -surely it is a serious matter.People are woking under the impression that they are paying tax and contributions, others are working and claiming benefits, others are working and not being declared at all, my husband worked and was not paid properly, takings are not being declared, a lot of dodgy goings on.

Bang out of order and it goes on in lots of places, and will carry on happening because nobody stands up and does anything about it.

the GALL

your right go scream it from the highest
Go down the dole
then the rent allowance crowd
then the taxman
then the immergration crowd
then the enterprise trade and employment the'll get the money back for you

dragona

DIRE straits........
Our rent was due a week ago and we have not paid it as husband was sacked on the spot with no wages paid. He has been to Welfare to apply for unemployment but everything is held up because ex employer has not given him his P45 yet. Has got P60 for 2006 and 2004 but not 2005 which is needed as wa***r of employer did not have him on the *books* therefore he has no way of proving that he worked.
Husband has only just realised that this particular P60 is missing. Unfortunately with such a miserable wage we were already living hand to mouth so no savings to fall back on.
Is there anywhere one can go for emergency help ie dosh to pay rent? We are already majorly overdrawn at bank, and are already living on toast:o

echosound

Did you go to the community welfare officer (normally in a health board/centre)? AFAIK if you are waiting on a claim to be processed (ie unemployment benefit/assistance) you can approach them for supplementary/emergency type allowance - they may be able to give you money to the tune of what UB is (around 185 a week I think) until the claim gets processed, then what happens is the social welfare office pays them back the "backdated" pay, so you will just move from the supplementary allowance over to the unemployment allowance without having to pay back any money.

Also while you're there ask them about rent allowance too, as you might be entitled to claim rent allowance. And a medical card. Get your husband to go down there first thing monday and see an officer to explain the situation, and you might get sorted for the moment.Best of luck, horrible position to be in. :mad:

dragona

Thanks for that and oh my god our rent is €800 a month, I have NO idea as to how we will continue to live if UB is €185 a week:(:(:(

echosound

Don't panic yet - IF you are a dependant and don't have any income yourself, he can claim for you too, so the amount will be higher (think somewhere in the region of 300ish? a week), and higher still if you have children as you will get an allowance for them too. You should be well able to get by on that for a while if you don't have major outgoings like big loan repayments etc.

You can also apply for rent allowance which if you are entitled to it and get it, should cover most of your rent, you'll only have to pay somewhere in the region of10 or 20 quid a week or so towards it and the rent allowance will cover the rest. Of course the criteria vary from county to county so I'm not sure if your rent is higher than what is allowed in your county, but the CWO will be able to tell you that.

Get down there first thing monday morning as all these things take time to process (forms to fill out and be approved etc), so the quicker the better. Get your husband to explain EVERYTHING to the CWO, and they may be able to do an emergency one off payment regarding the rent or at least try to rush it through a bit quicker for you. Perhaps someone will know for sure if this can be done (ie the one off emergency payment) but defo get down there first thing, and perhaps ring your bank too to see if they will extend your overdraft slightly (if you have it set at say, a 500 limit, see if you can get them to extend it by another few hundred to give yourself leeway), to give you a few more quid to play with until you get back on your feet and can sort it back out.

DOn't panic yet - do your best to sort it all out and things may just pick up right when you need them. I've been there before a while back ( the panic when suddenly losing a job, the absolute shock of having reached an overdraft limit very quickly with overdue bills having to be paid and not a single spare cent to be had anywhere) and if you just keep a level head and grit your teeth and wade through it, chances are you'll emerge the other side with a big phew and can get back to sorting yourself back out again.

For the moment, might be an idea to call all the people you owe money to (eg esb bill, bank loan, credit union, phone company,wherever) and tell them about it, and come to an arrangement to pay off your debts in weekly low amounts. They will appreciate you coming to an agreement regarding payment more than if you simply don't pay and don't let them know why.

best of luck.

dragona

Thank you so much for your detailed information.I have absolutely hit PANIC MODE. Our rent is higher than allowed, it says that if that is the case rent supplement can be denied entirely. :(:(We are already over the overdraft and the bank will not up the limit:mad:
Panic mode is because I cannot get my hands on any hard cash to buy food! I called the citizens info and the CWO is available on Tuesday for an hour!
Too much going on and I am beginning to have palpitations at night.....Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I really really appreciate it.

Athina

dragona wrote: »

Thanks for that and oh my god our rent is €800 a month, I have NO idea as to how we will continue to live if UB is €185 a week:(:(:(

How did you manage to live before your husband lost his job, you say he was only paid 400 euros for a 50 hour week. He had to work two weeks just to pay the rent and you were left with another 800 euro to feed the family and pay bills for the month. I think you would have been eligible to have applied for Family Income Support, the details I think are in the back of your Child Benefit Book.
To be honest you will probadly be better off on the dole, for starters, your husband sounds like he deserves a well earned rest from all that stress, I think you will have at least 300 euro a week in benefits, most of your rent will be paid for by the HSE, you will have medical card and be eligible for back to school payments for your children. The system is pretty much stacked against low wage earners, there just aren't enough incentives there to keep them at work and there is very little protection to stop people been exploited by unscrupulous employers.

Athina

dragona wrote: »

Thank you so much for your detailed information.I have absolutely hit PANIC MODE. Our rent is higher than allowed, it says that if that is the case rent supplement can be denied entirely. :(:(We are already over the overdraft and the bank will not up the limit:mad:
Panic mode is because I cannot get my hands on any hard cash to buy food! I called the citizens info and the CWO is available on Tuesday for an hour!
Too much going on and I am beginning to have palpitations at night.....Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I really really appreciate it.

How much are you allowed for the rent?? I know people who make a deal with the landlord for rent allowance purposes to put them down for less than they are actually paying and the tenant makes up the balance themselves. Otherwise you will be looking at a housemove and I dont think you relish an upheaval right now. If you have no food for the weekend, try contacting one of the charitable organisations like St Vincent De Paul, they will help you especially where there are children involved. It's a shame all these social services shut shop on Friday evenings.

pjproby

Your husband may have been unfairly dismissed!

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/

dragona

Athina wrote: »

How did you manage to live before your husband lost his job, you say he was only paid 400 euros for a 50 hour week. He had to work two weeks just to pay the rent and you were left with another 800 euro to feed the family and pay bills for the month. I think you would have been eligible to have applied for Family Income Support, the details I think are in the back of your Child Benefit Book.

Yep believe it or not. ESB and eircom are in arrears. One of my sons is working (untill sep when he wants to go to uni) and slings some dosh my way, but I can't really take much from him as he is working hard to save for education. I don't claim child benefit -long story as hubby doesn't believe in state handouts and I have never applied for it -he has only gone now to welfare office as things are dire -we have always been able to just wing it.He has never ever been without work before. As for the unfair dismissal, we have contacted the Employments Rights Tribunal and have lodged a complaint.....

Athina

I would advise you to contact MABS http://www.mabs.ie/. They are excellent for helping people with financial difficulty. They offer a free and confidential service and you will find they have a wealth of information to offer you. Life is too short for struggles, make use of all the help that is available to you.

MAKE MY DAY

dragona wrote: »

Yep believe it or not. ESB and eircom are in arrears. One of my sons is working (untill sep when he wants to go to uni) and slings some dosh my way, but I can't really take much from him as he is working hard to save for education. I don't claim child benefit -long story as hubby doesn't believe in state handouts and I have never applied for it -he has only gone now to welfare office as things are dire -we have always been able to just wing it.He has never ever been without work before. As for the unfair dismissal, we have contacted the Employments Rights Tribunal and have lodged a complaint.....

Claim the child benefit it is not a handout it is an entitlement. Best of luck and I hope his ex-employer gets the book thrown at him

dresden8

dragona wrote: »

I don't claim child benefit -long story as hubby doesn't believe in state handouts and I have never applied for it -he has only gone now to welfare office as things are dire -we have always been able to just wing it.He has never ever been without work before

FFS this **** is paid out of your taxes. Rest assured the super rich who pay no tax claim their freaking child benefit.

Another thing that pisses my tits off is people who won't claim the "dole" when they become unemployed. You pay PRSI when you work so you can claim benefits when your circumstances change. That's why it's called insurance. You are insuring yourself for a drop in income.

You can bet your arse when the current round of pay negotiations come about the employers will be using the 10% PRSI they pay for you as an excuse why they can't give you a bigger increase. Claim what you're due, rest assured the rich claim any social welfare and dodgy tax ememption they can get their hands on.

Apologies if my rant is not quite sympathetic enough for this thread but snobs who are too "good" to sign on really get my goat.

angelface2008

dragona wrote: »

Thank you so much for your detailed information.I have absolutely hit PANIC MODE. Our rent is higher than allowed, it says that if that is the case rent supplement can be denied entirely. :(:(We are already over the overdraft and the bank will not up the limit:mad:
Panic mode is because I cannot get my hands on any hard cash to buy food! I called the citizens info and the CWO is available on Tuesday for an hour!
Too much going on and I am beginning to have palpitations at night.....Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I really really appreciate it.

If you have nothing at all,call your local Saint Vincent De Paul,they should have a group running from your local parish church,usually meet once a week to discuss cases they will call to you and hopefully give you something to tide you over and feed your kids once they hear your circumstances,good people if you are honest with them,they helped me out years ago when my partner left me in a sticky situation,and now when I have it I support them when I can,good luck

burmo

Make sure you get all the benefits that you can and see how much you can backdate them. Try to claim rent relief, medical expenses, child benefit for as many years as appropriate - of course only what is due. This should help out a little. As people have stated - they are not handouts, they are entitlements.

Make as big a fuss as you possibly can - I am Irish, and I cannot stand this kind of treatment for employees

Best of luck - keep us updated.

the GALL

If what you say is true the next week or so will be hard.... but don't stress each other out to much all the above post are true you'll get what your entitled to. Explain the situation to your husband re: entitlements Ive been their myself and it aint even funny talk to the landlord and get some leeway it'll sort it self out ...don't forget to fcuk the employer over when your done.

dragona

Thank you all so much for the information ad advice -yes I am MEGA stressed out. I will try and get things sorted..... I will let you know what happens re employer -I am SO MAD about the whole situation I feel driven to screw him over as much as possible

Athina

Dragona - The very best of luck to you, do please let us know how you get on. Stay calm and assertive when dealing with the authorities be it revenue or social welfare. It sure looks like you have had it pretty tough and YES, I hope that horrible employer gets hammered for exploitation and tax fraud.

dragona

Well my husband went back to the SW today -Unemployment benefit cannot be paid as there are not enough contributions due to employer not registering him - The Unemployment Allowance, well, he was told by the girl there that it could take two or three MONTHS to process. I am just speechless.
He explained our financial situation -nothing they can do, it takes ages and thats it. The CWO was only available today for an hour (at the time hubby was at SW)

Ex employer may well have had a phone call or two from Revenue maybe as he rung my husband today to threaten him, and by the way the missing P60 (2006)will be available for him to collect TOMORROW. ????? This is the P60 needed for benefit to prove he worked and paid enough PRSI. Will let you know.

the GALL

The quickest way to get money now would be to get all your p60 together and ring the tax office get them to jointly asses the two of you. They will reinburse you back four years if they owe you any money.Get onto the revenue site (Revenue.ie)and see what you can claim tax back on ie: rent/bins/union etc etc they won't tell you what your entitled to, you have to tell them, they should have you sort in a week. To get money's owed by the employer try the enterprise and employment board, but that may be a can of worms your opening.
Best of luck

Linoge

dresden8 wrote: »

FFS this **** is paid out of your taxes. Rest assured the super rich who pay no tax claim their freaking child benefit.

Another thing that pisses my tits off is people who won't claim the "dole" when they become unemployed. You pay PRSI when you work so you can claim benefits when your circumstances change. That's why it's called insurance. You are insuring yourself for a drop in income.

You can bet your arse when the current round of pay negotiations come about the employers will be using the 10% PRSI they pay for you as an excuse why they can't give you a bigger increase. Claim what you're due, rest assured the rich claim any social welfare and dodgy tax ememption they can get their hands on.

Apologies if my rant is not quite sympathetic enough for this thread but snobs who are too "good" to sign on really get my goat.

I was going to come out with the same rant.

I feel somewhat sympathetic to you OP but you have left yourself wide open to this. There are hundreds of jobs out there that your husband could do for less hours which would include holidays and benefits, not to mention legitimate.

Harsher still, your husband is not a pushover, he's an idiot. How did you expect this to end? Was he forced to stay in that job for 18 months that obviously reaked from the very start? Honestly, absolutely no savings and no permenant job with a wife and at least one child in school and rent to pay -you have to question the intelligence of someone who keeps his affairs like that... If a 16 year old living at home carried on like that you might give them a pass, but a "man of the house"? Wreckless and idiotic are two words that come to mind.

As for your money situation - why not start looking for work? What have you tried already? Do you both work? Concentrate on getting your lives back in order. When that is done, then work on reclaiming what is due.

dragona

Linoge wrote: »

I was going to come out with the same rant.

There are hundreds of jobs out there that your husband could do for less hours which would include holidays and benefits, not to mention legitimate.

Harsher still, your husband is not a pushover, he's an idiot. How did you expect this to end? Was he forced to stay in that job for 18 months that obviously reaked from the very start? Honestly, absolutely no savings and no permenant job with a wife and at least one child in school and rent to pay -you have to question the intelligence of someone who keeps his affairs like that... If a 16 year old living at home carried on like that you might give them a pass, but a "man of the house"? Wreckless and idiotic are two words that come to mind.

As for your money situation - why not start looking for work? What have you tried already? Do you both work? Concentrate on getting your lives back in order. When that is done, then work on reclaiming what is due.

I feel I must respond to this .He has worked solidly for the five years we have been in this area with no problems , two legitimate, well paying (normal, not above average) and no aggravation until this one. I worked until 2 years ago, part time only as I suffer from an auto immune disease which affects my joints and gives me a great deal of pain. Business went kaput and no part time jobs to be had within town, I don't drive. I am actively seeking a job, any job.I come from an English speaking country, he does not.

I'm not 25, I'm 45 and jobs are not easy to come by -if you have one you do anything you can to keep it, especiallyif you have children to support.

I would say that yes, my husband WAS obliged to stay in that particular job, notwithstanding the negatives, as he was not able to source another.
Reckless and idiotic are not the word that come to my mind when I think of a man like my husband, more stoic than stupid -you would have no idea of the stress he was under, and it was not really relevant to my initial post.

An example - on his one day off a week, one time he did not answer a phone call from his boss, and the following day he was told, day off or not, when I call you answer or don't bother coming back to work.MAny many veiled threats, and quite blatant ones, of dismissal.Many a time he wanted to tell boss to fcuk off and drop dead but couldn't. So really his hands were tied until another job could be got.

I'm assuming that nobodoy actually WANTS to be unemployed and on the dole, if it can be helped.Maybe its a man thing, I don't know, but he feels mortified at having to claim benefits to feed his family. I have no problem with it, he does. He has worked and so have I, we are now in a mess, we need help and if it is available, we should get it. He is not a snob who is *too good* to sign on, but has just done everything in his power, even to the point of staying in a really really crappy job, to avoid it.