The Hierarchy of the Bike Helmet Hysterian Empire

monument

The Hierarchy of the Bike Helmet Hysterian Empire...

See here... http://www.copenhagenize.com/2008/05/hierarchy-of-bike-helmet-empire.html

Hermy

fergalr

The Hierarchy of the Bike Helmet Hysterian Empire...

Anyone else think that was rubbish?
Not weighing in on either side of the helmet debate (of which I see both sides), just saying that wasn't educational, or thoughtful or funny or well done etc.

Also, even though it's mostly text, it's a giant image

irishmotorist

My reasonable Internet connection has been trying to download it for the last 10 minutes so I'm about to give up (probably a bad connection from the host as everything else is flying). I can't tell yet if it's funny or not as the punchline hasn't arrived yet Regardless, I don't think I understand what they're trying to say to me! Too much wine so far probably.

Helmet wise, I'm personally a total YES because of a head bouncing incident a while back. No it won't magically deflect a bus/truck front wheel, but it could well save you a cut/graze/stiches and a headache if you come down fast.

irishmotorist

Just saw an article that made me think...

In a car, I'll always wear a seatbelt, just in case an incident occurs that wearing it will have saved my life (and cos it's the law, of course). The pure fact of wearing it while I'm day-to-day driving won't keep me alive, but it will give me extra percentage points chance of survival should somebody do something unexpected on me.

Same with a helmet.

Drapper

this topic is done to the death here on Boards.ie, lets head over to the cricket forum and tell them not to wear there jockstraps! our balls are strong enough!!

i for one would not dream of mtbing without a decent helmet!

monument

Try going to blog post and then looking at the image...

The server seams to be refusing a direct connection from here. I've also edited the first post remove the direct link. (Tho the image is large enough at slightly above 1mb)

irishmotorist

Something strange then - I've got a 4bps here and it shoudn't take that long to get a 1mb picture. Maybe all the boarders have been bombing the site and it just can't handle the pressure!!!

sy

A frustrated male Californian smoker who likes to let his blonde locks blow in the breeze oh yeah and with a slight penchant for Star Wars and probably rides a fixie:eek: Sorry guys just slagging!

bassman22

There is something about helmets though isn't there, during the good weather last week I just couldn't make myself wear one! (I usually do wear one)

bobtjustice

I'll never get on a bike without a helmet.... saved my skin a couple of weeks back..when i got introduced to a rock on some DH....

bassman22

I suppose the reason why I sometimes amn't bothered with one is that I've been knocked down twice while not wearing one, one time I didn't need it and the other I'm pretty sure it would have given me a neck injury.

Nevertheless I wear one now because I reckon most of the time its safer to have one

blorg

irishmotorist wrote: »

In a car, I'll always wear a seatbelt, just in case an incident occurs that wearing it will have saved my life (and cos it's the law, of course). The pure fact of wearing it while I'm day-to-day driving won't keep me alive, but it will give me extra percentage points chance of survival should somebody do something unexpected on me.

Same with a helmet.

Same with wearing a helmet in a car too, but I'm guessing you don't do that. As to the original post/graphic, I had a quick look, thought WTF WTF no really W-T-F and closed the window.

liamo

TBH, I can't understand anybody not wearing a helmet. The stats are all out there - read them !!

Last time I took a count there was about 25% of cyclists wearing a helmet. That's a scary percentage of unprotected cyclists. Are there any official stats on helmet usage? Anyone know?

I do remember my first time cycling with a helmet waaaaay back in circa 1990. It was brand new and brilliant-white! While cycling up Nutgrove hill, I was greeted with a "Look at yer man with the ti (that's "tit" with a silent "t") on his head - hahahahahah". If that didn't stop me wearing a helmet, nothing will !

Luckily I've no story to tell about how my helmet saved my life. But that's no reason not to wear one.

L

monument

liamo wrote: »

TBH, I can't understand anybody not wearing a helmet. The stats are all out there - read them !!

The stats are where?

liamo

monument wrote: »

The stats are where?

Monument, thank you for pulling me up on my hastily written remark. I think I had heard studies quoted so many times over the years that demonstrate the value of helmets that it almost felt like I had read those studies myself.

Anyway, in an effort to demonstrate that the stats are indeed out there for all to read I spent some time looking for all of these studies. Boy, did I get a shock!

Yes, there are loads of stats. The shock came from the number of studies that do not come to the conclusion I expected. I had no idea that there were (so many) studies demonstrating that helmets have a marginal positive safety value and may indeed have a slightly negative safety value.

My position following all that reading is that I'm not so sure anymore about the value of a helmet. I would say that I have a "neutral" position now. I'm going to continue wearing my helmet anyway.

I do, however, unreservedly withdraw my comments about cycle helmets in my previous post.

Regards,

Liam

PeadarofAodh

liamo wrote: »

Monument, thank you for pulling me up on my hastily written remark. I think I had heard studies quoted so many times over the years that demonstrate the value of helmets that it almost felt like I had read those studies myself.

Anyway, in an effort to demonstrate that the stats are indeed out there for all to read I spent some time looking for all of these studies. Boy, did I get a shock!

Yes, there are loads of stats. The shock came from the number of studies that do not come to the conclusion I expected. I had no idea that there were (so many) studies demonstrating that helmets have a marginal positive safety value and may indeed have a slightly negative safety value.

My position following all that reading is that I'm not so sure anymore about the value of a helmet. I would say that I have a "neutral" position now. I'm going to continue wearing my helmet anyway.

I do, however, unreservedly withdraw my comments about cycle helmets in my previous post.

Regards,

Liam

:eek:

Gavin

liamo wrote: »

Monument, thank you for pulling me up on my hastily written remark. I think I had heard studies quoted so many times over the years that demonstrate the value of helmets that it almost felt like I had read those studies myself.

Anyway, in an effort to demonstrate that the stats are indeed out there for all to read I spent some time looking for all of these studies. Boy, did I get a shock!

Yes, there are loads of stats. The shock came from the number of studies that do not come to the conclusion I expected. I had no idea that there were (so many) studies demonstrating that helmets have a marginal positive safety value and may indeed have a slightly negative safety value.

My position following all that reading is that I'm not so sure anymore about the value of a helmet. I would say that I have a "neutral" position now. I'm going to continue wearing my helmet anyway.

I do, however, unreservedly withdraw my comments about cycle helmets in my previous post.

Regards,

Liam

!! This is amazing. Someone who held a strong pro-helmet view, educated themselves and now has a pragmatic view. Has such a thing ever happened before in all the helmet threads across the Internet ? I think NOT !

Amazing!!

(Or else this is fishy...)

Killgore Trout

fergalr wrote: »

Anyone else think that was rubbish?

Guy should HTFU and stop playing with lego.

Harrybelafonte

liamo any chance you could post the links which made you come to this conclusion?

Ciaran500

So is that trying to say that helmets don't make cycling any safer, it makes it more dangerous or is it just against legislation that makes helmets mandatory? Its not the clearest.

liamo

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

liamo any chance you could post the links which made you come to this conclusion?

I don't have a list of the links as I was just browsing from Google search results. However, I redid a search and the following links are worth reading.

Do a Google for "cycle helmet study head injury" and follow some of the results for more reading.

Dublin Cycling Campaign Position Paper
http://home.connect.ie/dcc/docs/helmets.html

Wikipedia is worth a read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_helmet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_New_Zealand

British Medical Journal (Specifically relates to the wearing of helmets by children)
I've read a couple of times that helmet use is recommended for children but has little value for adults.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/308/6922/173

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html

Regards,

Liam

fergalr

So is that trying to say that helmets don't make cycling any safer, it makes it more dangerous or is it just against legislation that makes helmets mandatory? Its not the clearest.

This is how I would summarise it:
A bad scientist wrote a piece of opinion, pretending it was science, which stated helmets reduced head injury a lot. Others disproved this.
Someone dug out this piece a long time later, because they owned a helmet company, and it would be profitable to spread these innaccurate stats.
He convinced some people to become advocates for helmets, quoting the original flawed piece.
His advocates (having turned to the dark side) starts publishing pamphlets saying helmets are neccessary.
Lots of people believe the original piece and pamphlets and lobby for legislation.
Some good guys fight against this legislation.



So it seems to tell a story of why people who want to legislate for helmets have been deliberately misled, and why people fighting against such legislation are good.

I don't whether it's allegory to known events, or pure supposition, or just rubbish.
Not to go all wikipedia here, but it's a bit useless really without citation or reference, as for all we know it's the sort of pamphlet it's speaking out against. Seems a bit paranoid, conspiricy theory-ish with some of it's claims, without presenting any evidence. Like it's a bit of a step to say helmet manufacturers deliberately spread discredited science on purpose to create legislation, would be curious to see any proof of this.

I also didn't think it was very funny or insightful as presented. If the allegations are for real, a short page with evidence would be more useful than (somewhat poorly done, imo) starwars comic.

!! This is amazing. Someone who held a strong pro-helmet view, educated themselves and now has a pragmatic view. Has such a thing ever happened before in all the helmet threads across the Internet ? I think NOT !

For what it's worth, I always wore a helmet, so when I stumbled upon the helmet debate, I hadn't a vested interest in believing the 'no compulsory helmet' side.
Having read into it a bit, much like liamo, I'd say I have a neutral position on it, certainly wouldn't make it compulsory, but would continue to wear mine in the absence of a compelling reason not to. It's definitely not as clearcut a debate as it's often made out to be.

dub_skav

It's not a clear cut debate at all and there will always be a noisy minority on either side who think the other side are idiots.

A reasonable position seems to be a fairly neutral one with an understanding of both sides to the argument.
There are lots of helmet wearers and non-helmet wearers in the reasonable category, they have just read what protection / issues there are and adopted their own position for their circumstances.

The annoying part about these debates is the people who either have not read up on it at all and make assumptions or those who will not listen to reasonable argument at all (on both sides)

oobydooby

The original link was one of the lamest things I've ever seen. Perhaps it was clever but I didn't feel like spending time trying to get some "in-jokes".

Usually would avoid this thread but liamo's Damascus-like conversion above gives hope for internet debating.

Maybe a public poll (so you can see where others stand on the issue and flame them:p ) would be an idea.

[godfather]
Online cyclists need a thread like this every few months to help clear up the bad blood.
[/godfather]

PS I always wear one (and have sunburnt stripes to prove it) and strongly believe they shouldn't be mandatory so I'm officially reasonable.

*and I occupy a higher moral plane than both motorists and fellow cyclists

monument

liamo wrote: »

Monument, thank you for pulling me up on my hastily written remark. I think I had heard studies quoted so many times over the years that demonstrate the value of helmets that it almost felt like I had read those studies myself....

I'm just asking you to name and link to one study, can you do that?

Gavin

monument wrote: »

I'm just asking you to name and link to one study, can you do that?

Eh ? Did you read the thread? Or even the rest of his post ?

Are you being sarcastic ? Or just weird ?

monument

Actually I missed his other post after that