Connacht & Ulster

d-gal

As usual there is the typical bitchin with munster and leinster so lets see if we can get rid of that for a while and realise ireland has two other provinces :eek:
Who do you think will make the heineken cup next year around?

Personally i think connacht will with the new signings of murphy, carr, keatley and ta'auso. Connacht match anyone on their day upfront so they did need to invest in the backline which they have done already. Ulster do not seem to have recruited well so far and they have lost a lot of experience and leadership in bowe, best and humphs. Connacht now have a sudden lot of depth in the backline!

toomevara

Congrats to Connacht for a fine win over the hairsprays last night...would also echo the above comments about Munster/Leinster nonsense on these boards of late, its becoming really toxic...I reckon a moratorium on 'mine-is-bigger/better than-yours' style pissing contests would do us all a power of good....

RuggieBear

d-gal wrote: »

As usual there is the typical bitchin with munster and leinster

which you have contributed to wholeheartedly, little Miss Pot.

As for Connacht and Ulster....

Connacht need to stop coming last in the Magners League. Despite their slightly lower funding that squad of players should be getting better results.

Ulster have a decent coach now but are bringing in too many stop gap foreigners imo.

Both teams have to do much better next season.

zAbbo

It looks like both teams are recruiting well for next season, although Connacht are getting promoising Leinster back players, while Ulster have raided the SH.

Next season will be a huge one for Ulster as they are losing so many of there players (Humphreys, Bowe, Neil Best, Roger Wilson, Harrison)

d-gal

is there anyone else ulster have lost out on or other possibles leaving?

zAbbo

I'm not sure, they've signed Ian Humphreys from Leicester.

Zzippy

toomevara wrote: »

Congrats to Connacht for a fine win over the hairsprays last night...would also echo the above comments about Munster/Leinster nonsense on these boards of late, its becoming really toxic...I reckon a moratorium on 'mine-is-bigger/better than-yours' style pissing contests would do us all a power of good....

Actually it was a second-string Hairsprays side, all the big names were off in Wexford on a training camp with the Welsh team. Typical end-of-season-doesn't-matter game, both teams throwing the ball around at every opportunity, we came very close to the fourth try, the ref was useless but no one cared, they got a late try to make the scoreline look better.

+1 for no more Munster-Leinster shite...

RuggieBear wrote: »

As for Connacht and Ulster....

Connacht need to stop coming last in the Magners League. Despite their slightly lower funding that squad of players should be getting better results.

Ulster have a decent coach now but are bringing in too many stop gap foreigners imo.

Both teams have to do much better next season.

Slightly lower funding? :D Significantly lower more like.
So with lower funding than Ulster, we should be finishing ahead of them?? :rolleyes:
Give me a break....when we get the same funding as Ulster then you can start patronising us about coming last

EdgarAllenPoo

Maybe it's not a money issue with Connacht (I don't know what their budget is). Maybe it's a god awful coach, Bradley has done SFA with Connacht and if the summer tours really have his stamp on them and not Kidney's then we'll see if he's a worthwhile coach. If not, get rid of him and bring someone in who can help Connacht progress beyond 4 or 5 wins a season.

Podge_irl

They should hopefully both be in Europe after next year. Connacht have the squad to come ahead of the Dragons and get the play-off place against the Italians. They've recruited well for next year and if they get rid of Bradley they'll be looking good. For all the problems facing Connacht they should still be doing a lot better then they are, and I'm convinced Bradley is the problem.

ressem

From what I hear, Munster/ Leinster are in the 6 million budget bracket, Ulster were allocated 4.5 and overspent, Connacht are allocated about 2.5.
I overheard this while someone was giving out that they needed to get approval from the IRFU to hire players who then get snaffled by other provinces. And that players get paid more to be 3rd choice benchwarmers with Munster than play first team with Connacht.

Podge_irl

I don't think the gap is that large, at least not in terms of IRFU funding. The difference will arise moreso from central contracts of the likes of BOD and ROG. Leinster are going to have easily the biggest budget next year though given the attendences they've been getting (which is reflected somewhat in the rumoured signings).

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think the gap is that large, at least not in terms of IRFU funding. The difference will arise moreso from central contracts of the likes of BOD and ROG. Leinster are going to have easily the biggest budget next year though given the attendences they've been getting (which is reflected somewhat in the rumoured signings).

You forgotten about the new 26k seater Thomond Park and the ABs match? Munster will be broke though trying to pay for its new stadium

Podge_irl

I was more implying the money they earned this year from the stadium would be used next year. I'm sure Munster may catch up the following year due to Thomond (probably pay lower rent as well).

Actually, given that the IRFU own Thomond, did Munster pay entirely for the redevelopment themselves?

zAbbo

The IRFU budgets certainly help, but with the redevelopment of both Thomand and Landsdowne, plus a disasterous RWC, and no home HC game - the coffers might be tightening a little.

Leinster must be taking in some decent revenue with an average of 14,000 fans for home games this season, which would be roughly 3.5m in gate receipts alone...

Next year really needs to be the break through year for Connacht, and I think it will.

.[Darren]

Im a hardcore Leinster Fan, although i dont have a season ticket i go to all the games i can squeeze in while still maintaining a life, i would like to see all the four provinces succeed, infact i would love it.

I predict next year:

Leinster will retain Magners League, and reach semis in HC.
Munster will go all out in HC and reach another final and finish high in Magners League.
Connacht will not finish last they will be repllaced by Ulster.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

I was more implying the money they earned this year from the stadium would be used next year. I'm sure Munster may catch up the following year due to Thomond (probably pay lower rent as well).

Actually, given that the IRFU own Thomond, did Munster pay entirely for the redevelopment themselves?

Ahem, don't forget that Munster will earn a fair bit more than any of the other provinces for reaching the finals of the H Cup this season. I remember reading for Munster to get to the knockout stages was worth Euro 800,000. Presumably they've earned another half a million or so for reaching the semis (TV money, sponsorship) etc, not to mention all the merchandise that will be sold, 1/2 the gate receipts on the Mellenium statium etc. By the way, if they behave themselves tonight and don't get any yellows, Munster will win 10,000 in the Specsavers Fairplay League with 5 points. (FYI - Leinster 9, Connacht 11 and Ulster 14).

As regards the who pays for Thomond redevelopment - Munster rugby & IRFU are essentially one and the same when it comes to finance (so Leinster are paying for it as well*). 10 year tickets, corporate functions, local county council grants, sports grants etc. etc. are paying for it.

*- only kidding ... )

RuggieBear

I've got an inkling that the ERC actually get most of the money from the final.

Not sure where i heard that so i can't really stand over it.

Inquitus

I know the Toyota Sponsorship deal has success based payments.

Podge_irl

RuggieBear wrote: »

I've got an inkling that the ERC actually get most of the money from the final.

Not sure where i heard that so i can't really stand over it.

I think you're right. I think the biggest pay-day for teams is a home QF (and possibly the semi, not sure on that though). They certainly don't receive gate receipts for the final at any rate. I think the IRFU pocket most of whatever money is to be had as well.

As regards the who pays for Thomond redevelopment - Munster rugby & IRFU are essentially one and the same when it comes to finance

They are and they aren't. The IRFU pay for central contracts for example, but the provinces have to fund their own provincial contracts. As an example, when Shane Byrne's IRFU contract wasn't renewed the decision was made so late in the season that Leinster couldn't afford to offer him a provincial one, which is why he moved to England for a year.
If Munster are solely footing the bill it could hurt their ability to give out provincial contracts (Munster would be paying for all the foreign signings for example).


Eh, and to make this slightly on topic, I would hope that if Connacht are in line for a European spot next season, then their funding will be increased. It will do them no good to be trashed in the HEC, and it could hurt their chances of getting back in if it detracts from their league challenge.

thehighground

As far as I remember, the IRFU got the (1 million, I think) prize money that Munster won the last time. Where Munster would really have made money was on merchandise (sold 80,000 jerseys in 2006) and also sponsorship payments (which would be performance related. They would also be getting a cut being official travel agent etc. etc.).

As regards Connacht qualifying for HCup - not being competitive would do none of the Irish provinces any favours as they are kept separate from all provinces in qualifying stages. No point in making it easy for others to get into the knock-outs, like what is happening now if you have an Italian team in your group.

Webbs

thehighground wrote: »

As regards Connacht qualifying for HCup - not being competitive would do none of the Irish provinces any favours as they are kept separate from all provinces in qualifying stages. No point in making it easy for others to get into the knock-outs, like what is happening now if you have an Italian team in your group.

So from your thinking then any team that isn't upto the 'grade' shouldn't be allowed into the HC, at least Connacht would put 100% into all their games unlike say half the French teams once they can't qualify.

Surely qualifying for competitions like this would develop the rugby and get more people through the gates. If nothing else it would be a big two fingers up to the IRFU who are desperate to do anything to stop connacht qualifying and embarrassing them with their appalling lack of support for Connacht

gcgirl

Zzippy wrote: »

Actually it was a second-string Hairsprays side, all the big names were off in Wexford on a training camp with the Welsh team. Typical end-of-season-doesn't-matter game, both teams throwing the ball around at every opportunity, we came very close to the fourth try, the ref was useless but no one cared, they got a late try to make the scoreline look better.

+1 for no more Munster-Leinster shite...



Slightly lower funding? :D Significantly lower more like.
So with lower funding than Ulster, we should be finishing ahead of them?? :rolleyes:
Give me a break....when we get the same funding as Ulster then you can start patronising us about coming last

Thanks for clearing that up for me as my cousin was staying in the hotel that the team were staying in and i was like thats not the Welsh team! It was quite funny anyway!

marco_polo

Webbs wrote: »

So from your thinking then any team that isn't upto the 'grade' shouldn't be allowed into the HC, at least Connacht would put 100% into all their games unlike say half the French teams once they can't qualify.

Surely qualifying for competitions like this would develop the rugby and get more people through the gates. If nothing else it would be a big two fingers up to the IRFU who are desperate to do anything to stop connacht qualifying and embarrassing them with their appalling lack of support for Connacht

Never mind finishing above Ulster, if they had finished above the mighty Newport Gwent Dragons even once in the ML they would have played HEC rugby by now.

komodosp

Do Connaught fans get a bit pissed off that Connaught is considered a "Development" province by the IRFU? I don't know too much about that set-up but this to me would imply that any time a player gets any good he gets "promoted" to one of the other provinces, either that or they come from another province (e.g. Jerry Flannery?) and will go back there, having stood in the way of developing a native Connaught player. I would have to say that I'd be demoralised as a fan if I thought the players were there just to be developed and moved on... It would seem pretty hopeless that my team would ever get some kind of glory...

Zzippy

marco_polo wrote: »

Never mind finishing above Ulster, if they had finished above the mighty Newport Gwent Dragons even once in the ML they would have played HEC rugby by now.

Well we beat them home and away this year, unfortunately other results meant we didn't finish ahead of them. Lack of consistency I'm afraid, and losing matches in the last few minutes that we should have won.
BTW, this would be the same "mighty Dragons" who beat Leinster last week...

komodosp wrote: »

Do Connaught fans get a bit pissed off that Connaught is considered a "Development" province by the IRFU? I don't know too much about that set-up but this to me would imply that any time a player gets any good he gets "promoted" to one of the other provinces, either that or they come from another province (e.g. Jerry Flannery?) and will go back there, having stood in the way of developing a native Connaught player. I would have to say that I'd be demoralised as a fan if I thought the players were there just to be developed and moved on... It would seem pretty hopeless that my team would ever get some kind of glory...

Don't you know we're supposed to be grateful to the IRFU that they let young players come here to "be developed" - if they improve they'll go to another province, if not they can stay here :rolleyes:

thehighground

Zzippy wrote: »

Don't you know we're supposed to be grateful to the IRFU that they let young players come here to "be developed" - if they improve they'll go to another province, if not they can stay here :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone expects Connacht to be grateful (though you should be kicking up a bit about having Bradley foistered on you for 7 years at this stage). It would be better if you had your own players to develop, as at the end of the day, most players*, given the opportunity, will want to play for their home province.



* I better mention Ian Dowling as an obvious exception

Blisterman

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the term "development", in that case, was that the team was developing, and wasn't quite in the same league, as the other provinces.
Not that the team is a developing ground for young players.

Zzippy

Blisterman wrote: »

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the term "development", in that case, was that the team was developing, and wasn't quite in the same league, as the other provinces.
Not that the team is a developing ground for young players.

Nothing was ever made official, but at the time it was mooted that Connacht should be a development squad - that would imply that its purpose was to give young up-and-coming players some exposure to senior rugby and game time, hopefully with the aim of developing them to a higher standard. That was never officially agreed by the IRFU, though it seems to be unofficially the practise.

Peter B

RuggieBear wrote: »

I've got an inkling that the ERC actually get most of the money from the final.

Not sure where i heard that so i can't really stand over it.

I went to a Munster breakfast function and they were going through their income streams and amounts (I should have taken down notes). They were using it to compare to the cash available to the big french clubs.

Anyway they mentioned they do not get any of the gate receipts for the semi or final. Not sure if there is actual prize money for the winning team or just better media exposure i.e more sales of merchandice, bigger following support etc.

Webbs

Zzippy wrote: »

Nothing was ever made official, but at the time it was mooted that Connacht should be a development squad - that would imply that its purpose was to give young up-and-coming players some exposure to senior rugby and game time, hopefully with the aim of developing them to a higher standard. That was never officially agreed by the IRFU, though it seems to be unofficially the practise.

There just aren't enough quality players in Ireland to realistically have 4 regions pushing for HC or even ML honours.
So no as a Connacht follower then I am not bothered to be considered a development region if that was truly the case. There are far too many Irish qualified players getting splinters in their asses and not getting any experience at the other regions (just look at how bare the cupboard is below the current Irish 1st XV).

If Connacht had just a few more quality players in key positions then they would more than likely had HC rugby next season and possibly in previous seasons.
Wouldn't that have been more beneficial for say the likes of Keith Earls, Donnacha Ryan ( and then munster and Ireland when they return) to be playing week in week out with connacht for the last couple of seasons. When these players leave then hopefully the next batch will be in place to replace them - a little more success from Connacht would also make them a more attractive proposition to other players as well.

tHE vAGGABOND

According to the sunday papers Bradley is one of the fav's for the Munster Job..

As a leinster season ticket holder I really hope that is true

I think Connacht need a breath of fresh air. He has been there 5 years, had a good first year, with a challenge cup semi - but they have been rubbish since..

With all the players lost Ulster could be complete crap or amazing next season. We wont know until games get under way. It depends who is on the park for them, and right now that is not clear in a lot of positions.

ksir

i think a transfer that was really overlooked was Kieran Campbell from Ulster to Connaught. Connaught have never had a decent scrum half in my opinion

EdgarAllenPoo

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

According to the sunday papers Bradley is one of the fav's for the Munster Job..

God help us if that's true. Jesus that would be horrible, he couldn't teach a fish to swim never mind coaching a successful rugby team.

Webbs

ksir wrote: »

i think a transfer that was really overlooked was Kieran Campbell from Ulster to Connaught. Connaught have never had a decent scrum half in my opinion

Even better signing was Frank Murphy from Leicester so with Campbell as backup there should be no excuses at scrum half for the first time in a very long time

Robbo

ksir wrote: »

i think a transfer that was really overlooked was Kieran Campbell from Ulster to Connaught. Connaught have never had a decent scrum half in my opinion

Scrum half has been more and more of a problem over recent seasons. Personally, I was delighted when Leinster came in for Chris Keane last year. Glaciation moved the ball quicker than him.

Webbs

I've lost count of the number of times that connacht have camped on the oppos line and its been screaming out for the scrumhalf to look at other options apart from the forwards whiteline fever/pick and bash that invariably has ended in nowt.
Hopefully an experienced scrum half will bring not just improved distribution but some sort of game management to the Connacht game

escobar

Connacht's time will come . surprising about the new outhalf. It's Ulster that have alot to do .What a dismal year for them . How the hell can a team win two years previously and nearly finish bottom , incredible