Is faith human nature?

BJC

I should probably start of by saying I'm an Atheist so my opinion on this is biased in a way as may a Member of A Religion be biased in the opposing direction.

I believe that from my birth, regardless of what-ever path my life took I would have rejected the idea of God. Excluding the possibilities of brainwashing and some other clause's which I'm sure will be brought to light in this thread (because I can't deny that the mind is as maleable as rubber), I believe that nurture aside, it is in my nature not to believe.

Obviously there are many reasons I have rejected different religions from conflicting moral issue's to some religions containing utter bullsh*t (imo). But my rejection of a God, any God, I believe was inevitable no-matter what religious packaging he came in.

So do you believe that man is born Atheist and converted by society.
Or do you believe that man is born Agnostic and either finds a religion that's right for him/her or rejects it all...and if he/she does, what in his life causes him/her to do so?

Any and all thoughts are welcome!
(Mod's, I wasn't sure which forum this is for so feel free to move it, cheers)

bubonicus

I believe man is born.

RedXIV

On a modern individual i'd say that faith is NOT human nature. we are raised with an educational process that urges people to try and understand everything about the world and never to just pass it off as "divine". If this question was directed at world's civilisation a few hundred years ago, i'd say it was. Society dictates it in my opinion

Malari

That's a really interesting topic, I've often thought about it. I reckon I would have always ended up atheist too, I feel like it has more to do with my personality. I like to question and not just go along with the tradition or accepted things in society, not just religion.

Of course living in a different country might have made it more difficult for me to do so!

biko

I believe a baby is born tabula rasa and filled with the ideas of parents and surrounding adults.

Most, if not every, old civilisation has had deities. Most would have sprites/fairies and and a few would worship a single deity (like today).

BJC

Malari wrote: »

Of course living in a different country might have made it more difficult for me to do so!

I agree with you there, I've always thought that it's no coincedence that as Ireland has become more open minded, better educated and wealthier more and more atheists have emerged. I don't include in this people leaving Catholicism to follow another spiritual path based around another Deity, I mean people who actively reject every, all and any God.

Which leads me to think does this modern and more-liberal society influence atheism or does it just allow people to express a non belief they've had since birth?

Malari

BJC wrote: »

Which leads me to think does this modern and more-liberal society influence atheism or does it just allow people to express a non belief they've had since birth?

I would say it's a combination of greater liberalism allowing people to be free to think about religion and to express doubt. I definitely feel a bit reluctant to talk about it in front of some people. My bf's mother is a die-hard catholic and I feel like it would be offensive to express my views to her. Maybe if everyone else in society was like her I would be less likely to be openly atheist.

BJC

Malari wrote: »

My bf's mother is a die-hard catholic and I feel like it would be offensive to express my views to her.

+1
I have been looked down upon on more than one occasion by a staunch catholic, actaully any major world religion has elements that see us as heathens. But I'd like to think that no matter what the negative forces I would be open about my non beliefs.

So is the solution to this disdain to be found in religion or in society, does promoting a tolerant society with regards to religion even matter if the Church's shun non-believers?

Whispered

Might be useful to link this to the athiest forum as I'm sure they'd have a lot of interesting things to say on the topic?

I think people are born with no faith. It either develops or not, but I wouldn't say people are born "athiest" as they havent decided not to believe, they just haven't had any exposure to it. (Or have I got my defination of athiest wrong again?)

Malari

BJC wrote: »

+1
I have been looked down upon on more than one occasion by a staunch catholic, actaully any major world religion has elements that see us as heathens. But I'd like to think that no matter what the negative forces I would be open about my non beliefs.

So is the solution to this disdain to be found in religion or in society, does promoting a tolerant society with regards to religion even matter if the Church's shun non-believers?

I'd like to be open about my non-beliefs but I've never been directly challenged by her. It's more "with god's help the weather will be nice" kind of comments where I've bit my lip. If she ever asked me what church I go to or anything of that nature I'd be direct with her.

In my experience religious people are pretty tolerant here. It's more like they take pity on me! It matters to some more than others I think.

BJC

helena.ryan wrote: »

Might be useful to link this to the athiest forum as I'm sure they'd have a lot of interesting things to say on the topic?

I think people are born with no faith. It either develops or not, but I wouldn't say people are born "athiest" as they havent decided not to believe, they just haven't had any exposure to it. (Or have I got my defination of athiest wrong again?)

But the issue is why? Without delving to deeply into nature vs. nurture.
When one explores the reasons for this it shows "born atheism" (for want of a better term) as a possible answer.

For example, I grew up in an extremly tolerant house. My parents are Catholic but never stuffed Catholicism down my throat, in their eyes they would keep me Catholic till I was old enough to make up my own mind, and make up my own mind I did. They don't agree with my beliefs but they accept them.

So in my situation when Catholicism was offered to me in the best possible way, leaving room for questions and offering detailed (if unsatisfactory) answers why did I inevitbaly reject it all?

Because I was born this way...?

Whispered

BJC wrote: »

Because I was born this way...?

But you weren't born asking questions. You rejected it when old enough to do so, so in effect you weren't born athiest (is athiesm a rejection of god, or could a lack of knowledge of god be considered athiesm? If a lack of knowledge is athiesm then I retract my last statement :rolleyes:)

A very good friend of mine is catholic, but when you question on it deeply (not that I actually question, but we discuss) she can't say why. She believes what she was brought up to believe. This person is not at all gullible or easily led (in fact she's a stubborn as a mule) so I really don't know. Then you have some people who are brought up catholic, who turn from that to something else. It might be in their nature to believe in something.

The ones who turn away from everything, well they're obviously mentally ill

BJC

helena.ryan wrote: »

But you weren't born asking questions.

Yes but the issue is no matter what questions I asked, no matter who brought me up, no matter how my life went (except otherwise stated in my original post)...I believe I would have turned out Atheist. So in essence it doesn't matter if I was born asking questions or not because the outcome would be the same.

Or would I? Therein lies the question.:p

hiorta

"But my rejection of a God, any God, I believe was inevitable-nomatter what religious packaging he came in." Thread original post by BJC.

I'm wondering what religion has to do with 'god' or what 'god' has to do with religion?

BJC

hiorta wrote: »

"But my rejection of a God, any God, I believe was inevitable-nomatter what religious packaging he came in." Thread original post by BJC.

I'm wondering what religion has to do with 'god' or what 'god' has to do with religion?

In the context of growing up, God is delivered to you in the form of Christianity, Judaism etc.

hiorta

A Universal God must be equally impartial to all life at all times.

The 'god' that is claimed to be taught and explained as education is nothing more than a doctrinally conditioned partisan phoney figurehead, bearing no resemblance to an all-loving, inpartial Deity.

A real God needs neither praise, worship, nor vast armies of competing theologians constantly raking in, but never accounting for, huge sums of money.

Overheal

You are born with a sense of wonder. Before very long you wonder about where your house came from; the grass; the sky; the sun and the moon. Then you ask yourself about the space in between and what lies beyond that. And then you ask yourself who or what created all of that?

In my own opinion religion starts as the culmination of the popular opinions as they have trickled down through the ages. Currently I think every answer we have is still speculative. Even science to some degree. Its just the human thirst for the answer: why are we here?

BJC

Overheal wrote: »

You are born with a sense of wonder. Before very long you wonder about where your house came from; the grass; the sky; the sun and the moon. Then you ask yourself about the space in between and what lies beyond that. And then you ask yourself who or what created all of that?

In my own opinion religion starts as the culmination of the popular opinions as they have trickled down through the ages. Currently I think every answer we have is still speculative. Even science to some degree. Its just the human thirst for the answer: why are we here?

+1
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Faith is born of questions which are born of the things around us. Which points towards faith, in a manner, coming from birth.

But what about about the impoverished and desperate? What about those who turn to God as a response to the horror of their lives. Take the tenement generation in Ireland of the 20th and early 21st century. I think it's fair to say that the near unanimous faith in the population then is inextrivcably linked to social and econmoc conditions.

So that seems to not come from birth.
Why?
Different type of people? Different type of faith?

SkepticOne

I think the capacity for religion is innate although that religion can take many forms. The evidence for this is that no tribe or culture seems to exist without some belief in something beyond ordinary reality. Even secular movements like Communism seem to take on irrational religious aspects eventually with cults forming around their leaders.

Of course, it doesn't mean that there's any truth to these beliefs just that the humans seem to have evolved the need for them. I think it is like the capacity for language. We all have this capacity although the languages differ.

Joe1919

I just came across this lately at http://www.ncsociology.org/sociationtoday/v52/steve.htm
The author states
" I suggest that there are fundamentally three sources of meaning that people draw upon to construct an overall sense of meaningful existence:
1. emotionally intense relationships with others,
2. work and leisure activities, and
3. convictions to idea systems."
I guess faith would fit into the third category and some kind of faith or belief system is preferable if we want to give our lives some meaning.
Of course, it can be argued that 'ideas' are not part of nature but something we conceive ourselves. But, it is in the nature of the human to conceive and construct her/his enviorment and her concept of herself and her world.

Akhead

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
- Marcus Aurelius

Dagon

It's unfortunate, but the organised religions in the world, and all the dogma and books that they espouse, have now pushed people so far away from god. People don't want to be associated with any of that, and rightly so... But a lot of people don't even want to try and find god anymore, and it has become a bad word, because it is always directly related to the "doctrinally conditioned partisan phoney figurehead" that Hiorta mentions.

So that's why I sometimes like to use the word nature, love, peace, or the source instead of god.

You don't need to believe anything to find god, you don't need a book. You can be an athiest, christian, jew, hindu, satanist, or whatever else you choose to call yourself. It can't stop you from connecting with god if that is what you want to do, and if you travel to the right place...

kelly1

Overheal wrote: »

You are born with a sense of wonder. Before very long you wonder about where your house came from; the grass; the sky; the sun and the moon. Then you ask yourself about the space in between and what lies beyond that. And then you ask yourself who or what created all of that?

In my own opinion religion starts as the culmination of the popular opinions as they have trickled down through the ages. Currently I think every answer we have is still speculative. Even science to some degree. Its just the human thirst for the answer: why are we here?

Hello Overheal,

I agree with the first part of the above.

I think it's very clear that there is a faculty within each one of us that causes us to question the meaning of our existence and how we came to be. For as long as I can remember I've always been interested in spiritual matters even though my parents showed very little interest in religion. From the earliest times man has believed in a spiritual world and life after death.

Now if the human being is composed of nothing more than atoms (albeit a complex arrangement) why does he have a mind which is able to conceive of an infinite Deity? I will never understand how people can accept that intelligence, emotion, logic etc can be the product of a matter.

What is life? I think it's a lot more than electrical impulses in the brain. I believe the body is animated by a spirit. It gives the body life.

Regarding the second part, I don't think monotheistic religions were born of popular opinion. From what I know, and I'm open to correction, the idea of a single God was revealed by God to His prophets. Then the inner workings of God were revealed by Christ.

To answer the OP, I think the desire to seek God is innate otherwise we wouldn't be asking these questions on this forum. Why does every known culture have a belief in spirit? The early pagan religions were an attempt to connect with the Creator but they got it wrong because God hadn't yet revealed Himself to the Jews.

If the search for God weren't innate, I think religion would be a thing of the past. But we still worship God despite our technological advancements and modern comforts and conveniences. I think a large majority of us would find life meaningless unless Being.