Wearing the uniform and speaking Irish

Lockstep

Ok, this will sound like an odd question but is there any rules regarding speaking Irish while in uniform?

Myself and a friend of mine usually head up the barracks speaking Irish, but I'm wondering is this is frowned upon for any reason (might make foreigners feel unwelcome seeing defence forces members speaking a language they are less likely to understand or whatever)

Most of the regulations in the DF have yet to be pointed out to me aside from a general booklet outlining drug testing etc, so I'd really appreciate any feedback on this.


Again, sorry for asking what must be an odd question.

well, up until the reorg a few years ago, E coy, Complacht Na bhFiann,20th Batt, FCA was exclusively Irish speaking, all instruction given through Irish.
I think this was the case with the 1st Batt, PDF, at least until the 1940s.

If I rememeber correctly, the lads in E Coy, 20th, also wore a special badge to signify that they were Irish speakers.

cushtac

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Ok, this will sound like an odd question but is there any rules regarding speaking Irish while in uniform?

Myself and a friend of mine usually head up the barracks speaking Irish, but I'm wondering is this is frowned upon for any reason (might make foreigners feel unwelcome seeing defence forces members speaking a language they are less likely to understand or whatever)

The suggestion that personnel should not speak their own language in order to make foreigners feel more welcome is absurd.

Deleted User wrote: »

well, up until the reorg a few years ago, E coy, Complacht Na bhFiann,20th Batt, FCA was exclusively Irish speaking, all instruction given through Irish.
I think this was the case with the 1st Batt, PDF, at least until the 1940s.

The level of proficiency in Irish varied dramatically within the company, some were very good & some had practically zero.

Deleted User wrote: »

If I rememeber correctly, the lads in E Coy, 20th, also wore a special badge to signify that they were Irish speakers.

Only those who qualified for the fainne got the badge.

cp251

Well considering that Galway city is one of the few bigger towns in Ireland where you will routinely find people unselfconsciously speaking Irish in pubs, supermarkets, in the street etc. People like yourself in fact. There would never be a problem in Galway, army or no.

The real issue is that you asked the question in the first place. This indicates that for all the efforts to make the language part of our lives, part of our soul. We still have a niggling doubt about Irish.

I remember an incident a few years ago in my then job. I was in the locker room. There were two Africans either side of me conversing in their language. Presently one apologised to me for 'rudely' talking across me in their language instead of English. I told him not to apologise and I expressed the wish that I could speak my own native language as well. He was astonished that I could barely speak Irish. I felt embarrassed then.

But when you think about it. It is a disgrace that after all these years that most people can only speak token Irish and those that do, like my wife (a Galway native) are half afraid to speak it or rarely get the chance.

I was on Rhodes for a holiday a couple of years ago. For centuries it was occupied by the Turks and then the Italians who both made a serious attempt to eliminate Greek as a language. Guess what language they all speak now?

We should be ashamed of ourselves really. Irish is our language. In this day and age every man woman and child should be bilingual.

Lockstep

cushtac wrote: »

The suggestion that personnel should not speak their own language in order to make foreigners feel more welcome is absurd.

I'm not saying it SHOULDN'T be spoken, I was just enquiring if there was any rules

cp251 wrote: »

The real issue is that you asked the question in the first place. This indicates that for all the efforts to make the language part of our lives, part of our soul. We still have a niggling doubt about Irish.

There were rules for so much stuff in the reserves (how to hold your hands behind your back etc), I was just hoping to clarify so as not to get in any trouble (none of the regulations have been pointed out to us yet, I wouldn't even know it's wrong to wear a uniform off duty but for boards, not that I would of course)
I'm fairly new to this country (lived abroad for 12 years), so am unsure as to a lot of things.

I have no problem speaking Irish at all (do so in public often), but wanted to clarify as to speaking it in uniform (as when in the uniform you're obviously respresenting something)

Thanks folks.

cushtac

If you're not sure of the rules & regs you should be asking your NCOs, not people on the internet.

Lockstep

cushtac wrote: »

If you're not sure of the rules & regs you should be asking your NCOs, not people on the internet.

Seems slightly trivial to bother an NCO with, see them rare enough and the ones I do see regulerly, are usually rushed off their feet. But yeah, I take your point.

Does anyone know of a site listing DF regulations in general?

cushtac

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Seems slightly trivial to bother an NCO with, see them rare enough and the ones I do see regulerly, are usually rushed off their feet.?

So if you get bad advice & do something wrong are you going to tell them that nameless punters on the internet told you what to do?

It is the job of your NCOs to train you, but they're not psychic so if you are not sure of something you should ask them. The NCOs should not be too busy to do their jobs.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Does anyone know of a site listing DF regulations in general?

The DFRs are restricted & cannot be found on the internet.

Lockstep

cushtac wrote: »

So if you get bad advice & do something wrong are you going to tell them that nameless punters on the internet told you what to do?

Hardly, I'd accept the blame for doing wrong myself.

It doesn;t seem the biggest issue TBH, if it was something of seemingly more importance then yes, I'd ask an NCO (as I do with most of my querys).

If I got told off for speaking Irish in uniform, I'd accept it and move on.


EDIT: found DFR for the RDF, was in the links at top of the page, cheers Hagar.
http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/regulations/R5.pdf

Hagar

kickoutthejams wrote: »

If I got told off for speaking Irish in uniform, I'd accept it and move on.

If you do, just PM me, I'll fly back, shoot him, then you.
Only half joking. Report him up the line and hang him out to dry.

arybvtcw0eolkf

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Ok, this will sound like an odd question but is there any rules regarding speaking Irish while in uniform?

No there's no rules preventing you speaking Irish anywhere in this country, in or out of uniform.

Fair play to ya, I wish I could do it.

cp251

You know there was a time when Irish was used as a code on overseas deployments. So speaking Irish was very much favoured. It still is. No one will ever tell you not to speak Irish in uniform.

It was said that the army stopped using Irish when it was realised that the Israelis were learning Irish to listen in the net during the early days in the Leb. The anecdote I heard was that a couple of officers were off duty in Israel chatting away in Irish when they were interrupted by an Israeli speaking fluent Irish!

Having Irish is a great thing when are abroad. You can chat away knowing that no one else understands a word you say. (Except in Israel LOL)

V Bull

Deleted User wrote: »

well, up until the reorg a few years ago, E coy, Complacht Na bhFiann,20th Batt, FCA was exclusively Irish speaking, all instruction given through Irish.
I think this was the case with the 1st Batt, PDF, at least until the 1940s.

If I rememeber correctly, the lads in E Coy, 20th, also wore a special badge to signify that they were Irish speakers.

I was a member of said unit, joined in the early 1970's and as said by Dursey all instruction etc was in Irish.

No one should frown on anyone speaking Irish, on the contrary, those that object should be reported as Hagar says.

Slan

Lockstep

cp251 wrote: »

Having Irish is a great thing when are abroad. You can chat away knowing that no one else understands a word you say. (Except in Israel LOL)

QFT.

All the times I was abroad, chatting away in Irish to other people so that locals couldn't understand.

Ah yeah.

Groovy times.

minidazzler

kickoutthejams.

I Kinda hate you now!!! It sounds like you speak Irish very well! and while I can speak it at an Above average level I am not brilliant at it so...I dont like you not.

[/jealously]

Hagar

Back in the 70's I was investigated by the FCA/Special Branch as being a member of Na Fianna because from day one I carried out all simple drill instructions before they wre explained to us. The usual crap training methodology of the day, give the order - watch the confusion - bollick the unfortunates. The investigation was called off when I was hauled in front of the CO to explain myself and simply stated that I could understand what the NCOs were saying when they gave the orders in Irish. There were some very red faces when they realised the foolishness of expecting every Dub to be ignorant of their native language. I could have joined Complacht na Vaseline as I had a Gold Fainne but my best mate couldn't speak Irish well enough and our friendship was more important. Has much changed?

segaBOY

Saw a sign in the mess at Longford Barracks, some PDF NCO was offering Irish classes if there was enough demand-FAIR PLAY TO HIM

segaBOY

Hagar wrote: »

Back in the 70's I was investigated by the FCA/Special Branch as being a member of Na Fianna because from day one I carried out all simple drill instructions before they wre explained to us. The usual crap training methodology of the day, give the order - watch the confusion - bollick the unfortunates. The investigation was called off when I was hauled in front of the CO to explain myself and simply stated that I could understand what the NCOs were saying when they gave the orders in Irish. There were some very red faces when they realised the foolishness of expecting every Dub to be ignorant of their native language. I could have joined Complacht na Vaseline as I had a Gold Fainne but my best mate couldn't speak Irish well enough and our friendship was more important. Has much changed?

We had a Corporal on camp (well he was actually a private just given the stripes for the 2 weeks) who couldn't give any orders in Irish. Just said stuff like "march" and "eh....stop I mean stad" and it was our fault for being all over the place...yeah he was a dub but I presumed every unit had one??

Good work on Na Fianna...didn't know it was illegal to be a member mind but republican boy scouts with berets and sunglases is a bit secret I suppose

Hagar

I wasn't a member of Na Fianna, they thought I was. Bloody idiots.

segaBOY

Hagar wrote: »

I wasn't a member of Na Fianna, they thought I was. Bloody idiots.

I wonder if many FCA members where wrongly accused during the troubles of being affiliated with illegal orgs.

I have heard of IRA volunteers using the FCA to help their training, prime example would be Sean South being a membr of Infantry in Limerick during the 50s and subsequently going on to be an O/C in the IRA, before the Provos I know but still.

Lockstep

minidazzler wrote: »

kickoutthejams.

I Kinda hate you now!!! It sounds like you speak Irish very well! and while I can speak it at an Above average level I am not brilliant at it so...I dont like you not.

If you saw my written Irish all that jealousy would disappear. My written Irish is godawful.


my spoken Irish is good enough sure but it's very much an ingrained thing, I just know if something is said a certain way or not, would be useless at explaining about tuiseal ginideach etc.
Spoken Irish just comes from speaking it to my old man I guess.