accuracy? me or gun??

fish slapped

Lads brought me cz (527 varmint , the one with the kavler stock, in .223, med. to heavy barrel with 1 in 9 twist) to the range the other day to check zero and using A.E. 50 gr. ammo at 100mts on 8 consecutive targets she printed the first 2 shots one on top of the other:D and the third about half an inch to the left :(but on the same horizontal line. Would Ibe right in thinking its the rifle that causing this third shot to wander every time and if it is whats causing it , Bedding?, trigger?, barrell? me??
again any ideas welcome.

.243

very simple way to find out,give it to someone else to fire at a target,9/10 its the shooter not the gun

fish slapped

.243 wrote: »

very simple way to find out,give it to someone else to fire at a target,9/10 its the shooter not the gun

its the consistency of it that made me think it was the gun , 8 targets all printed the same and always the 3rd shot that strayed . now dont get me wrong I'm happy enough with the gun as it is, for its role as a foxer, but if there was something that I could tweek to fix it , you know your self we always want that last little bit!

Sparks

It doesn't sound like the gun I'm afraid fish
How are you setting up for each shot?

meathstevie

Sounds like you're bang on for foxing anyway. If you're able to consistently place every round onto a 3" by 3" target at 100 metres there won't be too many foxes getting away from you.

johngalway

Hate to disagree and not wishing to start anything, but, for a foxing rifle you should be getting groups of under one inch at 100 yards.

FS, try some Hornady ammo. It doesn't sound like it's the gun to me either to be honest, more like the shooter, but that's not ment to be critical of you.

meathstevie

Point taken John, I was just thinking about the size of foxies rib cage....

fish slapped

johngalway wrote: »

Hate to disagree and not wishing to start anything, but, for a foxing rifle you should be getting groups of under one inch at 100 yards.

FS, try some Hornady ammo. It doesn't sound like it's the gun to me either to be honest, more like the shooter, but that's not ment to be critical of you.

Sorry John , but I think you may have misread it , 2 shots on top of the other and the 3rd is 1/2 an inch to the left = 1/2 inch groups even with the strayer. Also with these groups and the ammo costing €12 per box its ideal for foxing.

patbundy

fish why dont you try different makes of ammo

.243

or you could try a heavier bullet like a 69gr,it being a 1in9 twist it mightnt be stablizing the lighter 50-55 gr.

foxshooter243

.243 wrote: »

or you could try a heavier bullet like a 69gr,it being a 1in9 twist it mightnt be stablizing the lighter 50-55 gr.

the 1:9 twist in your 223 will stabilise 40 grain thru to 69 grain easily-
are the first 2 shots from a cold clean barrel? , most rifles need a couple of fouling shots first before you try for group size and you must use the same bullets for fouling as you would to test the load-then i would shoot a string of seven with two minutes between shots to let the barrel cool-after that youll see how your rifle groups.three shots doesnt tell you much about the performance of a load-you should really shoot 5 groups of 5 to get an average but a string of seven statistically should tell the tale.

bunny shooter

Simple AE ammo is cheap, & crap in some guns. Try Hornady or Remmy Accutip these should group half inch consistant if you do you're bit. You really do get what you pay for.

fish slapped

Have bought a couple of boxes of sako 55gr power points today to try out. So we'll see.
I'll try strings of 7 and the barrell was allowed to cool between each string of 3, again its a varmint barrell so it does'nt heat up much witha string of 3, but the barrell was not cleaned between strings

fish slapped

bunny shooter wrote: »

Simple AE ammo is cheap, & crap in some guns. Try Hornady or Remmy Accutip these should group half inch consistant if you do you're bit. You really do get what you pay for.

have tried the remmy and no cz I have owned (5) have liked remmy , the hornady are to expencive for my tastes when (once again ) this cheap ammo IS grouping 1/2 inch or less.

foxshooter243

fish slapped wrote: »

Have bought a couple of boxes of sako 55gr power points today to try out. So we'll see.
I'll try strings of 7 and the barrell was allowed to cool between each string of 3, again its a varmint barrell so it does'nt heat up much witha string of 3, but the barrell was not cleaned between strings

how many shots have been through the barrel? maybe its not run in yet
most rifles need some barrel run in before they show their best groups,
anyway clean the rifle ,fire 2 foulers then test with a string of seven-slowly-that will give you a true reading of the load-one of my rifles will shoot high and left on the first 2 shots then settles down...

patbundy

funny i got worst groupings from remmy accutip than their umc brand.

bunny shooter

fish slapped wrote: »

have tried the remmy and no cz I have owned (5) have liked remmy , the hornady are to expencive for my tastes when (once again ) this cheap ammo IS grouping 1/2 inch or less.

AE out at 200 yds is crap. My only advice is buy hornady or accutip. If you bought a 223 for cheap ammo you will be disappointed with it's accuracy and long range (200-250) abilites

bunny shooter

foxshooter243 wrote: »

how many shots have been through the barrel? maybe its not run in yet
most rifles need some barrel run in before they show their best groups,
anyway clean the rifle ,fire 2 foulers then test with a string of seven-slowly-that will give you a true reading of the load-one of my rifles will shoot high and left on the first 2 shots then settles down...

+ 1 except I fire groups of 3

foxshooter243

bunny shooter wrote: »

+ 1 except I fire groups of 3

a 3 shot group may look great but its not representative of the ammo or the rifles ability-a statistical survey has shown that the least amount of rounds you can fire and have the greatest level of confidence that it can be repeated is seven into one group.;)

johngalway

fish slapped wrote: »

Sorry John , but I think you may have misread it , 2 shots on top of the other and the 3rd is 1/2 an inch to the left = 1/2 inch groups even with the strayer. Also with these groups and the ammo costing €12 per box its ideal for foxing.

I was referring to meathstevies post

Gerri

fish slapped wrote: »

have tried the remmy and no cz I have owned (5) have liked remmy , the hornady are to expencive for my tastes when (once again ) this cheap ammo IS grouping 1/2 inch or less.

You are shooting an off the shelf rifle, you are using low cost factory ammunition, you are using three shots to determine accuracy, you are shooting half inch or under groups. What is the problem? You have very high expectations from the equipment and method you are using. If I had that set up I would be enjoying my hunting with a very consistent half moa rifle and not worrying about the rifle not putting all three into one hole. You have a gem of a rifle, just shoot it and enjoy it or you could give yourself brain strain by trying all the suggestions from other posters. I suppose you could shoot more rounds at the targets to see if the group size is maintained at a half inch although if you use it primarily for foxing you are unlikely to need a second shot if the rifle is that accurate. ENJOY IT.

fish slapped

I know I'm expecting a lot but dont we all, and if there's a simple, fix why not. the barrell is well shot in and the reason I shoot 3 shot strings is because it a hunting gun and what happens with the 4,5,6,&7 shot need not matter , to test its potential I shot 8 seperate stringsand take an avgerage which was 0.22 of an inch , at 200mts its still sub 1 inch. but again if I can get more from her why not.

bunny shooter

fish slapped wrote: »

I know I'm expecting a lot but dont we all, and if there's a simple, fix why not. the barrell is well shot in and the reason I shoot 3 shot strings is because it a hunting gun and what happens with the 4,5,6,&7 shot need not matter , to test its potential I shot 8 seperate stringsand take an avgerage which was 0.22 of an inch , at 200mts its still sub 1 inch. but again if I can get more from her why not.

How good do you expect ? This is exceptional from a std factory rifle with factory (in this case crap) ammo

Vegeta

bunny shooter wrote: »

AE out at 200 yds is crap. My only advice is buy hornady or accutip. If you bought a 223 for cheap ammo you will be disappointed with it's accuracy and long range (200-250) abilites

I have to say I find this ammo really accurate in my tikka varmint .223. I know its cheap and nasty but I have shot it at 300 yards (at apples, oranges etc etc) and it was grand.

Next time I'm out I will do some groups at that distance and see how I get on

foxshooter243

fish slapped wrote: »

I know I'm expecting a lot but dont we all, and if there's a simple, fix why not. the barrell is well shot in and the reason I shoot 3 shot strings is because it a hunting gun and what happens with the 4,5,6,&7 shot need not matter , to test its potential I shot 8 seperate stringsand take an avgerage which was 0.22 of an inch , at 200mts its still sub 1 inch. but again if I can get more from her why not.

if you can get that average on a seven shot string its first class and would be hard to beat with handloads;)

bunny shooter

Vegeta wrote: »

I have to say I find this ammo really accurate in my tikka varmint .223. I know its cheap and nasty but I have shot it at 300 yards (at apples, oranges etc etc) and it was grand.

Next time I'm out I will do some groups at that distance and see how I get on

Really, Tikka make a good rifle but they're better than I thought

Fair dues :cool:

quackquackBOOM

try resting your cheek on somthing on the stock your head might be to low

fish slapped

Sorry guys, scope scope scope! :eek: using "nasty little air gun scope " spoke to rifle smith today and now looking for a leupold, any one want to swap. OR what are the 30mm swifts like

bunny shooter

fish slapped wrote: »

Sorry guys, scope scope scope! :eek: using "nasty little air gun scope " spoke to rifle smith today and now looking for a leupold, any one want to swap. OR what are the 30mm swifts like

Swift - don't bother :eek: IMO

Sandy22

fish slapped wrote: »

.........(1) the reason I shoot 3 shot strings is because it a hunting gun and what happens with the 4,5,6,&7 shot need not matter , (2) to test its potential .............

You need to make up your mind what you're trying to do.

If it's (1) the second & third rounds should be fired at a fast-moving target a good bit further away than the first.

If it's (2) pay attention to what Foxshooter says; he knows a lot more about this than you do.