Should I pander to his Jehovah's Witness brainwashing BS?

LegacyUser

Hi all. I’m a regular poster but going unreg for this. My relationship has a problem that some of you might find ridiculous but trust me, it’s very annoying for me.

I get my tarot cards read sometimes. I enjoy it and I’ve had things I’ve been told come to pass too. I see no harm in it, but my brainwashed boyfriend does – BIG TIME! He spent several years in the mind controlling cult of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, otherwise known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Anyways that's the background as to why I have no time for this group or their nonsense beliefs; here’s my question – My sister recently bought me a deck of tarot cards and I’m looking for advice on whether or not I should give two fingers to his ‘beliefs’ by reading my tarot cards and telling him to mind his own business? Or should I read them in private in order not to create waves in my relationship?

Tarot cards are strictly prohibited by the JW’s (straight from the devil blah blah) and so freak my partner to bits, but his freaked out behaviour just annoys me now and, much as I love him, I just wish he’d cop the fuk on and snap out of the brainwashing.

Sorry about the length of this post and thanks if you got to the end.

i-digress

If he hides his religious worship from you, hide your tarot cards from him. If not, don't. Everybody is allowed freedom to pursue whatever spiritual path they find helpful as long as it harms noone.

i-digress

The use of the word 'pander' is telling though. Doesn't seem like you're very tolerant of his beliefs either.

NoQuarter

break out the cards! its his beliefs not yours so do whatever the hell you want!!

btw just as you think his beliefs are stupid (i agree) i also think tarot cards are ridiculous, like c'mon...really think about them, they are cards made in a factory.....how can they tell the future hahahahahahahaaha, yous both need to cop on!

now if you'll excuse me ive just seen a magpie so im off to find another one...

The_Minister

Firstly: You read Tarot cards, believe they tell the future, and think that his beliefs are BS?

Secondly: If your boyfriend believes that reading cards is wrong because his religion says so (and AFAIR it is strictly prohibited in the Bible, ask in the Christianity forum for a definitive answer), then you are basically asking him to change his religion for you. That's a big ask.

Thirdly: he thinks that his girlfriend is having congress with the devil (I think thats what that means anyway;)). You can't really blame him for being worried, since his religion explicitly states that the power for those cards comes from Satan. If you have some "tree spirit" or something that you believe makes them work then tell him and he might listen (doubtful), but if you think that they just happen to work, without knowing how, then he is going to worry.
If I found out that my gf (no, I don't have one atm), was sacrificing sheep to Satan, I would be very, very worried. From his point of view, you are doing something similar, you are communicating with the Devil, so he is going to be worried about you.

Also the JV's aren't a cult. They are a religion. People can have awkward religious beliefs without joining a cult.
You just have to decide if this issue is where you want to make a stand in your relationship, or how important Tarot Cards are to you.

axer

Is he still a Jehovah Witness?

LegacyUser

i-digress wrote: »

If he hides his religious worship from you, hide your tarot cards from him. If not, don't.

This is good advice i-digress, thank you. I wont continue with the thread however because my original post has been very heavily edited and is missing at least 50% of its text, which means I cannot convey the details of this situation adequately. Thanks also to everyone else who posted.

DemocAnarchis

I wouldn't call them a cult, but some of the behaviour of the JW/Watchtower organisation is very distasteful, have a look at this article on shunning.

However, anyone who honestly believes in the power of tarot cards is right up there with any JW.

Reading them in private is ridiculous, a relationship wont work if you arent open with each other. Sounds like you need to have a pretty frank talk about each other's religious boundaries.

Overheal

Oil and Water. Try to respect eachother's religious boundaries. Calling his beliefs bull**** is a bit off.

PeakOutput

DemocAnarchis wrote: »

However, anyone who honestly believes in the power of tarot cards is right up there with any JW.

+1 if you are the reason for him leaving the religon or even had the slightest input into it then i really think you should be more sensitive to his beliefs seen as yours are just as ridicolous. if you have never brought up your opinion of his beliefs then he shouldnt bring up his opinion of yours but i doubt thats the case

Victor

brainwashedbf wrote: »

I wont continue with the thread however because my original post has been very heavily edited and is missing at least 50% of its text, which means I cannot convey the details of this situation adequately.

I'm sorry, but the middle of the post wasn't a PI - it was a rant.

Carrigart Exile

why as a devout JW is he consorting with a pagan like you? Or is he picking and choosing what bits of his religion to enjoy?

axer

Carrigart Exile wrote: »

Or is he picking and choosing what bits of his religion to enjoy?

like most catholics do.

Nevyn

You have to persue your own path and if tarot a tool for you to do that then fair enough but you have to be prepared for that to mean you will part ways from the relationship you are in.

Don't take such actions out of spite, given his back ground he could well be very concerned for you and your well being and while acting out of love and your best intrest do things that in the long run neither of you are happy with.

I woudl say if you use of tarot is for fun then it's not worth it, if you are using them as part of your personal spiritual development then you have choice to make.

LegacyUser

Ignore any advice along the lines of "it's his religion - you gotta respect it." Nope. You don't - not if it stops you from doing something perfectly innocent and harmless. Religiously inspired behaviour needs to be assessed as behaviour, pure and simple. Not given a free pass cos "it's his religion, innit." And remember, if he's like this about pieces of coloured cardboard, just suppose, sometime in the future, you two had a kid needing a blood transfusion......

Might sound harsh but ditch him now - he's perfectly entitled to practise his religion - just let him do it with somebody who doesn't mind unreasonable curbs on her behaviour - you obviously do. Go, girl.

LegacyUser

Victor wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the middle of the post wasn't a PI - it was a rant.

I apologise if it seemed that way Victor, that was not my intention. I was trying to give a full and frank account of the results of research I undertook in response to a recent experience I myself had with the JW's, which lead me to discontinue the practice I had kept for years of respecting his beliefs.

To answer one question: No, I had nothing to do with him leaving the JW's. He was disfellowshippped (or excommunicated as the Catholics would say) and had been shunned for years before we met and still is to this day.

The tarot is something I would always have considered as a spiritual tool as you say Thaedydal, but as far as he is concerned it is straight from the devil and I resent his imposing his beliefs on me. We argued about this recently when he walked in on my sister doing a reading for me. I dont think this tarot business is worth trashing an otherwise good relationship for, but as I say, I do resent him telling me what is and isnt appropriate for me to be doing since I am a grown woman and have a mind of my own.

Thank you for that A T ist. It wasnt what I wanted to hear but you have a very valid point. The thoughts of any child of ours needing a blood transfusion makes my blood run cold because I know what his response would be to that.

Thank you all for the replies.

Redpunto

If one person in the relationship has serious religious beliefs and the other half doesnt i would think it would be nigh impossible for the relationship to work.

DublinWriter

I've had personal experience of a cousin of mine getting 'lost' to the JW's.

Cutting a long story short, these guys are nothing but a cult and are bad news.

She recently came out of an abusive relationship and moved in with one of her fellow JW's who was in a similar situation.

Their local JW chapter kicked both out them out as they were 'living in sin' and tried to brainwash my cousin to get back with her violent and abusive ex-husband (a non JW'er, BTW).

They have a pernicious way of drawing those with past abusive childhood histories to their cause in a way that makes the recruitment methods of the Scientologists and the Moonies look positively amateurish.

Just be aware that his induction into the JW cult does not just apply to him, he will increasingly try to draw you into their belief-system by degrees.

JuliusCaesar

As an atheist I have to say that all beliefs are just that - beliefs. There's nothing wierder about JW than there is about Catholicism. (Transubstantiation? Torture as icon etc etc) It's just that we are more used to one than the other. However, these beliefs are fundamental to a person's values and so disagreements aout religion are just as disruptive to a relationship as beliefs about politics (if strongly held) or finances or childrearing. I couldn;t have a relationship with someone who was a Tory, a spendthrift, or a child-beater...but these are things I have strong beliefs about. Most people seek Significant Others with similar values to themselves.

PS what's a cult?
a small religion.

Christianity started off as a cult.....

jellie

To me it sounded like the OPs bf was just "freaked out" by them, she didnt say he forbid her to use them.

My bfs family is JW & he spent a few yrs with it. he doesnt practice anymore but still has some of the beliefs. a discussion on tarot cards came up sometime & he kinda freaked me out a bit with what he was saying about them! (sorry cant remember the details)

Anyway, if i was in your position i would use them but just not flaunt the use of them openly. id have no problem with telling the bf i was using them but at the same time try be respectful of his feelings about it.

DublinWriter wrote: »

Just be aware that his induction into the JW cult does not just apply to him, he will increasingly try to draw you into their belief-system by degrees.

Bullsh*t & generalisations. It might be specific to your cousin, but I have been in very close contact with a family of JWs for nearly 2 yrs now & never ONCE have they done ANYTHING to draw me into their beliefs. i respect that it is their religion & they would talk openly about having to do their reading for the evening, or going to the hall or whatever is happening on that day but nothing more than that is said. I have had discussions with my bf about things like the no blood transfusions but these have been initiated by me, never by him.

Just because someone is a JW doesnt make them evil..

Sangre

Well both your beliefs are utter nonsense. Its laughable how you can get on a high horse about his 'silly' beliefs. That glaring issue aside if he is your bf why don't you have some respect for his beliefs. I wouldn't use the crucifix as a dildo in front a catholic partner because I don't set out to purposively offend people.

The issue differs though if you had always been doing the practice and he only recently freaked out about it.

The_Minister

Sangre wrote: »

Well both your beliefs are utter nonsense. Its laughable how you can get on a high horse about his 'silly' beliefs. That glaring issue aside if he is your bf why don't you have some respect for his beliefs. I wouldn't use the crucifix as a dildo in front a catholic partner because I don't set out to purposively offend people.

The issue differs though if you had always been doing the practice and he only recently freaked out about it.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
My mother would tell you that your tongue is about to turn black.

Sangre

i should have qualified that without reason. I'll often try and shock/offend people if I think it will highlight a point i'm trying to make.

Lockstep

Sangre wrote: »

I wouldn't use the crucifix as a dildo in front a catholic partner because I don't set out to purposively offend people.

YOu're one sick mofo:D


Ok OP, I'm no fan of the Jehovah's witnesses but surely a medium can be reached here. He's worried about you and while it's your decision it might be best just to do it in private.

Although TBH it's amusing your complaining about JW brainwashing while touting tarot reading (involving using cards to predict things). They really are just both based on faith.

Dave!

Sounds like ye are both made for each other OP. Both strongly believe in absolute nonsense, and both intolerant of the other's nonsensical crap. Consider marrying, so that yer crazy beliefs are limited to one set of offspring and not two.

Lockstep

DaveMcG wrote: »

Sounds like ye are both made for each other OP. Both strongly believe in absolute nonsense, and both intolerant of the other's nonsensical crap. Consider marrying, so that yer crazy beliefs are limited to one set of offspring and not two.

Woah, woah there mate.


Regardless of your personal views on them, rubbishing both of their beliefs is hardly helping her.

Dave!

Probably true...

OP I would say that if you're unwilling to respect his religious beliefs (calling him brainwashed is not respectful), then you shouldn't expect him to respect yours. Relationships are about compromise, so tell him he'll have to accept your tarot cards if you do them when he's not about and you'll have to accept his JW stuff as long as it doesn't involve calling you demonic or whatever. If neither of you are willing to compromise then I can't see it working.

But as I think was mentioned earlier, if ye stay together in the long-term, this will rear its ugly head again when it comes to children, etc. I'd say get out now and don't bother with this.

BTW I don't know how you sustain a relationship like this when you clearly have so very little respect for your boyfriend.

Lockstep

I agree with DavemcG.

If you're both so strongly feeling on different aspects of faith, problems will arise.

Sangre

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I agree with DavemcG.

If you're both so strongly feeling on different aspects of faith, problems will arise.

Very true, he will probably want the child baptised under Mars and not Venus. Thats an arguement waiting to happen.

Nevyn

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Ok OP, I'm no fan of the Jehovah's witnesses but surely a medium can be reached here. He's worried about you and while it's your decision it might be best just to do it in private.

Although TBH it's amusing your complaining about JW brainwashing while touting tarot reading (involving using cards to predict things). They really are just both based on faith.

Nope they are based on symbolism, numerology and Psychology, no faith or belief in any gods required.

Jigsaw

I think that your relationship is destined to fail and that this particular episode is just one symptom of the much greater problem which will arise again and again.

I think that both of your beliefs are mad in the head but at least yours doesn't have such serious consequences as trying to deny a dying relative a blood transfusion. How people can choose to believe that turd is beyond me.

Absolute incompatibility. I reckon split up before there is too much emotional investment in this relationship.

JC 2K3

Thaedydal wrote: »

Nope they are based on symbolism, numerology and Psychology, no faith or belief in any gods required.

What? To be a Jehova's Witness, one needs to believe in a god, and if someone think that tarot cards can tell the future then they certainly have a strong belief in something supernatural. Symbolism, numerology and psychology? What? For a start, numerological divination is entirely based on faith/superstition, and I don't know what you mean by symobolism and psychology in this context...

Lockstep

Thaedydal wrote: »

Nope they are based on symbolism, numerology and Psychology, no faith or belief in any gods required.

Tarot reading still relies on faith (that the tarots are able to predict)


I also don't recall mentioning God(s) in my quote either.

mormank

without reading any of the replies, just the op. you seem to have absolutely no respect for your boyfriend's beliefs and therefore a lack of respect for him...i see this as being a major problem in the first place. i do not think you should just use the taot cards and give the finger to his beliefs. this will cause unwanted problems imo

Nerin

holy crap.where to begin. ok, to the personal issue.
ok, while i dont agree with your BFs religious beliefs, you can still respect them and have your own. unfortunately, his beliefs dont really allow him to be so understanding. still, two wrongs dont make a right. if you want your freedom, either sit him down and tell him "stfu not everyone follows/believes what you do" and try and work around it together.
if not, its dumping time.
you yourself could also do with a reality check, and im not talking about your beliefs. Your own behaviour needs an update. Just because you believe/follow/whatever something that some people see as cool,hip or whatever, doesnt mean its any less stupid. you are also making genuine nice people that do the same as you do seem like jerks, as unfortunately people have the habit of lumping everyone together.

ive been in relationships with people from other faiths, or who have other beliefs and although at times they clash, if ye really love eachother ye can work it out.it just takes a bit of work.

i hope ye can and do.

as for everyone else saying either jehovahs witnesses/tarot people are idiots or weird, how is that helpful? start a discussion elsewhere. taking your own grievances into a PI isnt very nice or helpful.

end rant

Beruthiel

OP.
I am an atheist and pretty intolerant of all religions, tarot cards and JW included, nothing more than a bunch of fairytales imo.
I certainly would find it very difficult to have a relationship with someone who was very religious, the heated debates would eventually wear them down.

Differences in religion between partners can work, but a lot of time they can become an issue, especially if children are involved or you do not respect each others views.
Clearly, neither of you respect each others views.
Do you expect that to change?
Will you come to respect his views on this? Will he come to respect yours? If not.....

milod

Beruthiel wrote: »

OP.
I am an atheist and pretty intolerant of all religions, tarot cards and JW included, nothing more than a bunch of fairytales imo.

+1

OP, although your indulgence in Tarot is lightweight compared to the Watchtower Crew, it still puts you in the wacky beliefs category.

The delusion that Jehovah, Tarot, even Magpies can have some sort of influence over physical events is frankly worrying.

Though to be fair, I'd consider a relationship with a Tarot card reader whereas I'd run a f*****g mile from a JW

LegacyUser

Right, I’m going to explain what happened to provoke me to alter my tolerance and respect for his JW beliefs since it is an issue for many of the posters responding here. I hope this account of events will be acceptable to the mods:

Recently I decided that, while I had always been respectful of his beliefs (including never buying him Christmas, Valentines or birthday gifts, and never complaining that I got none from him either etc) I did not believe them myself, but I began to wonder. I began to ask myself whether or not I was just being closed-minded and to wonder whether or not these people really did have ‘The Truth’ as they call their organisation. I decided to take the ‘don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it’ approach and invited them into my home for bible study sessions. (During this time my partner had to make himself scarce since he was still being actively shunned by these people – I should have seen the writing on the wall there, huh?)

Anyway, during one of these sessions one of the women turned to me and said: “Evolution is clearly nonsense since cats can’t turn into dogs”. I said: “Sorry? What do you mean by that? Darwinian Theory concerns the adjusting of any given species over very long periods of time to adapt to its surrounds in order to survive and thrive, it has nothing to do with one species morphing into another”. She just ignored me and changed the subject, but it was very clear that she didn’t know what she was talking about, and that what she was saying was based on the beliefs she’d been raised with, having been born and raised into a witness family herself. I thought to myself, this organisation is actually indoctrinating its members with serious misinformation.

Anyway, I let that one go, just sort of filed it away in the memory banks and thought if I heard anything else that bothered me I’d be adding it to the list. So anyway a few weeks go by and I’m sitting on my sofa with the same woman reading from the JW bible and we come across Luke 23-43, which in her bible read - “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in paradise”

I don’t know if what’s wrong with this will be immediately apparent to anyone reading this, but on hearing it, it was immediately apparent to me because I used to do the readings at mass when I was a young girl. I’d heard this line a thousand times, but I’d never head it with the pause in the wrong place before. The moment she left I picked up a copy of a regular Christian Bible I had lying around the place and checked the two bibles together for a Luke 23-43 comparison. The other bible read, as the Christian Bible always has: “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise”

That experience provoked me to do a lot of research on the JW’s, and I came across a wealth of very disturbing information concerning deliberate mistranslations of the bible contained within their ‘new world translation of the holy scriptures’. (i.e. they do not believe in the orthodox Christian view that those deserving of it go to heaven immediately upon death, hence the meddling with the punctuation beside the word 'today' in Luke 23-43) Their translation has been denounced by notable scholars worldwide. Here is just one example, a letter to the JW’s from Princeton scholar Dr Julius Mantey, author of ‘A Manual of the Greek New Testament’, and I was kind of shocked and yet relieved to read in this letter, about ten lines from the end of page two, that this man also had something to say about the mistranslation in Luke 23-43:

http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/1manteyletter.html

Now look, I don’t bloody well know if the Bible is the word of God, but what I do know is that I wouldn’t be interested in entrusting my spirituality to any group which has clearly mistranslated its text to suit their own ends.

As for the tarot cards; I’ve been doing some thinking since yesterday and have just begun my research into them, because this experience has taught me one thing – you never bloody well know what you’re getting yourself into till you do your research!

Beruthiel

brainwashedbf wrote: »

you never bloody well know what you’re getting yourself into till you do your research!

That can be said for everything.
Seems to me you are going through what most people do when they start to question their 'blind faith' which they have had towards something because of how they were brought up.

While you're at it, research how exactly the bible was written too.

JC 2K3

brainwashedbf wrote: »

Now look, I don’t bloody well know if the Bible is the word of God, but what I do know is that I wouldn’t be interested in entrusting my spirituality to any group which has clearly mistranslated its text to suit their own ends.

Lol, good luck finding a "correct" translation/interpretation of the Bible.

Beruthiel

Would this be a good time to suggest that the OP have a look at the Atheist & Agnostic Forum
You can register and debate to your hearts content the finer points of any question you may have.

Hrududu

Have you spoken to him about it beyond the initial argument? Each to his own I say. You can pick holes in what he believes and he can think that Tarot cards are evil. Either you agree to disagree or one of you has got to give.

Marksie

I have read this thread and must say that the religious angle has clouded what the issues are.

In my consideration this is the same as any couple with strongly held values, on any subject.

If a compromise situation cannot be achieved, if acceptance of one by the other is not possible and vice versa. Then the relationship must come to an end, it will go nowhere and ultimately will be destructive to all involved. this will be particularly the case where a third party i.e children, become involved..it is all to easy to envision situations where there will be an irreversible clash of wills with the child in the middle

In the end its as simple as that OP.