good play bad play.

mormank

ok question. fundamentally can a 'play' be considered a good play if you do it for the complete wrong reasons and it turns out that it was the best way you could have played the hand. e.g. flat calling when a guy from the BB re raises your EP raise when you have kings and you are worried he has aces. then u flop top set and get it all in against what turns out to be his 9 10 off and a flopped str8 draw...

as it happens in this example you would not have gotten any more money if you re raised pre flop but the only reason you played the hand this way is cos you were too scared to make the raise...

YULETIRED

If you think someone has As becuase they reraised your KKs ...you should fold, and then probably consider giving up the game and taking up something like pot making or flying a medium to small kite. wearing protective goggles in case the string snaps and takes the eye outa ya..

you are jesting here aren't you? no? really? wow....in case you are not joking, I would consider this as bad play....

does this not belong in the dirty filty theory section ?

RedJoker

You're kinda asking two questions here.

1) You can make the best play situationally (like checking to induce on the river when it turns out he has a missed draw) but it can be the wrong play (if there's more weak made hands in his range, or he's more likely to call with worse then bluff air, etc.).

2) In strategy threads the purpose isn't to guess the right play, a lot of hands don't even have an answer. If there was a way of knowing the actual correct play and you managed to guess right it's pretty pointless. Your thought process is the important part.

lee_arama

This is straight outta plusev.net. Folding KK cos you *know* he has AA. Unreal.

Ladies Lounge is in the Rec section.

mormank

YULETIRED wrote: »

If you think someone has As becuase they reraised your KKs ...you should fold, and then probably consider giving up the game and taking up something like pot making or flying a medium to small kite. wearing protective goggles in case the string snaps and takes the eye outa ya..

you are jesting here aren't you? no? really? wow....in case you are not joking, I would consider this as bad play....

does this not belong in the dirty filty theory section ?

no not jokin im afraid. i work with a guy who played the irish masters main event. this was his exit hand. he said he didnt re raise pre flop in case he had aces or ace king and an ace popped up...i mean talk about having a negative attitude. in doing so, flat calling the raise, he also gave great odds to the third player in the hand.

now whilst discussing this with my mate glenn he said that he liked the way the hand was played cos he thought it was the bes tway of egttin maximum extraction. then we had an argument cos i said no it wasnt well played or anything like it cos the only reason he flat called pre was in case he had aces or ace king, therefore, imo no matter how the rest of the hand plays out it is incorrect.

point, imo you cannot stumble upon the correct play, for it to be considered good play

pgodkin

but if a king comes out on the flop, the player with the kings can't be put on that hand cause in a tourney like that it prob he would have pushed pocket kings pre-flop? no?

if a king doesn;t come off and your sure the other hand is beating yours he should be able to get away from the hand! wheather its kings vs aces or 22s vs 33s

luck is catching cards, the skills come's getting away from them!!

this is where live vs online differs you pick up on more in a live game! i think but then again im a nitt!!

mocata

I had heard there was plenty of dead money in the IO, now i see wot they mean! If that really was his thought process then he shouldnt be sat at a poker table. Amazing he made it out of bed actually, if he sees things that bleakly!

pgodkin

mocata wrote: »

I had heard there was plenty of dead money in the IO, now i see wot they mean! If that really was his thought process then he shouldnt be sat at a poker table. Amazing he made it out of bed actually, if he sees things that bleakly!

Well maybe the player picked up a tell on this guy, maybe he was one of the "Pub Players" who was so scared of all you high rollin pro's at the tourney that he wouldn't even condisder a move unless he had Ace's you know these pesky "Pub Players" the only other hand that never lose'sBeside AK is AA's!!

He should have got away from them, if your not goin to trust your read, why are u at a live poker table!! You might as well go live online grinding the 1,2 euro games with your hand histories, and gigs of player data hero is 34/33/bla bla bla

come into the real world think about it this way, that boy did have Aces and the other boy couldn't get away from them even though he knew he had them!! that would be the more worrying thing about that suituation!!

mocata

I take your point,there are certainly a few situations where you could fold kings pre-flop. The players thinking behind it was though, "OOeerrr, ZOMG he re-raised me, he must have aces, what if he has ace king, what if an ace comes on the flop, what if the sky falls on my head?!? Nothin mentioned about reads. image, blinds, level, table flow etc.

5starpool

Something like that happened me at the 150 game in JP's festival at the weekend.

A couple of limpers at 100/200 and I raise with KK to 1025. I get reraised to 2025 (jp's rules allow this) by a limper. I call. Flop comes 9 high. He checks, I bet 3k, he makes it 7k. After a swear or two and a think I go all in for 13k, and he instantly mucks.

Chances are given this if I had reraised preflop he would have folded whatever rubbish he was playing with. I think I may have butchered the hand a bit myself by confusing myself at times, but in the end it went something like 'Ah it'll turn into acrapshoot early anyhow, get a stack or go home' instead of 'does he really have aces?'.

nhughes100

There's another thing to consider that the op should have done, what type of player are u up against? If you're playing someone loose and eccentric who's playing every 2nd or 3rd hand they there's an argument to be made for playing your trip Kings against a possible straight draw.

I'd agree with most of what's been said already, you may get lucky but as Sklansky's theory tells us you will get caught out in the long run. Like we all love catching the 5th card for a flush or straight but we all know the odds are against us. Depends on pot odds V card odds type of player, your situation(short stacked etc). There are no correct ways to play KK in every possible scenario without taking these other things into consideration.

mormank

mocata wrote: »

I take your point,there are certainly a few situations where you could fold kings pre-flop. The players thinking behind it was though, "OOeerrr, ZOMG he re-raised me, he must have aces, what if he has ace king, what if an ace comes on the flop, what if the sky falls on my head?!? Nothin mentioned about reads. image, blinds, level, table flow etc.

reads. this player with the 'aces' was active. i never thought for a second he had aces. but i didnt see my mates kings. thought he was just tryin to flop
a set with 9's or tens or summit liek that

mocata

I meant from your mates perspective, seemed like his thought process had a few gaps in it Its an interesting question though, have noticed quite a lot that people who start playing hold'em frequently get a good result v early, Then when they start to learn a bit, they over-adjust to the tight side. Sometimes you can nearly judge how long someone has been playing by the things they say and how they explain hands to you.