Hurling in Leinster

future_plans

After the discussionin the Westmeath - Wicklow MHC thread, I thought I would submit a new thread on the overall state of hurling in the so-called "weaker counties" and gt peoples opinions on how much the responsible county boards and Leinster Council are actually doing to facilitate the games growth.

Firstly, while I am a big football fan, no other sport comes near hurling in my opinion and my frustration continues to grow at the way certain circles in the GAA seem to be content to mess the sport around at a grass roots level (in certain counies I may add). It drives me mad when I hear all this gallant and grand talk of restructuring the All Ireland into an open draw or bringing Galway and Antrim into Leinster and so on. None of such proposals would work when there are already fundametal problems with the commitments of various county boards throughout Leinster and further afield in relation to the pomotion of the game. Without first addressing these, a large scale reorganisation of the games would be knee jerk and foolish.

Point One: Westmeath v Wicklow in the Leinster Minor Hurling Championship (one of the most important competitions in the country). Wicklow turn up without a full team (due to various reasons), they play half a game and do not reappear for the second half. My heart goes out to those players who played through that first half. However, the Wicklow county boards handling of the situation was abismal. Why would any young fella want to play for Wicklow after that shambles? Even the knock on effect from that has probably set them back a few years.

Point Two: Meath v Laois again in the Leinster Minor Hurling Championship. Laois turn up on Saturday evening to play at one venue. They wait around for 45 mins and then hear the venue has been changed to somewhere 20 miles away. They refuse to travel. The Meath team refuse to come back or play at some third comprimise venue. Another Leinster Minor Hurling shambles. Why would any young fella bother their arse!?!

Alright, one might say I am over reacting. But it is pretty clear to me that while such unorganised nonsense is occuring the in the provinces permier juvenile competition, anyone who thinks that some reshuffle at senior level is going to make any difference is away in lala land!

Thanks for yer time as always ladies and gents!

Pride Fighter

There are some reasons to be optimistic about Leinster hurling. In recent years Westmeath, Kildare and Carlow senior teams have significantly closed the gap on the weaker Leinster AI teams. Kildare made the Ring cup final last year and Westmeath have won that competition every time they have entered. At minor and underage grades all the Leinster teams are improving. Admin failures have nothing to do with the actual playing standard which is improving constantly. Another reason to be optimistic is seeing the Dublin senior hurling team in Croke park in a Leinster final this year:) (hopefully).

future_plans

I take your points pride fighter. I do agree that there has been some improvement in the game in those mentioned counties. However, I wouldn't be optimistic on their continuing progression if simple admimistration tasks to facilitate the running of the minor (and other juvenile) championships is correctly provided.

I think Dublin is a separate task than the rest of the province. I really do hope we see (and expect to see) Dublin in the Leinster final this year. I also hope to see them catching Kilkenny on the hop in the next few years and actually winning Leinster. It is great to see young lads around Dublin with hurls in their hands.

But in the other counties, while much work is being done in some clubs I feel that some county boards in particular are ignoring their responsibility to the game. Their are many excellent young hurlers in clubs in these weaker counties would have no county commitment because their feel the board as no commitment to them and their wellbeing. And who would bame them given the two shambles already in the minor championship this year.

Yes there are some reasons to be optimisitc. But without a proper foundation, I can't see it following the solid progression that it should. And this issue is as old as the GAA in many counties.

wixfjord

I dont think Leinster hurling is in as bad a state as it was. Hopefully Dublin will come through with that fantastic minor/u21 team and challenge at least. Wexford and Offaly are rebuilding and this will take a couple of years yet. As you say Kildare, Westmeath and Carlow are all after improving a lot in recent years. I do think that there is a stigma attatched to Kilkenny though. Take Wexford for example, we go to Croker in july most years and expect a beating, but hope for a win. If we are going in early august to play a quarter final etc (Tipp, Limerick and Waterford in Nowlan Park spring to mind) we think we can win! Theres an awful lot of psychology to it.

5ForKeeps

Hopefully from my point of view the likes of my home county(Wexford) and others in Leinster can step up to some sort of level that we can compete with Kilkenny and provide a sterner test for them in the Championship as it's been all too easy over the last decade apart from a couple of hiccups.

john concannon

I think they need Galway in the Leunster campaign even if all our games were away or at a neutral venue.Galway are wasted in the qualifiers.I really hope Offaly emerge as a threat to Killkenny this year.They see to be the sleeping giants of Leinster.

Wolfhillbilly

I wouldn't share your pessimism about Leinster hurling. In fact I think Leinster is the most progressive province in terms of hurling and Liam O'Neill will be a bad loss to you in terms of promoting the game in the weaker counties. I hope he is still involved even though he is not Leinster chair anymore.
Leaving aside the two shambles this year in the MHC, it is the best championship outside the Munster SHC. 10 out of the 12 counties compete, it is seeded so that the teams at the botton end of the scale don't meet the likes of Kilkenny, there is a huge round robin element which means that every side gets at least 3 or 4 games, those that are off the pace still have something to play for because there is a shield competition - I think it is an excellent competition. I wish Ulster would follow suit, while Connacht is just a disgrace. Hurling will only develop in a county by producing competitive underage teams, which in turn can only be produced by playing decent games during the summer. No amount of mucking around with the senior structures in the McCarthy Cup will make a team competitive. We need a system where every county plays three or four games in the minor championship - which Leinster has.
This is the reason why there were no Leinster teams in Division 4 of the NHL this year, which is quite an achievement considering Leinster accounts for over one-third of the country. The only two teams in Division 3 were Louth and Longford, the rest were in 1 and 2. Incidentally, Louth and Longford are the only two teams who don't compete in the Leinster MHC and are the only two in the Rackard Cup. Coincidence?
The difficulty with promoting hurling is that it takes years to see an improvement. Look at Dublin. they have had 10 years of full time funded coaches. they now have about 40 working in schools and clubs and all they have to show is two minor titles. I'm not belittling it but it shows how long it takes to close the gap. There is no hurling team going to come from nowhere like a Westmeath or Fermanagh did in the football championship in recent years.
Agree that Antrim going into Leinster would not solve anything - seeded minor competitions is the way to progress. Better still scrap the minor provincial championships and have a three tier system based loosely on the McCarthy-Ring-Rackard model, except for minors, with round robin groups and shield and even plate competitions incorporated. I would also like to see the minor age raised to under-19 for hurling. this would level the playing field a bit for the weaker counties and also keep players playing an extra year towards adulthood as alot of players are lost to football after minor.
So be thankful for what you have in Leinster. It is better than Ulster and Connacht, beleive me. I'm sure that some county boards could do more, but at the same time they have to play the percantages to a certain extent.
Rant over!!!

Pride Fighter

Wolfhillbilly wrote: »

I wouldn't share your pessimism about Leinster hurling. In fact I think Leinster is the most progressive province in terms of hurling and Liam O'Neill will be a bad loss to you in terms of promoting the game in the weaker counties. I hope he is still involved even though he is not Leinster chair anymore.
Leaving aside the two shambles this year in the MHC, it is the best championship outside the Munster SHC. 10 out of the 12 counties compete, it is seeded so that the teams at the botton end of the scale don't meet the likes of Kilkenny, there is a huge round robin element which means that every side gets at least 3 or 4 games, those that are off the pace still have something to play for because there is a shield competition - I think it is an excellent competition. I wish Ulster would follow suit, while Connacht is just a disgrace. Hurling will only develop in a county by producing competitive underage teams, which in turn can only be produced by playing decent games during the summer. No amount of mucking around with the senior structures in the McCarthy Cup will make a team competitive. We need a system where every county plays three or four games in the minor championship - which Leinster has.
This is the reason why there were no Leinster teams in Division 4 of the NHL this year, which is quite an achievement considering Leinster accounts for over one-third of the country. The only two teams in Division 3 were Louth and Longford, the rest were in 1 and 2. Incidentally, Louth and Longford are the only two teams who don't compete in the Leinster MHC and are the only two in the Rackard Cup. Coincidence?
The difficulty with promoting hurling is that it takes years to see an improvement. Look at Dublin. they have had 10 years of full time funded coaches. they now have about 40 working in schools and clubs and all they have to show is two minor titles. I'm not belittling it but it shows how long it takes to close the gap. There is no hurling team going to come from nowhere like a Westmeath or Fermanagh did in the football championship in recent years.
Agree that Antrim going into Leinster would not solve anything - seeded minor competitions is the way to progress. Better still scrap the minor provincial championships and have a three tier system based loosely on the McCarthy-Ring-Rackard model, except for minors, with round robin groups and shield and even plate competitions incorporated. I would also like to see the minor age raised to under-19 for hurling. this would level the playing field a bit for the weaker counties and also keep players playing an extra year towards adulthood as alot of players are lost to football after minor.
So be thankful for what you have in Leinster. It is better than Ulster and Connacht, beleive me. I'm sure that some county boards could do more, but at the same time they have to play the percantages to a certain extent.
Rant over!!!

Well written post and your ideas are excellent IMO. The bandying around of an open draw in hurling will do nothing but make the bigger teams bigger. If Dublin make the Leinster final this year it will be great for us and gives us a better chance at making an AI quarter final. What we could do is have the non McCarthy cup teams fighting for a place in the Leinster championship and these teams, will get hammered at the start but over time will make the standard and when they do get another team to the standard.

DublinDes

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Another reason to be optimistic is seeing the Dublin senior hurling team in Croke park in a Leinster final this year:) (hopefully).

Well we have'nt got there yet but here's hoping . Anyway, the minors should give it a good blast again this year as Dublin Schools won Leinster again so there should be talent coming through.