The Lisbon Treaty and the Health Service

Galmay

First of all I would like to state that I am of no particular political persuasion. I am interested to know what others think of what I am about to propose and if this has indeed already been proposed elsewhere by individuals or certain political groups.

As a starting point I think it is important to point out my opinion on the Lisbon Treaty. I am well-disposed towards it. European integration has been integral to the current state of the economy in Europe (which is fantastic by the way in comparison to what it started out as in 1957!), it has been integral to equality of persons, quality of goods and services, integral to our current way of life. Further integration is not something which I see will harm Europe or Ireland in any meaningful way. The benefits will far outweigh any minor costs. I do not see Ireland’s neutrality being snatched away from us. I do not see Ireland being forced to harmonise corporation tax rates. I do not see the EU institutions as being sneaky or underhanded by nature (despite they being run by politicians!) I am, therefore, pro-european.

However I am proposing a ‘NO’ vote in the upcoming referendum. For the following reason. The health service, or lack thereof.

In my opinion, a protest vote on the Lisbon referendum is one of the final options available to the Irish electorate to make their voices heard on the current polices being pursued by Ms Harney. The people voted against them in their demolition of the PDs in the general election. They received less than 1% of the popular vote yet amazingly FF let Ms Harney free in the Dept of Health once more. Furthermore, an obvious protest vote on the treaty would allow it to be re-run and then ratified (eg as in the NICE treaty) following a change of direction in the health service.

The policies of privatisation have failed. They prove a cheap short term option in many ways (eg NTPF) however, continual out-sourcing of services to private operators without providing the resources for the state to build up its own health system is far costlier in the medium to longer term, not only financially, but socially. A system similar to the health care system in the USA is the PDs capitalist vision for Ireland, private healthcare, private insurance, little or no state supported system, never mind those who cannot afford it (By the way, this is not conspiracy theory claptrap, its a fact that the PDs place private enterprise above state-provided services. Speak to any consultant doctor in the country, they will confirm the current direction of the health service, think hospital co-location, look for advertisements in the paper for the conference in Dublin this weekend on private healthcare – logo revolution or evolution, all major private hospitals are present, guest speaker Mary Harney). What is worse almost is the fact that the administrative and managerial nightmare that is the HSE is seemingly independent of the Minister for Health and absolves the minister of any responsibility, hence her ability to remain in the post for this length of time. At a time when America is considering a National Health Service, Ireland is dismantling its own.

Some may say that the private sector may succeed where the public sector has failed. However, the public sector is not being allowed to succeed. Shiny new hospitals lay dormant across the country, whole swathes of other hospitals are shut down. Members of staff within the HSE are scared to speak up due to the culture of fear that has been cultivated by the HSE’s recruitment embargo and its adversarial approach to front-line staff who are now known only as ‘vested-interests’. Their ability to speak out against the jaw-dropping decisions currently being taken in our hospitals has been effectively lost through bullying, fear and mis-information through the HSE’s multi-million euro PR budget. Often, its been quoted that HSE staff are inflexible in their working conditions and resistant to change. Go into any hospital. Go to any area. Nurses. Physiotherapists. Radiographers. Medical Scientists. Pharmacists. Paramedical staff. Ask them about their jobs, workloads, conditions of the buildings they work in. The hours they put in. The overtime. The un-paid overtime. Ask them about life-long learning. Their degrees. The Masters degrees. These are dedicated members of the health service all currently being treated like s*** by the HSE in order to push in new reforms based on privitisation which the staff question on practical grounds. Or we can talk about the centres of excellence promised. Staff are being told elsewhere to begin to wind down services. In the dedicated centres, no new staff are being made available, no new resources. The breaking point is approaching.

Okay, I apologise this has turned into a bit of a rant. Albeit, one I stand over. It is for these reasons and more that I propose that the Irish people vote ‘NO’ in protest on the Lisbon Treaty. That the government are made well aware of our voting intentions and that our demands are made clear. That

]a) Mary Harney is removed from Health

b) That her current policies of privatisation go with her

c) A government commitment is made to rebuilding and properly resourcing the Health Service as a State-provided service

d) The HSE is dismantled and replaced with a functioning authoritative body

So, what do people think? Do you agree or do you think I’m a nutter? Some people may argue that to use the referendum for such a purpose is irresponsible but I argue that this may be the last chance we get to stop the government before its gone too far (they didn’t listen at the general election, they didn’t listen to any other protests). In my opinion, it is irresponsible to allow them to continue. All comments welcome!

Scofflaw

I may have missed something there, but why is an EU referendum the "last chance" when the locals and European elections are coming up next year?

puzzled,
Scofflaw

Galmay

Im sorry to have puzzled you.
The privatisation of the health service will have continued unabated by the time those elections come round and further progress will have been made on co-location by then. There will come a time when it will be too late to change the direction the HSE and Harney are steering health provision in Ireland.
Also,there will be further shutdown of services in certain areas without the relavent resources being allocated to the "centres of excellence" so that they can cope with their increased population base.
By that stage, the embargo on employment will have damaged hospitals and service capabilities around the country to a much more significant degree. Re-opening services and wards in different departments and indeed in different regions will be more difficult the longer this proceeds and indeed for many departments affected, the service will not be as good for a number of years to come afterwards until it has properly established itself again.
Another important point is that the Lisbon Treaty is a much greater stick to hit the politicians and will cause them greater embarrassment and draw european wide attention to the way Ireland is run. ie what made the electorate vote no? the treaty itself, the economy or the state of the health system? etc.
People can wait if they choose for the local and european elections to show their disagreement with government but I believe they will pay much more attention to an embarrassing no vote in the referendum. Plus, I would prefer if I didnt have to wait such a length of time as the health service crumbles and is sold off.

oscarBravo

I disagree. Suppose the referendum is defeated, do you really think the government is going to say "oh dear, we'd better sack Mary Harney and try again"?

Vote for or against the treaty on its merits, not as a protest.

Galmay

Thats fair enough. Im looking for other peoples opinion on this. No, they probably wont sack her, you are right about that. But surely that doesn't mean that people should just stay quiet and do as asked?

At the very least its a very visible sign of public disquiet. And they will have to "try again" either with this treaty or with it in a modified form.

Scofflaw

Galmay wrote: »

Thats fair enough. Im looking for other peoples opinion on this. No, they probably wont sack her, you are right about that. But surely that doesn't mean that people should just stay quiet and do as asked?

What about voting on the Treaty on the basis of its merits or drawbacks? Is that really such a bizarre idea?

Galmay wrote: »

At the very least its a very visible sign of public disquiet. And they will have to "try again" either with this treaty or with it in a modified form.

This is the "trying again".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dirk Gently

Galmay wrote: »

In my opinion, a protest vote on the Lisbon referendum is one of the final options available to the Irish electorate to make their voices heard on the current polices being pursued by Ms Harney. The people voted against them in their demolition of the PDs in the general election. They received less than 1% of the popular vote yet amazingly FF let Ms Harney free in the Dept of Health once more. Furthermore, an obvious protest vote on the treaty would allow it to be re-run and then ratified (eg as in the NICE treaty) following a change of direction in the health service.

While I agree with you regarding pd policy and private health, I have to disagree with your point above. While the PDs might have been demolished, the public still made a clear choice between public / private health. Just about the only thing seperating the two sides was health. It was pretty obvious that no one but harney was getting the health job should the government win. The people voted for private health, whether you or I like it, or whether they realise it tbh. Despite the demise of the PD's, they have actually succeed in their goals, as FF is today, more or less what the PD's wanted them to be when they spilt from them in the first place. In effect, they've molded FF from the outside and tbh there's not much need for them anymore. Job done as far as they're concerned.

Also, protest votes rarely achieve anything. If you approve of the treaty then just vote yes. The irish public are the ones who voted for private health. It's up to them to vote the government out if they want change. Harney is just fulfilling her mandate. How do you get the government to change policy without having on the ballot card........

(1) YES option
(2) NO option
(3) NO, but I would have voted yes if you sack harney even though we voted the government in based on her policies.

oscarBravo

Galmay wrote: »

No, they probably wont sack her, you are right about that.

Which means you would have voted against a treaty that (correct me if I'm wrong) you're broadly in favour of, with no positive outcome.

But surely that doesn't mean that people should just stay quiet and do as asked?

Do as asked, as in vote for the treaty? or do as asked, as in accept the government's policy on health?

If the former, ignore what you're being asked to do and vote for or against the treaty on its merits. If the latter, find another way to register your protest; ideally one that actually has some relevance to the situation you're unhappy about.

At the very least its a very visible sign of public disquiet.

If you and x other people vote against the treaty because of dissatisfaction with the health service, your voice will be lost among the (number of no votes - x) who vote no for different reasons. If you organise a protest - of any kind - that's specific to the health service, you'll have a visible sign of public disquiet, plus you won't have sabotaged the treaty for reasons that are irrelevant to the treaty itself.

Galmay

Well, it seems there isnt great support for such an idea. point taken.

As I said before though, in broad terms, the treaty will do Ireland no harm (unlike Harney and the HSE).

oscarBravo

As a matter of interest, did you have a letter published in today's Irish Times on the same subject?

Galmay

No, but I did see that. I actually posted the above a couple of weeks ago in political theory forum i think but it was locked as they were re-organising threads. Read the times today and it reminded me to re-post it

Moriarty

Apologies for not shifting your original thread in here when the forum was created Galmay, it got lost in the jumble of things floating through my head