How much would an Independent Bookmaker turnover per week

Howjoe1

I friend is considering a new venture. He has a fair amount of collateral from current successful ventures (non bookmaking, which he will keep on).

His only experience would be on the wrong side of the counter so to speak, i.e placing the odd small bet. Me, being someone decent with figures, he has offered me a role of looking after tax compliance issues, wages/prsi etc and a more hands on role if wanted (not sure if I fancy being behind the counter)

The location looks ideal, big encachment area and no immediate competitor.

Does anyone have any experience of how much such an operation might be expected to make in a week. And likewise typical costs of outgoings? I believe computerised bet capturing systems don't come cheap.

Any advice appreciated.

PADDYPOKER

Impossible to say from those small facts tbh.
What sort of area is it in i.e. working class/middle class etc
that will determine the amount per betting slip and the type of bet.
Middle to upper class would be more single large bets while working class area might be lots of small stake Lucky15's, Yankees etc.
Could be difficult if there's no competition around, you may need to ask why?
Do the multiples know something you don't?
Are there a lot of houses around, is it near a pub and/or shops/
Where are the punters going to come from?
Will you offer something different for them to encourage them to come into the shop?
Fitting a shop isn't cheap and there are lots of ongoing costs
like Sky, Turf TV, SIS, wages, slips, papers etc.
An average bookie is making between 10-15% profit (can't remember if that was Gross or Nett sorry) so obviously the greater the turnover,
the more the potential profit.
Think you are talking about EPOS, google it.
Also have a look on racingpost.com they have a lot of trade adverts and also try the Betfair forum they might be able to give you some more info.

Howjoe1

Thanks for the reply . I appreciate the info given is a little scant,

However, the location would appear to met all the ideal ingredients in tems of ready punters etc.

Given that its now a 7 day a week operation with evening racing, I suspect that wage costs could be high, but this is relative if sufficient punters come through the door. A lot of operations I see might only have one girl working at off peak times.

Boiling it down, what I was trying to establish is, should two owners be able to make a reasonably amount after costs assuming it is well run? Someone on another post reckoned €5K/€6k would be a reasonable eturn per week.

Keano

I don't really think this belongs in this forum.

Perhaps Business might be a better place for a discussion.

badbrian

PADDYPOKER wrote: »

An average bookie is making between 10-15% profit (can't remember if that was Gross or Nett sorry) so obviously the greater the turnover,
the more the potential profit.

Having had a quick look at Ireland's largest bookmakers accounts I would suggest a gross profit margin (before any operating costs) of 12-13% could be expected.

Howjoe1

badbrian wrote: »

Having had a quick look at Ireland's largest bookmakers accounts I would suggest a gross profit margin (before any operating costs) of 12-13% could be expected.

Thanks for support. Keano, agree..can i move it to business section? mind you i have got some helpful responses here.

Collie D

Think you might have some competition

Friedn of mine has been in the bookies business for a while and is looking into branching out on her own. Apparently she'll employ me and better my current wage as her runner ie laying off bets that she thinks could hit her hard. Finally a job I'm really good at, placing losing bets

Howjoe1

Collie D wrote: »

Think you might have some competition

Friedn of mine has been in the bookies business for a while and is looking into branching out on her own. Apparently she'll employ me and better my current wage as her runner ie laying off bets that she thinks could hit her hard. Finally a job I'm really good at, placing losing bets

I would have thought with betting exchanges and online accounts, the use of a runner is almost redundant?

conZ

My Exs uncle has a bookies in the East. Opened about 2 years ago, and they're clearing 12k a week on a good week.

wb

Make sure you open next door to a pub or very near one if possible (a pub that shows racing that is, not a swanky modern joint).

Keano

wb wrote: »

Make sure you open next door to a pub or very near one if possible (a pub that shows racing that is, not a swanky modern joint).

^^Totally agree

The 4 bookies in my town are all next door a pub - coincidence? I think not.

dargler

a typical bookies aims to make €2k a week after expenses the profit margin is generally 2
% after expenses so a turnover of €50k a week is necessary to make it work, depending on expenses etc.

raheny red

wb wrote: »

Make sure you open next door to a pub or very near one if possible (a pub that shows racing that is, not a swanky modern joint).

A new place just opened in Edenmore recently. The Track is basically in the Concorde pub but is doing **** all business as Lads and Powers are just around the corner. I was in The Track last night placing a bet for today's games. I put the bet on at roughly 8.20 and it was only their 220th bet of day :eek: - that's shocking for a Saturday. You're friend will need to have a good look around and see if there are any pubs with no bookies around in the surrounding area imo. I'm working in a bookies part-time while I'm at college. During the winter months I'd say we're up €1200 average per day. Now in the summer that figure is roughly €2500. Now that's just the betting side of things and I wouldn't be too sure of the costs.

Collie D

Howjoe1 wrote: »

I would have thought with betting exchanges and online accounts, the use of a runner is almost redundant?

I would have thought so too but I could do that too Just makes my job even easier, wouldn't have to leave the house

Howjoe1

raheny red wrote: »

A new place just opened in Edenmore recently. The Track is basically in the Concorde pub but is doing **** all business as Lads and Powers are just around the corner. I was in The Track last night placing a bet for today's games. I put the bet on at roughly 8.20 and it was only their 220th bet of day :eek: - that's shocking for a Saturday. You're friend will need to have a good look around and see if there are any pubs with no bookies around in the surrounding area imo. I'm working in a bookies part-time while I'm at college. During the winter months I'd say we're up €1200 average per day. Now in the summer that figure is roughly €2500. Now that's just the betting side of things and I wouldn't be too sure of the costs.

Thanks that's useful. There isn't another shop close by which is why we are so keen on the unit.

Your part-time job, is it with an independent or a big player?

raheny red

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Your part-time job, is it with an independent or a big player?

Independent.

adpk

I found this thread on doing an Internet search on "Opening a Betting Shop". I am considering opening a shop myself.
However I have been struggling to find any useful information on this topic and was wondering if the opening poster had been successful in his plans.

I know how tough it is in the industry right now, but shop leases can be had very cheaply and I think starting out at the bottom of an economic cycle is better that coming in at the peak.

okidoki987

With the specials that bookies are doing at the moment to keep the turnover in their shops, you'd be mad.

MikeB94

Long time reader of this forum and a few others and felt compelled to set up an account give you a response after seeing your thread. I work with one of the larger companies in the south of ireland for the past 2 and a half years and if this thread had come up then i would say go for it. However the landscape of bookmaking in this country has changes so much in the last couple of years that now i would be dead against setting one up in the current climate. I, myself a few times have had a look at a couple of premises in what i would have taught as decent locations in the last 6 months but having seen the figures of the previous occupants it was a straight no. There is so many added costs now in setting up a bookies. If your starting afresh in a new place the setting up of the shop and televisions is a big cost. Now you also have to pay for both SIS and Turf TV if you wanna pick up all the British Racing which doesnt come cheap as an independent.(the bigger firms just agreed a fee with turf tv when it was first set up) Now you havent even maentioned looking for a computer system or which company your going to recieve your odds of. The company i work for looks for a 16% gross profit figure on total turnover. This includes very high margin products such as virtual racing and lotto(which is very hard to build a good clientele of from scratch unless you offer something like bigger odds which again eats into your margin). Now i feel like ive said a lot but a widely accepted rumour in the iundustry is that the government is going to bring in a 2% tax on winnings which the big boys will absorb but i think this will effectively crush the indepnedents.
Now you may have found a suitable location adbk but i just think the days of indpependents are over and if ya want to drop me PM if you have any questions on what ive said feel free.

adpk

MikeB Thanks for the response and going to the effort of registering to do so. Unfortunately I do not yet have enough posts on this forum to have permission to PM you.

The system I was looking at was Alphametric.

I am in no rush to dive in to this venture, although I did find what I believe is a good location and could get it fairly cheap.

I will continue to research and see how things develop.

cards

There were 2 different ads on donedeal recently, one with 2 midlands betting shops for I think 30k each and another single unit for sale somewhere.They may be still up there but I can't think of a worse business to get involved in at the moment.I know of several independent shops that have closed over the last 18 months.

myflipflops

Not an industry to even start thinking about enterring from scratch until the betting tax issue is settled. Even then, I would advice against getting into it unless you are bringing specific expertise to the table.

Howjoe1

Don't do it. the market is saturated and punters money has dwindled alarmingly.

you would need to be able to go to the bank with €4k to €5k EVERY week to cover running costs. impossible in current climate. if the betting levied doubled in the budget you would have to find maybe another €1 each week.

hours are horrendous.

ask SIS and Alphameric and they will tell you how mamy shops are strugingly and/or closing down.

with specials and often poor results in recent times keeping 7% of your take is all you might end up with. the lotto for one shop operator is a loss maker becauuse you will never have the volume you need and one punter getting 3 or 4 numbers up will set you back 3 weeks.

Howjoe1

an extra €1k that is for levy if this dumb government goes ahead with plan in budget. which will close more shops. they should be trying instead to close the loophole that lets PP etc operate phone and internet betting off shore and not pay a penny tax:mad:

sorry about all typos