Taking charges from rent, is this reasonable?

mikemac

Always paid my landlord via standing order.
I recently got a letter to pay rent to a new account they wanted to use. That was fine so I set this up and made payment.

Que an angry phonecall from the landlord last week asking where my rent was. It turns out I was given the incorrect account number on the letter, typing error I'm told. :rolleyes:
So some other person got the rent money

It cost around €3.50 in charges to set this up and it costs money again to amend it. Plus the bank are investigating as the money has to be returned but account was emptied after I paid it. :eek:

The landlord is demanding I pay again and arrange the return of my money with the bank in my own time. I wanted to wait until I get my money back, I've no idea what procedures the bank has for this.

Can I wait? I'm getting anqry phonecalls over this. But I followed the letter so not realy my fault.
Plus I plan to knock some money off the rent for all the calls and time I've spent dealing with the bank plus charges for amending my standing order.

Am I being reasonable? I know there are few landlords on boards, is that being cheeky?

Conar

I used to rent a place out, and I would certainly consider it my fault if I supplied the wrong account details to the tennants.
Make him wait, unless you're totally flush and it doesn't really matter to you.
Charging for the phone calls may be a bit OTT though.

Redpunto

Who sent the letter? Was it the landlord? If he made the typing error i'd tell him to go f*ck off in the nicest possible way and tell him he'll get paid when you get your money back from the wrong account. It is wasnt his fault then I guess he'd be entitled to his rent.

In regards to the bank charges, twasnt their fault that the SO was set up wrong so suppose its up to them whether they charge you again.

mikemac

Conar wrote: »

Charging for the phone calls may be a bit OTT though.

Oh, I'm not noting length of calls or being pedantic like that. I don't bill like a lawyer
But I've made several calls and possibly I might have to call down to the bank to sign some declaration, thus giving up my lunchhour.
So yeah, I might knock €15-€20 off, we'll see how it goes

@Redpunto, I entered the details that were on the letter. And checked it several times before I did. Landlord gave me the incorrect account number but wants cash now, possibly they are under pressure with their mortgage, not my concern though

Calina

I would point out that should they continue to be difficult about an error that they made, you will consider taking it up with the PRTB. You paid the rent per their instructions. You are doing your best to rectify an error which they made.

adam.number2

agree with Calina. I would dock the amount the bank charges for reseting up the SO, but billing for lunch hour and phone calls wont stack up. Sorry OP, sounds like you're chancing your arm on that one.

the_syco

micmclo wrote: »

Que an angry phonecall from the landlord last week asking where my rent was. It turns out I was given the incorrect account number on the letter, typing error I'm told. :rolleyes:
So some other person got the rent money

Was the number off by one digit, or totally different? If the former, could be a mistake, if the latter, suspicious, especially as it was emptied straight away.

Regarding the landlord, get onto PRTB.As Calina has said, you paid the rent as per their instructions. So why should you be out of pocket for their f**k up.

mikemac

the_syco wrote: »

Was the number off by one digit, or totally different? If the former, could be a mistake, if the latter, suspicious, especially as it was emptied straight away.

Last two digits were incorrect so I'm going with careless mistake.
They are registered with PRTB, but from what I've read on boards they takes months to resolve disputes and this will sorted in a few weeks hopefully, depending on what the bank do. Does anyone know what a bank does in this case, is the money gone for good if the person never uses the a/c again?
Thanks for all advice so far

Btw I'm on the lookout for threads in After Hours with "Loadsa unexpected money in my a/c, help me spend it!"

If you see such a thread, pm me. :pac:

johnnyskeleton

As a side point, what bank are you with? Most banks don't charge to set up a standing order anymore, and very few of them charged to amend one.

The_Conductor

Re: taking charges from rent- you do not have the right to withold any portion of the rent, without the prior agreement of the landlord. However I would think its entirely reasonable to hold off paying the rent until it has been returned to you- if the mistake was with the landlord in the first instance. You did have legitimate costs associated with the landlords mistake- talk to him/her, if they are anyway reasonable they should agree to writing them off against either this months rent, or next months. You cannot unilaterly do this yourself though- they have to agree.

DublinDilbert

Based on what you say above, your landlord is bang out of order... I would not entertain that at all, as you have in writing their instructions which you carried out.

I would not be paying out any more money until the bank manages to rectify the error and give you back the money, if they can.

If the bank can not get the money back (ie account has been cleared), i'm not sure what they can do, I'm also not sure who takes the loss... I would imagine that your landlord would have to take the loss as he put the account details in writing and everyone else (both you and the bank) acted in good faith based on his instructions.

Legally it looks like your landlord has "gifted" some random person the money due to him... i guess he would have to take a civil action against this person to recoup his money, but even at that i don't think the bank would be at liberty to tell him who it is....

Sundy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Legally it looks like your landlord has "gifted" some random person the money due to him... i guess he would have to take a civil action against this person to recoup his money, but even at that i don't think the bank would be at liberty to tell him who it is....

Of course the bank could reveal who the money was transfered to as it is basically theft. If a cheque is put through your letter box by accident it doesnt make the money yours.

johnnyskeleton

Sundy wrote: »

Of course the bank could reveal who the money was transfered to as it is basically theft. If a cheque is put through your letter box by accident it doesnt make the money yours.

A bank can't give out one customer's details to another customer for any reason.

It's also not theft unless there is a dishonest appropriation of the funds. Simply doing nothing and leaving the money there is not theft.

Sundy

Read what the OP said, the account was emptied. If that account holder refuses to return the money it is theft. The bank could reveal the details to the Gardai though. Maybe the OP should inform them of the situation.

DonJose

Calina wrote: »

I would point out that should they continue to be difficult about an error that they made, you will consider taking it up with the PRTB. You paid the rent per their instructions. You are doing your best to rectify an error which they made.

Like Calina said, also keep every piece of paper on file including the letter with the wrong account number. Do not pay the landlord until the payment is returned. The worst that can happen is you might be illegally evicted, if this happens you could file a complaint with the PRTB and possibly win a nice sum of compensation for an illegal eviction Check out some of the case files on the PRTB site, I saw one tenant was awarded €28k for being illegally evicted.

DublinDilbert

Sundy wrote: »

Of course the bank could reveal who the money was transfered to as it is basically theft. If a cheque is put through your letter box by accident it doesnt make the money yours.

how is it theft? if it was a bank error it would be theft, but its not a bank error.

Its the equivalent of the land lord walking up to someone on the street and handing them €1000. Then saying oops i didn't meant to give you that money... The person has not stolen anything.... The landlord has explicitly given it to them.

The garda's would have nothing to charge this random person with. You go out and give someone €100 tomorrow, then go to the garda station and try have him charged with stealing it, see the response you get...

This would be a civil rather and a criminal matter, hence would need to be dealt with as such...

Sundy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

how is it theft? if it was a bank error it would be theft, but its not a bank error.

Its the equivalent of the land lord walking up to someone on the street and handing them €1000. Then saying oops i didn't meant to give you that money... The person has not stolen anything.... The landlord has explicitly given it to them.

The garda's would have nothing to charge this random person with. You go out and give someone €100 tomorrow, then go to the garda station and try have him charged with stealing it, see the response you get...

This would be a civil rather and a criminal matter, hence would need to be dealt with as such...

Sorry but thats a common misconception i believe. Taking something that does not belong to you is theft. Just because the money was put into a random persons account does not mean the money is theirs.

And the difference between this case and just handing the money to someone on the street is that nobody intended for the money to go into a random account it was an error.

Its the same as if you find a large sum of money on street, if you pocket it, its theft. No mater where you find it, if it doesnt belong to you taking it is theft

GerardKeating

Sundy wrote: »

Sorry but thats a common misconception i believe. Taking something that does not belong to you is theft. Just because the money was put into a random persons account does not mean the money is theirs.

And the difference between this case and just handing the money to someone on the street is that nobody intended for the money to go into a random account it was an error.

Its the same as if you find a large sum of money on street, if you pocket it, its theft. No mater where you find it, if it doesnt belong to you taking it is theft

It aint theft untill someone asks for the money back.. The lucky receipient could claim they were epecting monies from another source, and thouight this was it.

Sundy

GerardKeating wrote: »

It aint theft untill someone asks for the money back.. The lucky receipient could claim they were epecting monies from another source, and thouight this was it.

Exactly but seeing as the OP has found out the money has been taken from the account, you would also expect that some steps have been taken to retrieve it so was i going on the presumption that the money was not being returned willingly.