The importance of good lighting design

fishdog

Choosing the correct light fittings, where they should be installed and how many should be used requires a lot of skill. This area is often overlooked by customers, architects and electrical contractors. This can have a detrimental effect on any project and the reputation of an electrician.

I feel that the main problems are:

1) Finding quality lighting at any price, never mind at a reasonable price! Most lighting shops sell the same hideous shiny tacky stuff.:eek::eek: For example: Triple GU10 spotlights that never seem to give you light where you want it!(I hate GU10s they have low quality light and low efficacy)

2) Since the 80’s many people started to think that if they had lots of down lighters in every room any house could look great. Often resulting in many bland rooms had several symmetrical rows of down lighters giving a "runway effect". IMHO the downlighter phenomenon that has taken Ireland by storm will date many houses. Don’t get me wrong I think that they have their place, but we have become over dependant on them.

3) Lack of training given to electricians to make lighting look good, as opposed to just being functional.

4) General reluctance to use lighting designers by either the electrical contractor and/or the client. Also some architects have over confidence in their ability and design lighting that simply does not work.

Am I alone in this??
Can anyone recommend light fittings available in Ireland or lighting shops??
I have great difficulty finding what I want, perhaps I am a bit fussy!!:p

[/rant]

clickerquicklic

+1

Have to agree with everything you said there FISHDOG especially the downlighters in every room not my thing at all.

northdublin

when re-wiring and refitting the lights and electrics in my own home i thought long and hard about it. i was tempted to use downlighters in most of the rooms but every house has that done so i opted for uplighting wall lights along with a mixture of downlighters and ceiling hung fixtures. the uplighters project light up onto the ceiling and then down into the room in a nicely difussed form also giving ample light. this can be done also using wall washers but they are usually quite large and exspensive to run.
theres no limit to what you can do with lighting in a house if you have the money and the ideas. i still find it hard to believe that builders are getting away wth wiring single 6'' pendants in every room and not enough provision is left for lighting in houses...especially in kitchens.

fishdog

the uplighters project light up onto the ceiling and then down into the room in a nicely difussed form also giving ample light

Yes, I have seen this very effictively.

this can be done also using wall washers but they are usually quite large and exspensive to run.

It can also be with low running costs using T4 or T5 fluorescent lights on top of shelves or presses. It can look good if you can not see the light fitting itself, just the light from it. Dimming can be a bit more complex!

theres no limit to what you can do with lighting in a house if you have the money and the ideas

Very true. Even with a limited budget you still do a fair bit if you have the imagination.

still find it hard to believe that builders are getting away wth wiring single 6'' pendants in every room and not enough provision is left for lighting in houses...especially in kitchens.

+ 1

Stoner

In fairness to the builders it is the nature of the cost cutting element driving the industry.

I've been involved in many designs where I was told at the start, "we want top of the range here, dimming systems, AV wiring , fitted alarm, colour video intercom"
only for the thing to end up with 4 figure of eight wiring points for the "AV system" a prewired alarm, a dimmer switch in the living room, audio intercom, and pendants everywhere else.

At a push they might go for bottom of the range chrome sockets in the living room and kitchen, that's the bit of class they were looking for LOL.

Its such a huge waste of time, designing, pricing, over and over again, when you know they way its going anyway.

But any work is great work these days

fishdog

In fairness to the builders it is the nature of the cost cutting element driving the industry.

I know, but they are giving free cars with some houses! A few hundread euro on light fittings can go a long way if they are the right type and a bit of thought goes into them.

I've been involved in many designs where I was told at the start, "we want top of the range here, dimming systems, AV wiring , fitted alarm, colour video intercom"
only for the thing to end up with 4 figure of eight wiring points for the "AV system" a prewired alarm, a dimmer switch in the living room, audio intercom, and pendants everywhere else.

Fair point! But they normally end up changing the 6" pendants for something and there is very limited choice. Many new builds dont even have the lights installed in suitable locations.

Its such a huge waste of time, designing, pricing, over and over again, when you know they way its going anyway.

It can be. But I have seen a talented lighting designer in action. He knew the products he was selling well and from the drawings I gave him he came up with a stunning design in minutes. To be fair he is very experienced.

But any work is great work these days

I think that clever lighting design can make one contractor stand out from others.

Stoner

the market will dictate all these issues. thats why there is so little storage heating going in these days, with the pinch builders knew that people will buy gas heated units quicker.

The upgraded specs are becoming more popular and units need to stand out, before during the boom any type of muck sold.

BreeVdK

What are downlighters? Are they spotlights?

I also love the idea of running tube lighting over the tops of the kitchen wall units so a glow emanates up. Have seen that before but its been behind a panel on the ceiling that is suspended lower than the ceiling. Hard to explain.

Any of you have any pics of what you mean re good lighting etc? Also, what type of sockets, light controls would you put in? My other half thinks chrome fittings stand out (in a bad way) than the old white ones. :-)


Thanks.

fishdog

The upgraded specs are becoming more popular and units need to stand out, before during the boom any type of muck sold.

Exactly.

What are downlighters?

They are a small light fitting that is recessed into the ceiling so that the front of the lamp finishes flush. They generally take a halogen bulb.

Have seen that before but its been behind a panel on the ceiling that is suspended lower than the ceiling. Hard to explain.

I know what you mean, very effective.

northdublin

i feel its usually down to the individual, i know a lot of people who in their own mind dont want the hassle of multiple types of lights and fixtures in their house. for decades people have goten used to wattage and a handfull of fitings ie bc, es, sbc and ses and when it comes down to it they want to stick to what they know. for instance the colour coding on flouresent bulbs was a complete mystery to me untill i started working in wholesaler and trying to explain to someone that there is a colour variation between the brands even though there both 840 as an example can be a nightmare. so i think a lot of people want to keep things simple. i arrived to a mates house the other day and as soon as he turned on his standing lamp in the living room i knew he had the wrong type bulb, he should have had a 60 watt 78mm halogen...instead hed had a 300 watt:rolleyes: some ppl just dont know and others just dont want to know

Stoner

BreeVdK wrote: »

I also love the idea of running tube lighting over the tops of the kitchen wall units so a glow emanates up. Have seen that before but its been behind a panel on the ceiling that is suspended lower than the ceiling. Hard to explain.

Thanks.

yeah they can look well, this bulkhead is usually constructed so that the lights fit into it. Fantasy lights in Dublin have a lot of this type of thing, they have a showroom you could check out.

Flexy neon is fairly powerful and better than the older rope light, strip lighting with differnt colour sleeves has also been used , but I like the flexy neon better from a heat , cost and size point of view.

Its reasonably priced , if you are getting it make sure you get the clips from them as they have clear plastic ones that wont block the light

northdublin

Stoner wrote: »

yeah they can look well, this bulkhead is usually constructed so that the lights fit into it. Fantasy lights in Dublin have a lot of this type of thing, they have a showroom you could check out.

Flexy neon is fairly powerful and better than the older rope light, strip lighting with differnt colour sleeves has also been used , but I like the flexy neon better from a heat , cost and size point of view.

Its reasonably priced , if you are getting it make sure you get the clips from them as they have clear plastic ones that wont block the light

on the topic of flexy neon. i tried to use this for accent lighting behind my flatscreen tv. i cut enough of a roll to sit on the wall in a square just slightly smaller then the dimensions of the tv but found it not bright enough to be noticable. we also do led rope light which is considerable brighter and of course more exspensive but ive yet to try it.

fishdog

I have never seen flexy neon. Where can you get it and what is it like??? Is it any good??

northdublin

fishdog wrote: »

I have never seen flexy neon. Where can you get it and what is it like??? Is it any good??

yeah we have a pallet of it from xmas...very popular around that time. its called neon rope light and comes in blue, red, green, white. it only has the desired effect if you can see it directly so if you had it behind a pelmet or over cabinets you would be hard pressed to see it. the led version which is similar in size and design is much brighter and comes in similar colours.
there are marks in it every metre or so and it is here where you have to cut it. at one end you attach a live feed in the form of two pins the push and glue on to make it water tight. on the other end you glue an end cap to waterproof it and cover what is essentially a live surface.

fishdog

I know what they are now, thanks.

metalscrubber

You mention you have worked with a talented lighting designer. Can you PM me his contact details / business name if possible please. We are at the final stages of our house design and I believe time spent with such an individual would be money well spent.

Cheers,

Metal

fishdog

We are at the final stages of our house design and I believe time spent with such an individual would be money well spent.

You are quite correct. For me it is great to see people like you taking an interest in this. You are also quite correct in looking at this now, during the design stage and not at advanced stages like many people do when it is too late!!

Also bear in mind that it takes a long time for some of these lights to arrive, so order sooner rather than later.

I am sure there is no problem in giving this information in a public way because I am only saying positive things about the people and company mentioned.

The company was Bob Bushell, they skilfully selected and supplied the light fittings and the incredible lighting design. I have to admit I was very concerned initially about the lighting design and the selection of light fittings. I thought it would be too dark and was very relieved to be proved wrong! For example I could not see how some of the 5 watt uplighters on the outside of the house would produce enough light to have the desired effect, but they did. They were not your ordinary uplighter!

The lighting designer was an English guy, whose first name is "James". I don’t know his surname, sorry. He left Bob Bushells about 2 years ago and is now doing his own thing, I have no other details. He was responsible for the lighting designs for some fantastic houses here and abroad including those of many celebrities. Bob Bushells still have a full time lighting designers, although I have no direct experience with them I would imagine that they are very good.

I had dealings with Bob Bushells several times after that and my experiences were very good. My only complaint is that I had to wait quite a while for some lights to arrive. Many lights of their lights are very unique, but also very, very expensive. But don’t worry they also there were some fantastic lights at a reasonable price that just looked fantastic. I am talking of from €70 up.

They have been responsible for many high profile projects around Ireland and internationally. Check out their website.

On one project of mine they took the drawings from me and produced 3D images of every room with the lights installed and switched on. Theses drawings proved to be very accurate. They gave the client their first impressions of their house in 3D. This service (about 4 years ago) cost about €400, but a €400 discount was given off the lights that were purchased. The bill was several thousand, but the result was stunning. For a house that is now worth several million it was a drop in the ocean and has transformed it from what would have been a nice house to something very special.

BTW I have never worked for Bob Bushells directly or indirectly.

I have recently noticed that Pia Bang (just off Grafton Street) have some great lights. Very elegent.

metalscrubber

Thanks for that - I will call them.

Metal

Stoner

I've worked with Bob Bushells many times, they seem to be very helpful to student engineers, they build relationships at an early stage.

they have a lovely range and do nice designs, typically they are not interested in dealing with contractors though. The best lighting designers I have met are usually suppliers too or elec engineers, I've found that dedicated lighting designers can be more trouble then good sometimes.
For houses worth a heap of money the clients usually hire in a consultant M&E company to do a complete design, how good or bad that design is at the end of the day is due to the designer.

the one thing I would like to warn you about as a fellow Boards poster is that they are the pricey end of things.

fishdog

the one thing I would like to warn you about as a fellow Boards poster is that they are the pricey end of things.

They can be! But if you only have a small budget (like me!!) splash out on the most important room(s) only such as kitchen and/or sitting room.
The other alternative is to put in cheap light fittings (such as 6" pendants @ less that €3 each) in the correct locations until you have the money for the ones you really want.

Some of the ideas from Bob Bushells I used in my own home used budget light fittings bought elsewhere. I will post pictures later.

10-10-20

You want to see the very essence of poor lighting design...?

These are 8x 50W GU10 downlighters over my bath - installed as per the previous occupant!

http://pix.ie/10-10-20/533575

There are 13 in the bathroom in total.

northdublin

we supply electrical gear to bob bushels but i never thought to ask the lads in the company what they did, ye learn something new everyday. do they have a showroom of a display area, eci lighting in finglas have a showroom and it makes a big differance to see the fittings up and working.

Stoner

lol 10.10.20 that is about the best example of downlight over kill alright