What are we doing wrong?

togster

Just finished watching Badminton horse trials there and im very confused tbh. Some of the top horses competing there are ISH and ridden by foreign riders.
See Andrew Hoy's horse moonfleet for example. We had 5 riders competing and none went cleear and none did a good dressage test.

So what are we doing so wrong?? To me it seems we don't do enough to keep the top horses in the country and also we don't get sufficient funding to support young professionals. The Brits get a lot of funding from the lottery fund. But does the problem run deeper than that? Do we have the training facilities/coaches. Do we need to take a serious look at who runs our sport and perhaps we need a more co-ordinated approach between organisations!!

So please offer your opinions.

togster

No they didn't

http://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/results/2008_results/cross_country_results.aspx

EDIT: This post was in respons to a poster who said they had gone clear but has been deleted

doctor evil

Funding by the goverment would be a big one. The inside toy throwing has not helped.

PR could be better, the general public needs to be made more aware of it. You don't have to be horsey to admire horse and rider going over mega fences. Dull commentary by presenters can kill any sport! Opinions of it needs to be changed, a lot of people still think its elitist.

Personally I think it would be great if someone like RTE could show Equestrian sports (besides racing) at a more reasonable hour. TV3 had show jumping on at crazy oclock a few months back.

Borderfox

I think its like quite a few sports in Ireland except for the mainstream ones. In the 80's Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche (just expamples) very flying high in the world of cycling and they succeeded despite receiving no government support at all, Charles Haughey had the cheek to turn up when Stephen Roche won the Tour de France. Anyway back on point no money invested and no more cyclists, same with Equestrian sports in Ireland. The amount of time and effort that BBC put into televising the Badminton event was huge and it shows in how well it looks. Tattersalls is on this month and you wont even hear about it in the media until it turns up on the Horse and Country channel

togster

I don't get it though, surely it's up to the sport to develop itself into something attractive to watch on tv. The BBC coverage of Badminton was phenomonal. We don't have a 4* competition in Ireland at the moment. The comentators on BBC commented alot about lottery funding being recieved by young professional riders in th UK at the moment. We don't have anything as extensive in Ireland.

Borderfox

As well there is a lot more avenues open for sponsorship too which will always give you access to the best mounts.

Kelly O'Malley

It's not so much the funding per se as the fact that the Brits had several top level international riders from overseas basing themselves in the UK to compete in Europe. They were lured in by the bait of Badminton & Burghley and the promise of top class young horses to bring along. (Irish bred!) In return these riders held clinics etc and experience and expertise were passed on to young riders willing to learn.

The Olympics are to be held in the UK in 2012 so the time is NOW to make Ireland a base for international riders particularly those from the southern hemisphere - looking to ready for that event.

Offer them the horses and a base with appropriate facilities (somewhere they can do clinics as well as ready themselves) and they will come!

Be quick though - the Brits aren't entirely stupid and will have thought of this - it worked for them before..
more than once!

Remember Richard Todd?He was lured in to the UK that way.

It's not lack of money that's stopping Ireland - it's stupidity and lack of forethought.

We have the Dublin Horse Show at the RDE.

We need at least one more International event to get the riders here.

Can be done if anyone actually cares.

Otherwise we remain the unnoticed breeders of other people's great horses...

What's the saying?Fools breed the horses for wise men to buy...:D

togster

Really good points Kelly.

But......:D I don't see how giving Irish horses to foreign riders is going to help?
Maybe i miss read your post? I see the point you're making about attracting foreign riders to set up here and that having a beneficial effect on the sport though.

I also don't think dressage is not emphasized wnough in Ireland at early ages in both horse and rider development. But thats a minor issue in comparison to the export of talented horses.

Kelly O'Malley

[quote=togster;

But......:D I don't see how giving Irish horses to foreign riders is going to help?

I wasn't clear enough.We don't GIVE them the horses to take away - we provide them to be ridden FOR IRELAND for the event.

The horses remain here for OUR riders to win on at other events.

But it's not the horses that matter all that much - it's the KNOWLEDGE that our own young riders accumulate from the world's top riders basing themselves here and teaching them!:D:D:D

napoles

The UK has a hell of a lot more tracks than Ireland. I know of one UK-based rider who was at Badminton and this week is planning to compete today and Thursday. That is one factor that UK riders have to their advantage. It is also the reason why so many international riders base themselves there.
In terms of them producing top riders time and again, they have very well-established Start & Potential programmes for their young and up and coming riders. It was no coincidence that they won gold in every level at the European Championships.

Ireland is working very hard to catch up at the moment and more time, money and energy is being put into trying to produce a World Class team while also providing training at grass roots level.

I was at Badminton and it certainly wasn't a dressage competition. Zara Phillips had a dreadful test on Ardfield Magic Star, but still managed to get into the top 20 going into the showjumping.
There was a hell of a lot of luck involved in this year's event, when you consider Mary King's sickening fall at the penultimate fence and both William Fox-Pitt and Michael Ryan having run outs at the same fence.. If it hadn't been for that run out Michael would almost certainly been home inside the time - one of only three.

togster

I thought William and Tamarillo had a run out at the cottage fence? And Michael had a run out at the sunken corner fence? Anyway it's irrelevant. I wasn't having a go at the irish riders. Michael is a fantastic rider but i was wondering as to the gap between the brits and the irsih and the fact that we produce many of the top horses but don't seem to be able to keep them here or compete with them.

napoles

Actually, Togster, you're right. Got myself muddled there.. For some reason i thought William's run out was at the same place as Michael's. There was someone else who got caught out there - i just can't think who it was now!

I know you weren't having a go at the Irish riders and I agree with your points. I'm a bit baffled myself as to why we are still struggling when we clearly have the horses AND the riders. What I was saying is that this year's Badminton was definitely not won on the dressage with so many of the overnight leaders coming to grief in one way or another!

togster

No i thought it was one of the best badmintons in a long time. I love Imperial Cavalier and Mary King. I was gutted with her fall at the Rolex crossing. She would have made the time and gone into first!! She is an amazing rider, IMO so natural and confident and positive. I think it was Connington Bay who ran out of steam at the houses and retired. Im not sure!!

I do know that Eventing Ireland are trying to improve things on an international front. You are right about the Young riders though. The British always have a very strong team from pony teams to Juniors through to Young Riders. It was pointed out that many of the youngsters riding at Badminton had won medals at previous young rider championships so that is a telling factor!

Mark Todd also commentated for a bit and pointed out that the New Zealand team is not as strong as it used to be, because of lack of competition at that level in the southern hemisphere. We really don't have any excuse tbh, granted England have alot of competions but we have quite a few 2* and 3* tracks in Ireland to facilatate preparation of young riders for international championships. I found however that many of the tracks here are not as technical some of the european championships. I know when i competed at european level in ponies that the track we encounterd was bigger and more technically challenging than anything we had encountered. Also i presume population numbers have something to do with it. It seems lately we are finding it hard to send a strong team to international level. Often we have 2-3 very good combinations and this simply isn't good enough to make a mark on a team event. So we often put in all the hard work at an early age, i.e the horse learns the basics of dressage and usually a good education in cross-country and these foreign investors spend lots of money honing these skills.

Also i know that many of our 4/5 y old Event horse champions are speculated by overseas competitiors. I know when i sold my most succesful young horse she didn't even make her first event, she was snapped up by a foreign team, not an indivdual rider. My european pony was also purchased by the German Team and a rider was later scoped for him. So the team had 4 Irish top ponies and later aqquired riders to fit each pony!!! Crazy in a way when you think about it:eek: but you can see the competitive edge start with teenagers and permeate all areas of the older riders.

I'm just rambling here, but i think Eventing Ireland needs to do something more than just set criteria for prospective european or world competitors. Maybe they do? i also think that while the young event horse championship is a great idea, it is showcasing Irish horse but it allows the export of some of the most talented horses in the world.

napoles

I know where you're coming from. Ireland has always been known as somewhere where EVERY horse is for sale. Mind you, I had a nice FEHL horse for an owner a few years ago and when I told a prospective buyer (American) that it wasn't for sale, they complained that none of the horses they were interested in was for sale... So... things are changing, slowly.

Mind you, with the downturn in the economy I think that is swinging back again and people will be wanting to get some money by selling young horses with potential again.

Eventing Ireland is trying to bring about a scheme whereby the most promising young horses are bought by a syndicate system and retained for Irish Riders with a view to the 2012 Olympics. If this could be brought to fruition it could be a very good scheme.