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Downturn on transport - what has been delayed?
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03-05-2008 1:16am#1
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mysterious wrote: »So you want Tullamore to get a second relief road a little further out
it's nonsense to build this for the purpose. It won't solve Tullamore's traffic problems Tullamore is not a blackspot for traffic, it may get busy at rush hour but what town doesn't?
We are talking about a secondary road that carries max 4,000 vehicles a day that is already diverted around the fricken town. It get's another bypass because Cowen said so. It should of waited, as they are other priorities to be dealt with FIRST.
N18 carries max 25,000 vehicles a day around Ennis to around 11,500 around Gort and rising double figures near Oranmore again. Traffic is rapidly growing since the Ennis bypass. Tailbacks are getting redicoulous already. The government were going to build it this year but Dempsy decided to waste a few million on advertising on a nowhere moving T21 and Cown spending at least 100million on his new bypass. The tullamore bypass was not listed high on the T21 yet the atlantic corridor was and that got the back burner while they are digging the tullamore N52 as we speak... silly silly crap.
seriously don't argue with me on this one, this country is like a comedy sketch for dumb planners and people in government.
...OK, you're right! If the said argument for the by-pass is based on traffic levels, then the figures which you quote (they look correct) makes this project look blatantly politically motivated. Of course I think the presence of Brian Cowen in the vicinity did help matters along somewhat (I'd be insane to think otherwise!). However, there's another factor which must enter the equation.
When the National Spatial Strategy was published, there were towns and cities designated as gateway centres around the coast. In addition, a major development triangle for the midlands of which Athlone, Mullingar and Tullamore formed the apexes, was indentified. With population expansion in mind, Tullamore seemed easily the poor relation for road infrastructure - Mullingar has almost an O-Ring (N4 DC to the North, N52 By-pass to the East and South, plus distributor road to the West and South) while Athlone has had its motorway style ring road (5 interchanges) since the early 1990's. This would surely represent a massive imbalance in terms of economic advantage.
With all the above said though, there is an economic downturn, especially in the construction sector, so maybe the case for the Tullamore By-pass is not so sound in the interim. All I can say is...
... Let the balls decide!
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mysterious wrote: »So you want Tullamore to get a second relief road a little further out
it's nonsense to build this for the purpose. It won't solve Tullamore's traffic problems Tullamore is not a blackspot for traffic, it may get busy at rush hour but what town doesn't?
We are talking about a secondary road that carries max 4,000 vehicles a day that is already diverted around the fricken town. It get's another bypass because Cowen said so. It should of waited, as they are other priorities to be dealt with FIRST.
N18 carries max 25,000 vehicles a day around Ennis to around 11,500 around Gort and rising double figures near Oranmore again. Traffic is rapidly growing since the Ennis bypass. Tailbacks are getting redicoulous already. The government were going to build it this year but Dempsy decided to waste a few million on advertising on a nowhere moving T21 and Cown spending at least 100million on his new bypass. The tullamore bypass was not listed high on the T21 yet the atlantic corridor was and that got the back burner while they are digging the tullamore N52 as we speak... silly silly crap.
seriously don't argue with me on this one, this country is like a comedy sketch for dumb planners and people in government.
Mysterious I would love to know where you pull these figures from.
4,000 a day through Tulllmaore just does not seem correct to me anyhow- would you care to give us a link to where you got that figure. That should be N80 AND N52 by the way.
And I cannot see 25,000 a day from the ennis bypass either. The sections between Shannon and Limerick are not the same thing at all to my mind. Traffic is appreciably lighter past Shannon. Again evidence of that figure would be useful.0 -
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Mysterious I would love to know where you pull these figures from.
4,000 a day through Tulllmaore just does not seem correct to me anyhow- would you care to give us a link to where you got that figure. That should be N80 AND N52 by the way.
And I cannot see 25,000 a day from the ennis bypass either. The sections between Shannon and Limerick are not the same thing at all to my mind. Traffic is appreciably lighter past Shannon. Again evidence of that figure would be useful.
Does it not... ok.
Well the N52 figures for Delvin is around 5,133 a.a.d.t. From the nra counter site. Also bear in mind N51 multiplexes here so it will take a good chunk out of the N52 actual.
Traffic levels on the N52 are much smaller than that of any section of N18. Now you can sling shot another farce argument if you want. Your obviously not familar with this road, as you have not seen the traffic that used to passed through Ennis and Clarecastle on a daily basis lol. Even back before the Newmarket on fergus bypass(pop less than 1,000) had occaisonal few mile tailbacks. this was 7 years ago.
I have cousins who live beside the N52. I also go on my observation and commen sense. which I believe I have. As a child I used to travel this road a lot and still do. I'm familar with every town on the route. I have travelled the entire lenght of the N52 from Nenagh to Dundalk too. On all long distance national routes long distance traffic is generally lowest middway between the two main destinations. I.e Tullamore been fairly midway.
I say i can clearly estimate the level of traffic that uses this road. And I will safely say I know a damn lot about roads too.
Tullamore bypass was politically driven end of story. There is already bypass there to direct the few thousands cars out of the town. I tell you the difference it cost a hell of alot more, which is not needed in terms of priority at this stage! Hear that point.
Traffic counters between Shannon and Cratloe already is over 35,000 a day. 28,000 just before the N19 Intersection. The ennis bypass is "around" 25,000 max, maybe less, if you still want to argue that.:rolleyes:. Since the Ennis bypass (i have travelled it recently) traffic growth on the S2 lane road has reached almost capacity and tailbacks through Gort have detrioriated. So I think I made a good estimate, considering there are no counters on the Ennis bypass.
This section is the most dangerous btw. The level of commerce and H.G.V that use this road is also high, being the main Cork/Galway via limerick Corridor. With the Limerick tunnel nearing completion, this route will the most important road outside of Dublin economically. You are been ridicoulous in arguing for the N52 over these circumstances. To top it all, N18 is now on the long finger.
N52 traffic through Tullamore would not be anyway near the levels of the N18. If there is any congestion in Tullamore, (which IM0 is nothing to talk about) its majorly local generated.
The relief road is perfect, so Town centre traffic is irrelevant to this topic and your pathetic arguement:)
I'd say give it over. Everyone knows that the Tullamore bypass was politically driven and not needed in comparison to some projects of the T21 which are now sickingly shelved
You must be buddy buddy with Cowen so.:D
I hope logic holds true, to your brain...0 -
Pray tell what exactly has Delvin got to do with Tullamore
??? Apart from being 30 miles away on the same route is all I can think anyhow, which clearly has nothing to do with Tullamore.
Is that what you base 4,000 a day on through Tullamore then and of course your own anecdotal observations outside your cousins house there. And most importantly lets not forget your opinion that Tullamore has no traffic problems; if you have that opinion you clearly have never sat been stuck in the place like many of the rest of us.
Anyhow once again great to see the project underway.
And you're telling me to be logical
And personally having travelled between Ennis and Galway bar Gort and Crusheen it is not that bad a road for the most part at all.
Travelled the Ennis bypass on many a week day I struggle to see where 25,000 a day is coming from. Again you have no concrete figure to back that one up.0 -
`Pray tell what exactly has Delvin got to do with Tullamore??? Apart from being 30 miles away on the same route is all I can think anyhow, which clearly has nothing to do with Tullamore.
Is that what you base 4,000 a day on through Tullamore then and of course your own anecdotal observations outside your cousins house there. And most importantly lets not forget your opinion that Tullamore has no traffic problems; if you have that opinion you clearly have never sat been stuck in the place like many of the rest of us.
Anyhow once again great to see the project underway.
And you're telling me to be logical
And personally having travelled between Ennis and Galway bar Gort and Crusheen it is not that bad a road for the most part at all.
Travelled the Ennis bypass on many a week day I struggle to see where 25,000 a day is coming from. Again you have no concrete figure to back that one up.
Delvin and Tullmmore are both on the N52 and you say only 30 miles apart. N52 is busier here as it multiplexes with N51. still a relevant fact to give way so some idea of what kind of traffic uses this road. plus the fact it's Tullamore nearest traffic counter. the traffic you sit in, is locally generated the bypass is only diverting traffic off the relief road onto the new road further out. see the point?
This section of N18 is a bad road considering the amount of traffic using it, your memory is not up to date. Its a windy narrow S2 road with even Z shape bends and no hard shoulders for much of its length, traffic actually has to stop to allow a H.G.V to make the turn just a few miles past the Ennis bypass end. It then has to go through Gort a bad bottleneck. It's actually the worst section of N18. So you've proved to everyone you don't actually know much.
Yes you are struggling i see that.0 -
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