Registering a converted van as camper - height problems!

timaaaaay

Hi all,
I bought a Transit converted to camper (semi-high roof) which had been imported from the UK over a year ago but never registered in Ireland.
The fact that it is only semi-high roof means that is falls a little short of the min 1.8m to get it reg’d as a camper, the guy in the local tax office confirmed this the other day and said I would have to get it reg’d as commercial which will mean cheaper VRT initially but more expensive road tax, also will make it much harder for me to sell later I’d imagine. I did not have the van with me when I called to the tax office as I just wanted to make some preliminary enquiries. I got it insured as a camper without any probs (sent photos, eng report etc to insurance company).
Just wondering has anyone here got a converted van of less internal height than 1.8m successfully registered as a camper?
I’m thinking of bringing to another tax (VRT) office to get it inspected, i.e playing dumb about the height thing, and act like I expect it to be a formality.
It’s fully kitted out as a camper inside so I couldn’t be accused of pulling a fast one and just looking for cheaper road tax on a van!

Any advice appreciated!

peasant

Chances are slim I'd say ...they've had the interior height thing going for years and a measuring tape is a VRT inspectors' best friend.

But as you've successfully mastered the most difficult hurdle (getting insurance for a camper that isn't registered as a camper), I wouldn't worry too much. The cheaper commercial VRT will keep you in tax and DOE money for a few years.

And god knows what the regulations will be when you come to sell it ..really, I wouldn't worry too much ...just don't let the insurance lapse ...you might not get it again elsewhere.

timaaaaay

Thanks peasant for reply.

Re insurance: they don't request to see any docs of the van but they do quote the 1.8m also.
Interestingly I had looked into the option of getting insured thru the Motorcaravan club and in their booklet showing the different types of campers there is a section on converted vans that are only about 6 feet height in total (much less internal), not sure what the story is with insuring them as a camper though.

Re the savings - unfortunately not as good as you had suggested because the van only cost €2700 which should reduce the VRT a bit so by the second/third year I'll be at a loss compared to if I manage to get it reg'd as a camper. I'll give it a go anyway, hopefully VRT man leaves his measuring tape at home that day, nothing to lose, it definitely wont be as easy sell it than if it's reg'd as a camper.

peasant

VRT has nothing whatsover to do with how much you paid for the van ...what are you thinking

Your friendly VRT inspector will give you the "good news" that your converted van has an "open market selling price" of at least 8000-10000 Euro (or therabouts) and you will pay 13.5% on that

stapeler

It might work in your favour that it's not 1.8m, you could argue that it's a camper but not a "real" camper because of it's height. They may decide to reduce price. Worst case you're looking at 30% of say €4000-5000 possibly a bit more. Your tax savings would be a possible €400 per year so you're looking at a 2-3 year payback.
Isn't it 30% if it's under 1.8meter?

Billy Bunting

My conversion is just about ready for inspection, meets all there criteria, and i went out of my way to make the height 1.85m, if the VRT value it too much for me i plan on simply lifting the carpet and inserting a sheet of 10mm ply, then when the ba5tards come to lift it i'll tell them it doesn't meet the criteria.

timaaaaay

peasant wrote: »

Your friendly VRT inspector will give you the "good news" that your converted van has an "open market selling price" of at least 8000-10000 Euro (or therabouts) and you will pay 13.5% on that

stapeler wrote: »

Isn't it 30% if it's under 1.8meter?

30% 13% ?!

The point about the reduced height reducing the value will only come into play if they will actually classify it as a camper rather than commercial, otherwise its the comemrical VRT of €50.

Would really like like to know though if anyone here has managed to register an under 1.8m converted van as a camper, need to get moving on this soon enough,

Thanks.

oldguysrip

Will there now be an issue with seats in the back of the van as it's now registered commercial rather than camper ?

timaaaaay

Hello again,
I spent about 2 months traveling around Europe last summer in the van on the UK reg and it is now mainly left idle.

Still am at a loss as to how I will attempt to register it:

My local mechanic told me that if it is refused to be reg'd as a camper due to the height issue then in order to get it registered commercially I will need to remove all the camper "stuff" from the back for the DOE. Can anyone confirm this? Oldguysrip kinda suggests the same in his post below.

Someone suggested to me the option of obtaining a cheap high roof van of the same model and replacing the roof, thus solving the height issue. I haven't done much looking into this yet but am not 100% sure that there is a high roof model of the Transit LWB (1989). Googling didnt reveal much, if anyone knows off-hand their input would be much appreciated.

Lastly, I know this is my 3rd time asking this, so apologies for the repetition but has anyone here managed to register a converted camper van of less than 1.8m interior standing room?

oldguysrip

Mate there is not a chance of camper registration under 1.8m. The issue is mainly seats in the back. You can get away with windows with some contact pvc over them. You could always take the seats out (rock & roll bed ?) for the DOE. The cooker & sink should be ok. However if you do want to rip them out I'm in the market

stapeler

A couple of options.
Install a pop up roof, not ideal as you'll still have to pay vrt of 30%. It would allow you to tax and insure at camper rates.
Another option is to register it as a private vehicle. Pay reduced VRT but pay private insurance and tax. It won't need a DOE or NCT but you'd need to ensure insurance company and okay with it.
Whatever happens avoid getting caught driving it without VRTing it in Ireland as the fines can be quiet hefty.

Richie15

stapeler wrote: »

It won't need a DOE or NCT...

Is that for a private van, or a camper?

stapeler

Both. There's currently no DOE or NCT requirment for a Camper. If you tax a commercial van privately then it's exempt from both DOE and NCT. Some sort of loophole that they never fixed.

timaaaaay

Thanks all for the replies, much appreciated.

I visited my local tax office today to try get some info from them on what I could do without committing to anything. I was told my only option of registering the van in its current state is to register it as a passenger vehicle. This involves supplying them with photographs of the vehicle and they will get back to me in a day or two with their estimated value and what VRT I have to pay. This also means very high road tax (on a 2.5 litre!) and probably high insurance unless I can keep up the current camper policy I have. I will probably go down this route for a start just to see what the import duty would be if it is considered a passenger vehicle.

Install a pop up roof, not ideal as you'll still have to pay vrt of 30%. It would allow you to tax and insure at camper rates.

I want to pay the VRT of 30% as I want camper rates of tax and insurance and this would also make selling the van in future a lot easier. Any suggestions on where to get a pop-up roof, likely cost, amount of work involved in installing it?

Lastly, I'm confused between commercial vehicle, private vehicle and passenger vehicle. Can somebody please clarify? Are private and passenger considered the same?

Thanks again to all.

stapeler

Here's a crowd in the UK that install custom roofs. Not sure if they do Transits. Just to give you an ideas. http://www.wentworthmc.co.uk also do conversions in the UK. Another option is to find somebody to build a custom GRP/Fibreglass roof. Google around and something might come up. There's a few pieces on youtube about the process.
Reguarding private & passenger vehicles, I think they are the same thing. Motor tax on a 2.5litre would be near €1000, Motor tax on a commercial it would be around €200.

octyvrs

timaaaaay wrote: »

I want to pay the VRT of 30% as I want camper rates of tax and insurance and this would also make selling the van in future a lot easier. Any suggestions on where to get a pop-up roof, likely cost, amount of work involved in installing it?
.

I presume you mean you want to pay 13.3% vrt as this is the motorcaravan rate.
if somehow you managed to clear it as a camper the motor tax office will want to inspect it also on its first taxing, and depending on the council/authority you go to ,they have the same criteria as the vrt crowd so if you get away with the height once,you'd want to be very lucky a second time.
btw the vrt offices insist the 1.8m rule is at the lowest point which i found they are very strict with.

octyvrs

stapeler wrote: »

A couple of options.
Install a pop up roof, not ideal as you'll still have to pay vrt of 30%. It would allow you to tax and insure at camper rates.

you can not tax at the camper rate of (€85) unless the vehicle has been registered with the vrt crowd first as a camper , 'B ' class is for a motorcaravan which will be on the motor tax application form which the vrt provides when cleared.

timaaaaay

Thanks Stapeler and octyvrs, sounds like a pop-up roof wouldnt satisfy the VRT man's min 1.8m though??

Just to add to the confusion, I saw an identical converted van for sale yesterday (same height) and the owner told me it is registered as a camper but that was done by the previous owner and he didn't know any more about it

I have booklets from the motorcaravan association of Ireland which they sent me when I enquired about joining and it states that a van with interior height under 1.8m, engine size over 1.9 litres and weight of less than 3 tonnes will be charged 30% VRT but it didnt state whether it would then be registered as a camper or not!

octyvrs

the motorcaravan club may accept it as a camper for insurance purposes?? but there is no way it could be registered with the vrt/rosslare as a camper...

peasant

octyvrs wrote: »

the motorcaravan club may accept it as a camper for insurance purposes?? but there is no way it could be registered with the vrt/rosslare as a camper...

Not any more ...seemingly.

There are plenty of pop-up roofed registered campers about to prove that it DID work once upon a time.

stapeler

In it's current state you're looking at 30% VRT(CatA). If you're happy to pay that then it's motor tax office you need to convince. A phone call to them will clarify how they measure height. ie. are pop-ups treated differently? probably not.
If it's going to cost hundreds to tax it annually then you're probably best scrapping the idea, go buy a high top and transfer all the equipment over.
Other option as mentioned before is to have a custom built fibreglass roof installed. Might cost a thousand euro but saving €600+ a year on road tax would quickly pay for it.
Out of curiousity what is the current internal height?
Have you spoken to the likes of type2Ireland to see if they have members in a similar predicament.