Jailed for dish (lack of actually) - Not a joke

wil

Single mother spends night in Mountjoy for having satellite dish.
Welll actually for dish she had up and is no longer.
Going to get a mention on todays News at One AFAIK
http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/content/index.php?aid=11708


"HeeHaw HeeHaw HeeHaw" is I imagine what the judge said after another good day in court:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

GalwayAdvertiser wrote:

A local woman has slammed the Galway City Council after she spent Monday night in Dublin’s harsh Mountjoy Prison because of a satellite dish she removed more than two years ago.
The 31-year-old single mother of two, who lives in local council housing, spent Monday night in the medium security prison more than two years after she was informed that the council was taking her to court over the dish on the outside of her building, which they said was illegal according to planning regulations.
When the woman failed to show up for her court appearance she received a letter informing her that she must pay the €450 fine or alternatively spend the night in jail.

read the rest yourself, appalling (well relatively speaking in the world of appalling events).
Galway Co Co have yet to respond to a request to comment.

(HeeHaw HeeHaw HEEHAW)

I wonder would a solicitor out there be interested in taking a case for this blatant denial of rights on so many levels.:eek::mad:

Tony

I wonder would sky have a "duty of care " in this unfortunate matter.?

muffler

Maybe the legal forum or consumer issues might be a better place for this.

Tony

muffler wrote: »

Maybe the legal forum or consumer issues might be a better place for this.

What harm is it doing here? I'm sure its of interest to anyone who has a dish on the front of their house.

muffler

Tony wrote: »

What harm is it doing here? I'm sure its of interest to anyone who has a dish on the front of their house.

No harm at all Tony if the mods are happy with it.

At the crux of the issue is a breach of planning legislation and the womans failure to act on enforcement proceedings taken against here. Its widely known (at least I think it is anyhow) that planning permission is required for a dish on the front of a house.

The OP was referring more to the justice system than the dish and thats why I suggested that it might be better off in a different forum.

wil

muffler wrote: »

Maybe the legal forum or consumer issues might be a better place for this.

"Right to erect a dish" is a subject regularly raised in the "Satellite" forum and has been discussed at much length here already with clear conclusions.
I think it's safe enough to discuss it here.
Discussion elsewhere (including court) seems to miss the point.
Under EU law - "It's a right"

syboit

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

not sure if this is uptodate or classed as the same thing , but under class4:

"3. No such antenna shall be erected on, or forward of, the front wall of the house."

You'd think though the council would have better things to do rather than wasting time on this!!!

part 1 is even more interesting: "1. Not more than one such antenna shall be erected on, or within the curtilage of a house."

Tony

muffler wrote: »

The OP was referring more to the justice system than the dish and thats why I suggested that it might be better off in a different forum.

Fair point

wil

muffler wrote: »

At the crux of the issue is a breach of planning legislation and the womans failure to act on enforcement proceedings taken against here. Its widely known (at least I think it is anyhow) that planning permission is required for a dish on the front of a house.
.

At the crux of the issue is the denial of rights to use a satellite dish under EU "Freedom of Services"

Planning regulations covering dishes and legal enforcement thereof by any party take no precedence over these rights. Quite the opposite, they must enshrine that right.

muffler

syboit wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

not sure if this is uptodate or classed as the same thing , but under class4:

"3. No such antenna shall be erected on, or forward of, the front wall of the house."

You'd think though the council would have better things to do rather than wasting time on this!!!

part 1 is even more interesting: "1. Not more than one such antenna shall be erected on, or within the curtilage of a house."

That is indeed the case. Like it or lump it we are stuck with it for now.

wil wrote: »

"Right to erect a dish" is a subject regularly raised in the "Satellite" forum and has been discussed at much length here already with clear conclusions.
I think it's safe enough to discuss it here.
Discussion elsewhere (including court) seems to miss the point.
Under EU law - "It's a right"

In fairness I dont post very often in this forum so I am not familiar with past threads on similar issues.

It was only a suggestion I made based on the content of your first post so please dont take any offense.

muffler

wil wrote: »

At the crux of the issue is the denial of rights to use a satellite dish under EU "Freedom of Services"

Planning regulations covering dishes and legal enforcement thereof by any party take no precedence over these rights. Quite the opposite, they must enshrine that right.

And that is why I suggested a move to the legal forum maybe.

Onikage

wil wrote: »

At the crux of the issue is the denial of rights to use a satellite dish under EU "Freedom of Services"

Planning regulations covering dishes and legal enforcement thereof by any party take no precedence over these rights. Quite the opposite, they must enshrine that right.

There are laws enshrining the right to a home as well, but that doesn't mean you can build one anywhere. If there is no alternative location for the dish to be mounted, then it should have been granted permission. I know people who have been granted permission to chimney mount dishes for this reason. Maybe we don't have the full story...

fat-tony

It's a bloody interesting piece of legislation, though:

No more than one satellite dish within the curtilage of a property :eek:

Maximum diameter of 1 metre :eek:

That's me hosed then :eek:

The_Conductor

fat-tony wrote: »

Maximum diameter of 1 metre :eek:

Craddocks. Thats me gone too.... I have a sky dish (80cm) and a 1.4m motorised (for other uses )

muffler

Ah hah! So there is more than me in breach of the planning regulations :eek:

We'll be all damned to hell.


Edit: For anyone who wants the short answer about dishes and aeriels (and other matters around the house) Leaflet PL5 from the Dept. of Environment is very informative. Q12 refers to dishes

wil

Onikage wrote: »

There are laws enshrining the right to a home as well, .....

I am not aware of any such law, but even if there was, lets not go down the road of farcical arguments to illustrate a right.
Its all been said before.

Muffler - no offense taken, I dont offend so easily:)
Offensive is putting a woman in prison for nonpayment of a fine imposed for perceived "dish offences"

Those of us who speak plain English would prefer this topic remain where said language is spoken.

For some legal info - Knock yourself out
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/ecomm/doc/info_centre/communic_reports/satellite_dish/antenna_en.pdf
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/cm/617/617113/617113en.pdf
and discussion
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055124066&page=3
last 2 pages
Management companies or county councils - same EU regulations apply.
Lisbon treaty aside - EU law takes precedence over national law.
Fear not Fat Tony - we are right behind you all the way to the EU courts.:D

syboit

muffler wrote: »

Ah hah! So there is more than me in breach of the planning regulations :eek:

You and probably more than half of the regular posters on here

Onikage

wil wrote: »

I am not aware of any such law,

Ireland signed the International Covenant on Economic Social and Cultural Rights in 1953. Article 11.1 is pretty clear about the right to housing.

The Housing Act of 1988 goes some way towards implementing this.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/act/pub/0028/index.html

wil wrote: »

but even if there was, lets not go down the road of farcical arguments to illustrate a right.
Its all been said before.

There is no need to troll. By the logic you have presented, it would be acceptable to mount a 50m dish on your roof without planning permission. But I didn't choose to dismiss you or describe your words as "farcical".

GerardKeating

wil wrote: »

At the crux of the issue is the denial of rights to use a satellite dish under EU "Freedom of Services"

Slightly more complicated that that, it was not her house, it is acouncil house. Any person (even the council) has a right to limit any alternations to a property they rent out to others.

Onikage

GerardKeating wrote: »

Slightly more complicated that that, it was not her house, it is acouncil house. Any person (even the council) has a right to limit any alternations to a property they rent out to others.

I'm sure I've seen one or two council houses with dishes!

Even then it's not always a problem unless someone lodges a complaint (which could be defeated).

fat-tony

wil wrote: »

At the crux of the issue is the denial of rights to use a satellite dish under EU "Freedom of Services"

Planning regulations covering dishes and legal enforcement thereof by any party take no precedence over these rights. Quite the opposite, they must enshrine that right.

The Statutory Instrument referred to actually enshrined that right to a satellite dish - except it put restrictions on location (on aesthetic grounds presumably), on size and on number (i.e. no more than one). Wonder what Watty will have to say about his dish farm?

So - don't go off half-cocked about inalienable rights (or EU given rights) to erection of satellite dish(es). I personally was unaware of the existence of any law restricting the location of dishes, but I would assume that there would have to be some measure of control. Mine are tucked away on the back of my house;)

However, the real disgrace is that this unfortunate lady has had to spend time in the clink for a minor planning rule infraction since rectified.

watty

Aside from issue of a dish (and plenty are mounted on council houses on rear on tall pole so as to view up across the roof), is the fact the fine was €450 and she offered to pay in installments. She is poor.

What next deportation to Austrailia for shop lifting? It's a disproprotionate pre-victorian response.

The jail was nothing to do with the dish, but archaic response to non-payment of fine.

If you don't own the property you can't drill holes and mount stuff. They can't do you for a dish clamped to balcony (but not front) or sitting on balcony.

Mr. Presentable

Maybe it's a country thing, but what the smeg does this mean?

“This is a holy divine’s grace that a single mother with two kids is going to prison over a satellite dish,” said the woman

But importantly, she didn't get jail for the dish, she got the large fine and the option of a night in jail for failing to turn up in court.

muffler

In unauthorised developments cases such as this there is a lengthy enough process involved long before it goes to court. The woman concerned would have received several warning letters asking her to either remove the dish or apply for permission to retain it. If no action is taken by her she would then have been served with an enforcement notice and that would have been followed up with a final warning notice. She would have been advised in writing that she would be liable to pay the costs involved if the matter did go to court. All in all the entire enforcement proceedings can take up to 12 to 24 months before it goes to court.

Without knowing the full details it would appear that the lady in question was not too cooperative based on the process I described above and bear in mind we have only been told one side of the story. I would suspect that the fine was more of a part payment of the Council's costs rather than a fine for the "offense" itself.

But why oh why did the council pick on such a vulnerable person when Im sure there are hundreds if not thousands of other houses in their administrative area that have dishes up on the front wall of the house yet they have taken no action against.

Unfortunately when it would have went to court the judge would have had no option other than to convict but would have had discretion in relation to the fine.

The_Conductor

nipplenuts wrote: »

Maybe it's a country thing, but what the smeg does this mean?

You're obviously not a red-dwarf fan?

Mr. Presentable

smccarrick wrote: »

You're obviously not a red-dwarf fan?

hehe

I was alluding to this:

"... holy divine’s grace ..."

pjq

While Galway City Council was chasing this woman down last summer , they were not able to provide drinking water to the city ( can't do 2 things at one time! ) . Finally someone has done jail time for the water mess.
If you take the view that the matter is strictly related to "Planning" and not to water provision . Well the same applies ,, finally a judge who will jail those who flout the republics planning regulations .
Those involved in the chain that culminated in the jailing of this woman must feel great?
pjq