Customers smoking and drinking in a work van?

cormie

Hi,
Just wondering if any of you legal eagles could clear up the law regarding this. Just say hypothetically I happened to have my own van business :pac: and I was picking up a band after a gig and dropping them and their gear back and they decided to take some bottles of beer for the trip home and smoked out the window, if I have a commercially signed van (with graphics etc) could I be letting myself in for trouble if I let them smoke or drink in the van?

What would be the penalty in both cases?

Also, just imagine, the band is a 3 piece and there's only two passenger seats and one hops in the back, what is the penalty for carrying a passenger in the back and is it their responsibility if they are over a certain age or am I responsible or how does it work?

haz

cormie wrote: »

if I have a commercially signed van (with graphics etc) could I be letting myself in for trouble if I let them smoke or drink in the van?

I am guessing, but if the van is owned by a business and decorated in their livery, then it is a workplace and smoking is not permitted. If the van is not owned by the business then it is a workplace when being used for business purposes. I don't know if there is a grey area where a business-owned van is used (with the owner's consent) for the employee's private affairs, or who exactly would police it.

A local environmental health officer could give an instant answer for free.

Del2005

Once you are being paid it's a workplace so smokng is illegal. How you'd get caught would be another question. Since it's your own van there may be other issues here, you often see taxi drivers smoking in their car when "off duty".

You where untill recently only insured to carry the amount of people in a vehicle that it has passenger seats for, but someone won a case after they where injured in the back of a van not sure if it creates a precedence (sp?).

The Gardai could do you for something if someone is in the back of a van, it's the drivers responsiblity to make sure their load is safe and secure. Don't know how you'd secure someone in the back of a van:D

grumpytrousers

It's one of those things, like making a copy of a CD for your car, that's illegal but you gotta ask 'who the hell is going to catch you, and how?'

for instance, if the Gardai raid a pub at half four in the morning and there's freshly poured pints and everybody is smoking, they can do nothing about the latter; it's up to the Office for Tobacco Control and they can, i believe, only act upon either a spot check conducted by themselves or upon foot of a complaint by a member of the public. That's why, er, I've heard of pubs breaking out the ashtrays after hours on the grounds that the odds on a person already breaking the law for being on a licensed premises late is hardly going to ring and complain about the stink of the old coot in the corner puffing on his Woodbines.

Similarly with the bloke in the van. Somebody would have to complain and tip off the health brigade, who'd have to see people smoking in the van...or have an independent witness, willing to push it, say that they saw somebody smoking in the van.

Victor

grumpytrousers wrote: »

It's one of those things, like making a copy of a CD for your car, that's illegal but you gotta ask 'who the hell is going to catch you, and how?'

Irrelevant - its like saying "who's going to catch me murdering my flatmate?"

Carrying a passenger in a cargo space is an offence under the Road Traffic Acts. It will also freak out your insurance company if there is an accident. Its the driver's repsonbility to control his vehicle and passengers.

Smoking in a workplace is illegel. If it was your private can and you were giving your friends a lift on an occassional basis (as opposed to you being a band member / roadie as part of the business of being a band), that might be another matter.

Alcohol isn't an issue, other that drunk people being a nuisance and you are more likely to get the attention of a garda at a drink/drive inspection.

cormie

That's cool about alcohol not being an issue, but I thought I read on here before that if there is anyone drunk, or a bottle/can of alcohol in the car at the time of an incident, it will be classed as a drink driving incident

Just another thing, what happens if a passenger roles down the window to chuck a cigarette/chewingum/whatever outside and somebody reports the reg for littering?

mikemac

cormie wrote: »

That's cool about alcohol not being an issue, but I thought I read on here before that if there is anyone drunk, or a bottle/can of alcohol in the car at the time of an incident, it will be classed as a drink driving incident

Possibly that's an offence under US law and it's just well known here from TV.
This is why in some states you cannot put your 6 pack of beer on the passenger seat and drive home. You need to put them in the boot or get a bag for them.

And never have a open bottle/can when driving :eek:

If it's an offense in Ireland then I can't quote the legislation

McCrack

If a garda sees litter being dropped from the van and is bothered he/she can issue a fine to the registered owner of the vehicle as can a litter warden.

A member of the public can report what they saw to the gardai but nothing will be done. It would be like thanks for the phonecall Mrs Busybody you just wasted 30cent.

seamus

Alcohol, isn't an issue. It was discussed recently enough on the motors forum. There is nothing illegal about the passengers (or indeed the driver!) drinking alcohol in a vehicle, commercial or otherwise.

mikemac

seamus wrote: »

Alcohol, isn't an issue. It was discussed recently enough on the motors forum. There is nothing illegal about the passengers (or indeed the driver!) drinking alcohol in a vehicle, commercial or otherwise.

Ok, I accept what you’ve posted Seamus but I’ve also read about people being charged with drink driving when they are just sitting in the car.
Example: Joe has 6 pints and sits into his car and decides to sleep it off. He puts the key in the ignition to turn on the heaters and then tries to go to sleep. Then he gets charged of drink driving (or technically in charge of a vehicle while drunk)
It’s been raised a few times in the motors section, possibly you’ve seen it.

So imagine the OP here is driving their passenger home and the passenger is locked and drinking cans. The OP pops into the shop and leaves the passenger alone, will they get charged or at least tested?
It kinda goes against your post

Bogger77

micmclo wrote: »

Ok, I accept what you’ve posted Seamus but I’ve also read about people being charged with drink driving when they are just sitting in the car.
Example: Joe has 6 pints and sits into his car and decides to sleep it off. He puts the key in the ignition to turn on the heaters and then tries to go to sleep. Then he gets charged of drink driving (or technically in charge of a vehicle while drunk)
It’s been raised a few times in the motors section, possibly you’ve seen it.

So imagine the OP here is driving their passenger home and the passenger is locked and drinking cans. The OP pops into the shop and leaves the passenger alone, will they get charged or at least tested?
It kinda goes against your post

In that case, the OP would be a muppet to leave the keys in his van.
Tough on the passenger, if they listening to the radio, etc.

seamus

micmclo wrote: »

So imagine the OP here is driving their passenger home and the passenger is locked and drinking cans. The OP pops into the shop and leaves the passenger alone, will they get charged or at least tested?
It kinda goes against your post

Not really, the passenger drinking is irrelevant. If he's pissed and he's in front of the wheel then he can be charged with drink driving.

It's not illegal to *drink* in a vehicle, it's illegal to be *drunk in charge* of a vehicle.

Two very different different thing, you'll accept.

Your specific scenario is probably more the driver's fault than anything. However, I would say a Garda would have a tough time proving that the passenger was in charge of the vehicle - you usually have to be in the driver's seat, regardless of whether the keys are in the ignition.

Maximilian

I remember one case where some guy got into his car pissed & turned his ignition on to get the heater going. Claimed he was never going to drive it yet was charged & I presume convicted (can't remember)

Bogger77

seamus wrote: »

Not really, the passenger drinking is irrelevant. If he's pissed and he's in front of the wheel then he can be charged with drink driving.

It's not illegal to *drink* in a vehicle, it's illegal to be *drunk in charge* of a vehicle.

Two very different different thing, you'll accept.

Your specific scenario is probably more the driver's fault than anything. However, I would say a Garda would have a tough time proving that the passenger was in charge of the vehicle - you usually have to be in the driver's seat, regardless of whether the keys are in the ignition.

In a van, where it's easy to slip from driver to passenger seat, it'd be advisible to to test this out

McCrack

Bogger77 wrote: »

In a van, where it's easy to slip from driver to passenger seat, it'd be advisible to to test this out

Only if the copper doesn't see the driver doing the aul seat switch. I know of a incident some years ago where four friends were driving home from Dublin city. They came across a checkpoint on Ranelagh Road. Luckily for the driver (who was over the limit) there was a few cars in front of his. This allowed him to hop into the back without the Gardai seeing. The others cars moved on and their car just remained stationary!! Three in the back and the passenger all tanked!!

Nobody would admit who was driving. Garda couldn't do anything..

Del2005

micmclo wrote: »

Ok, I accept what you’ve posted Seamus but I’ve also read about people being charged with drink driving when they are just sitting in the car.
Example: Joe has 6 pints and sits into his car and decides to sleep it off. He puts the key in the ignition to turn on the heaters and then tries to go to sleep. Then he gets charged of drink driving (or technically in charge of a vehicle while drunk)
It’s been raised a few times in the motors section, possibly you’ve seen it.

So imagine the OP here is driving their passenger home and the passenger is locked and drinking cans. The OP pops into the shop and leaves the passenger alone, will they get charged or at least tested?
It kinda goes against your post

If you are getting into a car to sleep it off and need the heater, sleep on the back seat. If sleeping in the drivers seat stick the keys in the glove box. Once you not in control of the vehicle your OK.

As for the OP going into a shop, a Guard may think the passenger was driving. But when the OP comes out and says what are you doing testing my passenger, in a van registered to the OP, it would want to be one **** of a Garda to do the passenger.

GerardKeating

cormie wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if any of you legal eagles could clear up the law regarding this. Just say hypothetically I happened to have my own van business :pac: and I was picking up a band after a gig and dropping them and their gear back and they decided to take some bottles of beer for the trip home and smoked out the window, if I have a commercially signed van (with graphics etc) could I be letting myself in for trouble if I let them smoke or drink in the van?

If they are paying for you to transport them, then you might need a hackney licence, and the van is public transport, and no smoking..

cormie

Nah, I'd be paid to transport the gear and they would just pop along for the ride