"Global Warming" - not an issue - can us car enthusiasts now be left in peace?

E92

Our Green party and other political parties buy into all this emissions nonsense.

But why? I think they have a severe dose of Schadenfreude.

They hate cars and have invented CO2 as a way forcing us to buy cars that will kill us today with all the toxic diesel fumes.

What it amounts too IMO is that they are jealous of the fact that some of us like cars, and they either have a phobia or they're jealous that we can afford them and want us brought down to their level.

As a German friend of mine said about Germany and speed limits on the Autobahn, "those who want speed limits can't afford fast cars and they want everyone else brought down to their level and be forced to buy slow cars".

CO2 taxing is a farce. It's all big expensive cars the ones that make cars interesting that are hit hardest. Well car taxing is a farce, end of story:D.

It turns out that the temperatures on planet earth have shock horror been actually falling for the past 2 years, and now the Scientists are telling us that Global Warming won't start up again until 2020, or 12 years away. The polar ice caps which we're all supposed to be worried about because there mightn't be polar bears in a few years time have increased in size since 1986.

So can all the greenies, car haters etc bug the hell off and let us enjoy cars?

Can Germany be allowed to do what it should always be allowed to do i.e. drive on speed limit free Autobahns?

Can we have a tax on the fuel rather than some made up theory when you buy a new car?

Can the EU now finally shut up about the ridiculous idea of even Motorways having a speed limit as low as 90 km/h throughout the EU? There's clearly no need to do this for the sake of the environment. Some nutty EU organisation said the other day that we'd all have to slow down for the sake of the environment(it was the ETSC I think). Its another nail in the coffin for the anti speeding nonsense of course, which is always good. We don't need to slow down to protect the planet, so what do we need to other than it being the law?

Same goes to RedKen and his laughable idea of a £25 congestion charge(please God Boris Johnson will replace him, it's time Britain had a more car friendly party in power)?

Sources:http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=160&t=34392
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=160&t=34674

What are your opinions on all this?

peasant

Regardless of whether or not CO2 is a problem or if global warming exists or not ...motorists will always be made pay. They have been for decades and it will only get worse.

Also, all environmental issues aside, it is ludicrous to burn up such a valuable and very finite resource as oil just for fun in our cars. As the motor industry (coupled with the oil industry) has no interest in changing that, maybe it IS necessary for governements to step in and force the issue towards alternative fuels and alternative modes of transport.

unkel

Nice rant

E92 wrote: »

Can we have a tax on the fuel rather than some made up theory when you buy a new car?

This can not be quoted often enough. Maybe someone can start a real green party?

C.D.

Thread is a joke with links to politics.ie, telegraph.co.uk

If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest finding a peer-reviewed scientific publication that supports your claims.

If you read them, you'd see that the talk is that the "cooling cycle" will counteract global warming thus temperatures remaining stable. Thus not "Global Warming won't start up again" - the core issue of the ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere remains.

Diesel fumes are toxiz due to carbon monoxide and small particulate matter, nothing to do with CO2.

PS. Do you know who "invented" CO2 then?

C.D.

PPS, tax on fuel would be the real deal. Unfortunately due to the CPI etc etc it will never happen.

stratos

The worrying part is, I was wondering to myself how long would they run the two tax streams beside each other ( pre july apres july annual tax rates). As I drive an older bigger car I was wondering how long I had left before I would be assimilated.

Then to my horror I read about the english sneaking it into their budget and telling noone.

I know eventually I will have to drive a diesel Opel Corsa.:mad:.

One problem I do foresee is that Europe is making manufacturers clean up the diesels soot emmisions. The problem is these new clean diesels have higher co 2 emmisions. So even diesels will have higher annual tax.

Maybe co 2 and not nox should be called laughing gas as the politicians are laughing all the way to the bank.

astraboy

Well said E92!:)

As regards oil supplies, the issue is not that there is not enough of the black stuff left, it is that drill operations, exploration companies and refineries are operating at capacity. This is limiting the market supply, and given the high demand, prices have gone up. It will take a few years before the required engineers and staff have been trained, the equipment is built, and wells in inhospitable areas are sunk.

My source for the above is last Sundays Business section of the Sunday times, not sure if its online but I'll post up the name of the writer later.

I do believe the whole Global warming thing has been blown out of all proportion. How did the ice age end, people driving large engined corvettes and BMW's was it?!:D Also, read recently that temps have gone up over the last 10 years on Mars, obviously those nasty martians must stop driving around in range rovers as thats obviously the cause.:rolleyes:

I'm moving to London next year, red Ken can **** off with his 25pound charge on "gas guzzlers", the tosser. Its called petrol and charging the odd porsche or jeep owner 25 pounds to drive in central London is not going to save the planet.

unkel

astraboy wrote: »

As regards oil supplies, the issue is not that there is not enough of the black stuff left, it is that drill operations, exploration companies and refineries are operating at capacity. This is limiting the market supply, and given the high demand, prices have gone up. It will take a few years before the required engineers and staff have been trained, the equipment is built, and wells in inhospitable areas are sunk

I hope you're not in complete denial. The black stuff is running out, you know!

But granted, way slower than they all keep telling us. Didn't the Club of Rome predict in the 70s that we'd have none left by now? Do we not have more left now than they reckoned we had left back then?

astraboy

I'm aware that its a finite resource, but we're not down to the last few barrels just yet, theres plenty left in the ground, the issue is getting it out.

stratos

I'm not too worried about oil availability back on th 2nd of February 1972 we were told there was only 3 barrels left, they have being saying the same thing ever since.:D

CyberGhost

I agree with the OP, it's just amazing what people will eat if you feed them right.

CO2?....... give me a break, if they really care why don't they advertise some some suggestions or tips, I was stuck in a huge jam today and no one, NO ONE, turned their engines off, if they really want to save the planet advise people to conserve, if everybody would just shut their cars off in the cars, it'd make a big difference, but they rather increase the price and rob people...

In UK they are bringing in a new tax law to force people to buy newer cars.

I'm already seriously considering moving to a bicycle.

congo_90

poxy polititions. all false promises. CO2 isn't the big thing anymore as others have said. Instead of slating motorists the government should start investing in alternate energies and offer incentives for people to convert to it. enough of this nonsense of blaming us everyday joes. do something about it and the people will follow.
as for speed limits being lowered, What a loada BO**ocks!!! just another way to catch what will be speeding motorists. The speeds are low enough as is! 100km/h on some parts of M50.
I want to rant more but not bothered

stratos

Please rant more we don't rant enough, a lot of people are buying into this green tax crap, How in gods name did the envoirement get turned into tax. Carbon trading will be the next big joke.

ART6

stratos wrote: »

Please rant more we don't rant enough, a lot of people are buying into this green tax crap, How in gods name did the envoirement get turned into tax. Carbon trading will be the next big joke.

The environment got turned into tax because almost all problems identified or invented by politicians almost always have a tax solution for some odd reason.

E92

astraboy wrote: »

I'm moving to London next year, red Ken can **** off with his 25pound charge on "gas guzzlers", the tosser. Its called petrol and charging the odd porsche or jeep owner 25 pounds to drive in central London is not going to save the planet.

The Labour party over there has taken quite a battering in the council elections, hopefully Londoners also saw sense and will boot out Red Ken(we won't know for sure till later on this evening). The Tory party wants 80 mph speed limits instead of 70 on the Motorway, a reduction in speed camers(well they actually brought speed cameras into Britain but let's ignore that one shall we:D?) and of course they're not going to bother with the £25 "congestion charge" either.

That's my kind of political party!

Btw King's College in London released a report(which TfL surprise surprise didn't) about a month ago which shows that the £25 C-charge will increase emissions(TfL actually got them to do the research and only quoted selective bits of it as justification of the £25 congestion charge).

Full story here.

peasant wrote: »

Regardless of whether or not CO2 is a problem or if global warming exists or not ...motorists will always be made pay. They have been for decades and it will only get worse.

Also, all environmental issues aside, it is ludicrous to burn up such a valuable and very finite resource as oil just for fun in our cars. As the motor industry (coupled with the oil industry) has no interest in changing that, maybe it IS necessary for governements to step in and force the issue towards alternative fuels and alternative modes of transport.

Unfortunately, you're right, and btw congrats on becoming a full mod!

I'm afraid it's the politicians most of all that are not interested in reducing our dependence on crude oil.

Just look at the VRT situation with flexi fuel cars. It was a 50% rebate, now it's a €2,500 rebate. Big mistake. Now we're all going to be driving diesels which run on...crude oil.

The German Government cut the rebate on bio ethanol because too many Germans started to use it. That's hardly going to encourage people to cut down on crude oil?

Think of all the money they make on petrol and diesel on alleged environmental gounds. There's no way they're going to let us off that nicely when cleaner technologies set it. I'd bet any money that once lower CO2 cars start to take off as they will in July when we all starrt buying diesels that they will put up the price of diesel and introduce a tax on it because of the detrimental affect it has on our air quality and health(they should have done it from the start). Or else they'll up the VRT rates(that definately WILL happen). Now if they are as concerned about the planet as they say they are they'd introduce even lower VRT bands for all the cars coming in the not too distant future that manage under 100 g/km for CO2. The next Fiesta will be able to do it. The Polo Bluemotion can, PSA have a 1.0 3 pot petrol coming that can do it as well. Then we have Fiat's 2 cylinder Panda that manages just 70 g/km for CO2.

Nobody more than me wants to see us move away from crude oil and start off on the journey of bio ethanol motoring. As oil is finite, we can't keep running cars on oil indefinately. If Brazil has been able to do it for what 30 years why can't we? Hydrogen is of course the fuel of the future anyway.

Motorists pay obscene amounts of tax on the grounds of something that quite simply is NOT a problem, and has actually stalled for the past 2 years.

Max_Damage

Well, for a start, I'm not really into this whole CO2-causing-global-warming thing at all, but I think the most ridiculous thing the governments are doing is forcing people to buy new so-called 'greener' cars, while scraping old ones. I'm a firm believer in using an item (especially a car) until it dies, and even then, I'll try and fix it to keep it going. Now I would think that is far greener keeping a old car on the road than buying a hybrid (or any car for that mater) that creates a considerable amount of emissions in the manufacturing process. Also, it will take alot of work to safely dispose of all the batteries that are in hybrid cars when the times comes to scrap them.

Steve

E92 wrote: »

Nobody more than me wants to see us move away from crude oil and start off on the journey of bio ethanol motoring. As oil is finite, we can't keep running cars on oil indefinately. If Brazil has been able to do it for what 30 years why can't we? Hydrogen is of course the fuel of the future anyway.

I agree with that. It's the only long term viable way forward.

Sadly, by the time it arrives, they will have found some reason to tax us for it.
They'll call it a 'green' tax because plant life is dying out because of a lack of CO2 or something.

E92

stevec wrote: »

I agree with that. It's the only long term viable way forward.

Sadly, by the time it arrives, they will have found some reason to tax us for it.
They'll call it a 'green' tax because plant life is dying out because of a lack of CO2 or something.

Yep, you've provided the perfect "excuse" for them.

The only good thing for us car enthusiasts is that London it appears WON'T be having the £25 C-charge after all, because Red Ken is likely to lose his job(with a bit of luck) to Boris Johnson:)!

conneem-TT

It seems that at the moment the main focus is on cars, because its an easy target (look at air travel, travel x km in a plane and it is the approximately equivalent to traveling the same distance in an average car)

But I do agree that any CO2 green tax related to cars should be on the fuel rather thatn the car to punish the heavy polluters, and any and all revenue gathered from this and any eco friendly tax should go towards new sustainable renewable energy sources to secure our energy needs for the future.

But with our crap public transport system and bad sprawling planning over the last few decades we are in a bad state and there is no choice for some other than the car.

Take for example the construction of the new M3, they could have planned for a new rail line along it's route and at least left provisions for one (as rail travel is the most eficent way of motorised travel), anyway they did purchase 250m each side of the route anyway.

conneem-TT

E92 wrote: »

Yep, you've provided the perfect "excuse" for them.

The only good thing for us car enthusiasts is that London it appears WON'T be having the £25 C-charge after all, because Red Ken is likely to lose his job(with a bit of luck) to Boris Johnson:)!

Boris is ahead with 30% of the counts completed

blastman

I'm not sure that bio-fuels are necessarily the answer, I think hydrogen and fuel cells are a better option long-term, but I've agreed with pretty much everything else in this thread.

Steve

E92 wrote: »

The only good thing for us car enthusiasts is that London it appears WON'T be having the £25 C-charge after all, because Red Ken is likely to lose his job(with a bit of luck) to Boris Johnson:)!

conneem-TT wrote: »

Boris is ahead with 30% of the counts completed

Hopefully Gormless & co will take note and realise that this sort of crap is going to lose them votes.

cancan

Until there is a motorist organization and protests, expect more of the same.
The motorist is a soft target, cos they happily pay the tax and never say boo.

E92

Johnson seems to have won it:D! Fantastic news. I hope those who believe in symbolic gestures to be seen to be doing something about the planet will sit up and take notice. That comment is directed at no-one in particular:D!

The end of the £25 congestion charge at the very least and the end of perhaps my most hated politician!

Unlike us the Brits actually understand the concept of removing incompetent people. In Ireland we give them a general absolution every 5 years and then bitch and moan about them in the intervening period.

Timmaay

conneem-TT wrote: »

It seems that at the moment the main focus is on cars, because its an easy target (look at air travel, travel x km in a plane and it is the approximately equivalent to traveling the same distance in an average car)

But I do agree that any CO2 green tax related to cars should be on the fuel rather thatn the car to punish the heavy polluters, and any and all revenue gathered from this and any eco friendly tax should go towards new sustainable renewable energy sources to secure our energy needs for the future.

But with our crap public transport system and bad sprawling planning over the last few decades we are in a bad state and there is no choice for some other than the car.

I agree with you there fully. Whatever you view on the whole global warming thing (I believe it, The evidence has been overwhelming in the last few years), Gormless and the greens have f*cked up and are just choosing the easy target of drivers. The net reduction in emissions from this whole co2 based motor tax/vrt is going to be miniscule in comparsion to say getting rid off all our old peatburning powerstations or providing a proper public transport system that allows people who commute 3/4hrs total a day to leave the car at home. But no, gormless and the greens are complete pushovers when it came to join FF in government, FF have total them to go off and "save the environment" from us dirty motorists, instead of tacking the big monopoly of the ESB, who make it very difficult for people to build private windturbines etc to connect it up to the grid, and the big issue of public transport.

junkyard

Any time you see politicians getting on the bandwagon you can be sure the bottom line is more taxes. I can't believe how gullible the public is to swallow all this global warming crap but then again FF did win the last election! From what I've read lately, a lot of well respected scientists are back tracking their views on global warming as it's coming to light a lot of figures which were given as being accurate have been tweaked in favour of global warming.

Max_Damage

Slightly off-topic, but meh:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5549114236765477681&q=Global+Warming+Swindle&ei=wZAbSO7ON6eijQLYtcjFAQ

ART6

I want a nuclear powered car:D

Victor

E92 wrote: »

As a German friend of mine said about Germany and speed limits on the Autobahn, "those who want speed limits can't afford fast cars and they want everyone else brought down to their level and be forced to buy slow cars".

If one takes members of Dublin Cycling Campaign (I'm a member) as representative of those who want lower speed limits, fewer cars in cities, etc., many of them own cars. They choose to cycle in the city.

E92, I've wondered this for a long time, which part of the motor industry do you work in?

Del2005

Timmaay wrote: »

I agree with you there fully. Whatever you view on the whole global warming thing (I believe it, The evidence has been overwhelming in the last few years), Gormless and the greens have f*cked up and are just choosing the easy target of drivers. The net reduction in emissions from this whole co2 based motor tax/vrt is going to be miniscule in comparsion to say getting rid off all our old peatburning powerstations or providing a proper public transport system that allows people who commute 3/4hrs total a day to leave the car at home. But no, gormless and the greens are complete pushovers when it came to join FF in government, FF have total them to go off and "save the environment" from us dirty motorists, instead of tacking the big monopoly of the ESB, who make it very difficult for people to build private windturbines etc to connect it up to the grid, and the big issue of public transport.

They did get rid of our old peat power stations, but they built new ones to keep Bord Na Móna going*. They are digging up our peat bogs, releasing loads of CO2, and burning it for power, more CO2 released. Also isn't Money point responsible for a huge % of our CO2 emissons.

Motor transport is responsible for a low % of overal CO2 emissons, why don't they tax/ban cows as they produce hugh amounts of Methane and that 4 times worst the CO2 as a green house gas.**

* They will use energy security as an excuse, but they are destroying our bogs.


**Farmers have a powerfull lobby group

Del2005

Victor wrote: »

If one takes members of Dublin Cycling Campaign (I'm a member) as representative of those who want lower speed limits, fewer cars in cities, etc., many of them own cars. They choose to cycle in the city.

That's OK and I agree with removing cars from our cities, but first they need to provide reliable alternatives. The public transport in Dublin at rush hour is running at full capacity now. What do you think would happen if on Tuesday all the car drivers from outside the city decided to use public transport?

Untill there is cheap, reliable public transport that has big park and ride hubs on all the routes into Dublin that will be difficult to do. The Goverment made a mess of this country by allowing builders to keep going out and low density instead of up and high density, we are now reaping the rewards of this.

When did this become the green issues fourm?:D:D

Victor

Del2005 wrote: »

That's OK and I agree with removing cars from our cities, but first they need to provide reliable alternatives. The public transport in Dublin at rush hour is running at full capacity now. What do you think would happen if on Tuesday all the car drivers from outside the city decided to use public transport?

Buses would run much faster, carrying twice what they normally carrry.

Del2005

Victor wrote: »

Buses would run much faster, carrying twice what they normally carrry.

That's called over loading a vehicle and the Gardai will do them:D

They may run faster but we still have a limited amount of buses. They can only do so many runs and if they are all full when they start no one else can get on.

Don't forget that at the moment the buses are run for the company not the public. No orbital routes etc.

Look at the Luas, a great idea works well espically the green line. But it is getting dangerously over crowded now and they are building loads of new apartments near it. How are all these people supposed to benfit from living beside a Luas line, for which they have to pay a premium, if it is already running at full capacity and they can't increase the frequency any more.

astraboy

Victor wrote: »

Buses would run much faster, carrying twice what they normally carrry.

SUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRREEEEEEEE they would.:rolleyes: There would be a bus drivers strike within 2 hours over 'strenuous routes' or some ****. In your world the motorist is the enemy as I can clearly see. Yes, you say you drive but driving for you is a chore, you most likely drive a toyota corolla and have no interest in cars. Cyclists in your opinion are better then all the dirty planet destroying motorists and Gods gift to the city streets. Fact remains lowering speed limits is bull****, most of our national secondary roads and motorways could do with an increased limit.

I'm all for reducing traffic in cities though. It won't happen as long as people have no alternative to get into the city besides a car though. Cheap, reliable, safe and clean public transport is what is needed. When that is no place I think you'll find people much rather sitting on the bus for half an hour in the morning or evening then driving themselves. Thats years off however, busses are a rare sight on many of the Cork routes. There is supposed to be one going past my house every 15 minutes. Ya right!:mad:

E92

I would be all for improved public transport on the grounds that it does not affect improvements to our roads and other car related improvements.

By that I mean I don't want our long overdue Motorways being shelved for the sake of public transport. I want to see both happen(of course money is finite, so I mean within reason).

The Western Rail Corridor is something that is completely unnecessary for example. They should spend that money on improving the road network in the Wesht as from what I'm told most of their roads are akin to the third world.

In Cork buses regularly don't run and when they do it's not always easy to get a seat on one. And that's in the day, don't bother trying to get a bus in peak traffic. BÉ locally have no interest in providing decent public transport at all. They're a joke of a company if ever there was one.

I'd gladly not drive into Cork city centre if I had better public transport. I'm wasting enormous amounts of fuel and driving into town is just about the worst thing I can do for my car and it's components. Most wear and tear on cars is from pulling off and stopping, and you are always doing that in town. Driving in traffic is fustrating at the best of times.

There needs to be more frequent buses, you need to know that if a bus turns up that you will be able to get on and preferably get a seat, but what there needs to be most of all is reliable and punctual public transport. I completely accept that buses get stuck in traffic but isn't that why there are timetables? You plan around these things based on what happens on your typical day. BÉ are not a private company. They are there for the benefit of the public, not themselves. There needs to be double decker buses which can carry more people and therefore cut down on our dependence on cars.

Most people see cars as a device for moving people from A to B. They're hardly the type of people who use cars by choice going on roads like the jam packed South Link or around any of our cities for the sake of it. They do it because it's necessary.

Of course some people can't understand that some of us like cars and have a vendetta against us car enthusiasts and want to force us to give up something we love.

astraboy

E92, well said again. Whenever I see the no5 on college road in the morning or evening it is bordering on dangerously overpacked. There has not been an increase in the number of busses in cork in years. FF promised new ones during the election, and they were delivered, but to replace the old outdated ones! So no actual increase in available public transport. Good luck trying to get a bus on time, or get a seat on a Cork bus at any busy time.

The routes to the country are nearly as bad, they do run a regular service but the price is ridiculous! Why can I get to Dublin on a comfy air-coach for 7 euro, but it costs 15 to get from Cork to Skibbereen, a journey of just over 1 hour? I'll stick with my car thanks.

E92

Improving bus services(which also requires improved road networks) is just about the cheapest way to improve public transport but if we invest in additional buses we'll be told by the do-gooders that "we need to address the roads vs public transport funding "imbalance"":rolleyes:!

blastman

E92 wrote: »

There needs to be more frequent buses, you need to know that if a bus turns up that you will be able to get on and preferably get a seat, but what there needs to be most of all is reliable and punctual public transport. I completely accept that buses get stuck in traffic but isn't that why there are timetables?

And bus lanes. You know, those large, mainly empty, stretches of tarmac you see all around the place.

astraboy

blastman wrote: »

And bus lanes. You know, those large, mainly empty, stretches of tarmac you see all around the place.

Bus lanes in Cork are fairly pointless considering how irregular the bus service is. I would have no issue with them generally if I was constantly seeing busses in them.

who_ru

peasant wrote: »

Regardless of whether or not CO2 is a problem or if global warming exists or not ...motorists will always be made pay. They have been for decades and it will only get worse.

Also, all environmental issues aside, it is ludicrous to burn up such a valuable and very finite resource as oil just for fun in our cars. As the motor industry (coupled with the oil industry) has no interest in changing that, maybe it IS necessary for governements to step in and force the issue towards alternative fuels and alternative modes of transport.

sense talking