Some advice regarding my future..

MizzLolly

Hey guys,

I'm currently doing an arts degree in UCD. One year left to go. I would really like to teach but I don't have a clue about doing a Hdip or the requirements that are needed.

I also have a bigger problem and I feel it is too late to fix it. I would love to be an English teacher - no doubt about that. It's just that my other subject that I am currently majoring in is Art History. I wonder if this will cause some bother for me as I know most schools won't employ a teacher to teach Art History with another subject (in my case English). Most Art teachers take care of the Art History part of the course aswell.

Have I completely shot myself in the foot?

Sorry if this post seems stupid, I'm just really lost at the moment regarding my future. I would also love to be a primary school teacher, I had some experience before and while it was hard it was probably one of the best experiences I ever had. (even with the difficult students!) I just loved it. I probably would be a better primary school teacher as I question my abilities when it comes to controlling a class full of 17/18 year olds. I have been told that it is much harder to get into primary teaching through an Arts degree than it is for secondary teaching. I know I seem very clueless here but I just want to teach. I bet it's the most rewarding job you could have.

rainbowtrout

I think you are probably right about Art History, I've never heard of a school that teaches it separately to Art. To be honest I doubt as a degree subject it would be recognised as a subject for teaching purposes. I'm open to correction here though. Realistically English would be your only option at second level.

You did say that you would prefer primary school teaching. You could apply to the colleges that offer an 18 month post grad course in primary school teaching for graduates of other courses (eg Mary I), or you could apply for the Hibernia course, which is online/distance course. It is a recognised primary school teaching qualification. Also 18 months in duration. You will need to have an Honour in Irish in the Leaving Cert though as one of the requirements.

MizzLolly

So am I basically screwed for secondary teaching??


I did get an honour in Irish for the leaving but that was two years ago. I can't see that being enough. Is it??

rainbowtrout

well if you have an honour in Irish you would be eligible for primary school teaching, as far as i know part of the interview is in Irish.

As for secondary you would probably be limited to English which is restrictive enough when going for a job.

snickerpuss

I know someone who did Art History and English and is training to be a secondary teacher. She is teaching English and CSPE. So you're not totally screwed, you need two subjects anyway so you have to just pick another one rather than art history.

(I also do art history, nice choice! )

funktastic

Teaching council may look for an area such as Politics or Sociology in your final year of your degree to teach CSPE (in order to register with teaching council).

You can take CSPE on in your HDip as a subject but there is no guarantee that Teaching council will recognise it if you don't have it in your final degree. More than likely they won't.

TerrorFirmer

actually this seems like a good place to ask - I'm currently doing English and History, but I've no idea how the HDip works - in the sense of what it involves, what you do, etc - and what the criteria for qualifying are. Obviously, I want to be a teacher. I've heard a lot of people saying it's only 2nd year in college that counts - I'm assuming, and somewhat hoping, that's only applicable to people who go straight into the H-Dip as 3rd year results wouldn't be out? As in, surely if you wait a year or two before applying, they'd give preference to your final year results over 2nd year?

Thanks in advance.

Toto Wolfcastle

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

actually this seems like a good place to ask - I'm currently doing English and History, but I've no idea how the HDip works - in the sense of what it involves, what you do, etc - and what the criteria for qualifying are. Obviously, I want to be a teacher. I've heard a lot of people saying it's only 2nd year in college that counts - I'm assuming, and somewhat hoping, that's only applicable to people who go straight into the H-Dip as 3rd year results wouldn't be out? As in, surely if you wait a year or two before applying, they'd give preference to your final year results over 2nd year?

Thanks in advance.

I has this conversation with my sister last night. A few of her friends who want to be teachers are convinced that only 2nd year results count. I don't know why! Anyway, 3rd year results count once they have been released, like if you apply after 3rd year. I haven't got time to get into the details now but as you are in Oranmore, and I'm just finishing the Dip (PGDE) in NUIG PM me if you want any details.

MizzLolly

snickerpuss wrote: »

I know someone who did Art History and English and is training to be a secondary teacher. She is teaching English and CSPE. So you're not totally screwed, you need two subjects anyway so you have to just pick another one rather than art history.

(I also do art history, nice choice! )

Hey, thanks, it's nice to see some positivity regarding this. I seemed to be hitting a brick wall up until now. I do enjoy Art History and I would happily teach it but I've only ever heard of two schools that have seperate Practical Art and Art History teachers. I'm really confused. Do you have any idea how your friend went about doing CSPE? Did she do it as an elective in third year or something?? I haven't a clue, sorry.

funktastic wrote: »

Teaching council may look for an area such as Politics or Sociology in your final year of your degree to teach CSPE (in order to register with teaching council).

You can take CSPE on in your HDip as a subject but there is no guarantee that Teaching council will recognise it if you don't have it in your final degree. More than likely they won't.

But I am in my second year of my degree now, how can I throw Sociology or Politics into it at the last minute?! Sorry, I'm not following!

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

actually this seems like a good place to ask - I'm currently doing English and History, but I've no idea how the HDip works - in the sense of what it involves, what you do, etc - and what the criteria for qualifying are. Obviously, I want to be a teacher. I've heard a lot of people saying it's only 2nd year in college that counts - I'm assuming, and somewhat hoping, that's only applicable to people who go straight into the H-Dip as 3rd year results wouldn't be out? As in, surely if you wait a year or two before applying, they'd give preference to your final year results over 2nd year?

Thanks in advance.

+1. That's exactly what I was wondering too?!

Toto Wolfcastle

MizzLolly wrote: »

But I am in my second year of my degree now, how can I throw Sociology or Politics into it at the last minute?! Sorry, I'm not following!

You can't. That's the point. You could try to take CSPE as your second subject for the Dip but the Teaching Council might not (and more than likely wont) accept it as you don't have in in your degree.

Having said that, a representative from the Teaching Council told us that as far as they are concerned, it is up to the individual principals whether they accept it or not. Of course as the Teaching Council starts to get its act together this may change and where will that leave you?

MizzLolly

janeybabe wrote: »

You can't. That's the point. You could try to take CSPE as your second subject for the Dip but the Teaching Council might not (and more than likely wont) accept it as you don't have in in your degree.

Having said that, a representative from the Teaching Council told us that as far as they are concerned, it is up to the individual principals whether they accept it or not. Of course as the Teaching Council starts to get its act together this may change and where will that leave you?

I haven't a clue....

That's why I posted!

Toto Wolfcastle

MizzLolly wrote: »

I haven't a clue....

That's why I posted!

What I'm saying is it would leave you with just one subject to teach.

Rosita

Just to explain the logic to people who are wondering why some say "only second year results count" for the PGDE.

Let's say you are in second year now (starting third and final year in September '08 all going well) and intend to apply for the PGDE (h.dip) in Education for the first possible session after your finals which would be the PDGE starting in September 09 (your BA finals being May '09).

The application date for the PGDE will be in December '08 (yes, there are later application dates up to February) and you will have to fill in your latest results which obviously will be your second year results. You simply will not have your final year results available to you when you are applying for the simple reason that your finals will still be 5 months away.

In that sense second year results are critical if you intend to go from a BA to the diploma without interruption. It seems bizarre that while normally final results are paramount, in the case of this diploma they are more often than not judging people on results which are not finals.

Presumably it is a time issue as students have to have a chance to arrange schools for teaching practice and this obviously will be a tricky thing to do during the summer. That is the only reason I can think of for it as other than that it seems to be just a number-crunching exercise with results fed into some system or other as far as I can see.

As for the criteria for applying etc. - you must - to use the jargon - have an "eligible degree". This means you must have a degree (or be in the process of acquiring) a degree which enables you to teach (at least) one subject which is on the second-level curriculum which in effect means having studied (or in the process of studying) to degree level one of those subjects.

How are marks assessed? Well, the easist example is a BA degree; the average percentage mark you achieved in the year you are using - be it second year or your final year if a degree has been completed - is taken as your mark. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as BA degree mark even though everyone talks about it. You get seperate marks for each subject, but for this they come up with an average of the two subjects. You would need 62%-63% to be in the ballpark. This would have got you into some of the courses this year but not last year so it varies.

snickerpuss

She just picked CSPE, she never did sociology or politics or anything else. I'm sure also that she would have made sure she'd be allowed to teach it before spending a year doing it in a H.DIP.

They have all sorts of weird regulations that don't seem to be enforced. I did Irish and Art History and looked into the H.Dip. According to the subject guide I have to have lived in a Gaeltacht for 3 months before being allowed to do Irish. Talking to people who've done the H.Dip this certainly wasn't enforced! Also it's bloody ridiculous but that's for another day!

(Mizz Lolly - I loved art history too much and now i'm whiling away my time doing an MA!)

MathsManiac

Several separate issues appear to be getting mixed up and leading to the OP's confusion. I hope the following clarifies:

- You must have studied, to final-year degree standard, at least ONE subject on the second-level curriculum in order to gain registration with the teaching council. You'r ok on this front, if, as I think you implied, you have English in the final year of your degree

- During the HDip, you are normally expected to study teaching methods in TWO subjects. People USUALLY have two suitable subjects from their primary degree but not always. People therefore sometimes take a methods class in a subject that they only did in the first year of their degree, or even a subject that they never did during their degree. You should discuss the options here with the university. They may or may not require you to get teaching practice in both of your methods subjects. (If they do, then the school that you get your teaching practice hours in will have to be prepared to give you classes in a subject that you didn't study.)

- Once you're qualified and registered as a teacher of English, the range of jobs that you are eligible to apply for is more limited than someone who has two subjects.

- Once you actually have a job, then, depending on what kind of school you're in, it's quite possible that you could end up teaching subjects other than those you were appointed for and/or are qualified to teach.

gaeilgegrinds

Snickerpuss, out of interest where did you hear about that rule about 3 months living in the Gaeltacht...very interested to know!

Toto Wolfcastle

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Snickerpuss, out of interest where did you hear about that rule about 3 months living in the Gaeltacht...very interested to know!

I read about that rule too. It's on the PAC website.

http://www.pac.ie/hdip/downloads/GeneralandSpecialRequirements_2008.pdf

I only heard about it when someone PM'd me on here!

Rosita

The requirement for "Residential experience of at least three months in an area designated as a Gaeltacht area" is no big deal and is implicit in any application which involves teaching Irish as a main subject.

The first condition mentioned for teaching Irish at second-level is "the study of Irish as a major subject in the degree extending over at least three years and of the order of 30% at a minimum of that period."

If you have the latter then you should also have the forner. University students spend significant time in the Gaeltacht in each academic year (or at least should anyway) so this residential period would be assumed to have been met during the studying for an Irish degree as such periods in the Gaeltacht is also a requirement to graduate in Irish at university. The teaching council would accept Irish to degree level from the different universities as acceptable for teaching Irish. And the universities without exception would have Gaeltacht attendance as an integral part of their Irish degree courses. There is nothing new in this I reckon.

snickerpuss

As long as it's not enforced it shouldn't be a big deal. I have been fluent in Irish since I was knee high, went to a Gaelscoil, did a degree in it, but I've only spent barely 2 weeks in the Gaeltacht. That's how UCD do it.
I don't think sitting around Connemara for 3 months will improve my Irish, nor do I think the only valid place to learn Irish is the Gaeltacht. My Dublin Irish should be sufficent.