live staking advice..

[nicK]

alright,
i'll be getting involved in a good amount of live action throughout the summer and have a friend who has fallen on unfortunate circumstances whereby he's had his whole bankroll frozen on the prima network due to the whole busto fiasco..

so this guy can beat .25/.50nl online easily, has a good understanding of the game and is a solid grinder when he has his roll together..
i'm considering staking him for some 5/10nl live games at the commerce in la as i know he can beat it, i know he'll put the hours in and i want to see him back in the game as he's a good friend and would like for him to build a bit of a roll.. however i've never staked anyone properly before and don't have a clue how it works..

i'd like to get some advice on what sort of outlay/reward i should be looking at and what terms we should look to put down before exchanging any $$..

bohsman

Staking him online where you can get a % of his rakeback and profits and see exactly how hes playing if he goes on a bad run makes much more sense.

[nicK]

i appreciate your reply and yeah, that obviously makes more senese especially for a grinder like myself, but he's already got backing for his online game and can't withdraw for at least 3months..

we will still be grinding away online anyway but i can forsee us spending a lot of time at the live tables mainly for a break from the online games and to mix it up a bit.. so this thread is going to hopefully be about seeking advice for steaking in a live game..

i'd love to hear opinions from those of you who've perhaps done it before or can warn me of the pitfalls that might come about or what conditions we can put in place to make this work..

tipp86

How soft id $5-10 in the commerce il be in La for a few days in June

bohsman

Ive gotten staked in all sorts of live and online games over the last few years, Id say the easiest till he gets some sort of a roll would be stake him for 1k or 2k or whatever on a session to session basis, he keeps 50% of the profits, any less than 50% most peoples game will be affected. Once he can afford to put up a few grand go 50 50 and split the profits on a weekly basis till one of you wants out of the deal.

HoLLLLLaments

The % depends on his skill level. I wouldnt stake anybody with less than a 55% cut unless they were really really profitable. It is a freeroll for them afterall. In regards to staking for mtts alot of stakes get their horses to provide makeup. Because of the high variance nature of the game it might take some time for the horse to win anything so when he does he must cover the losses up until that point. So he gos 10 $50 mtts without a cash then wins one for 2k. He has to to pay the staker his % say 55% and then provide make up on then 10 previous mtts so hed send the 55% 1100 and then the 500 in makeup. If its a possible long term stake, even tho its cash, id say getting him to provide make up might be a good idea. So if he finished down money over this staking period but you felt he was still a good horse he would have to cover the losses if you decided to stake him again.

For this stake you probably need to look at his own skills/problems and work out conditions of the stake around that. If he tilts easy set a stop loss, if he struggles to play long sessions set a hour per day rule. Just talk to him and try and find set conditions that will provide the most profitable staking arrangement possible.

edit: re the amount you should stake bi wise really depends on how deep those games play etc. Id find out a bit about the games and work something out using that info

semibluff

bohsman wrote: »

stake him for 1k or 2k or whatever on a session to session basis, he keeps 50% of the profits, any less than 50% most peoples game will be affected. Once he can afford to put up a few grand go 50 50 and split the profits on a weekly basis till one of you wants out of the deal.

this doesnt look like a good deal for nick at all.

In the first instance he is staking him, and risking the whole loss - for return of 50%

In the second instance he stakes 50% and gets 50% profit. In such the first makes less sense to nick, and the second makes less sense to the friend

A staking process would be allow him 2 or 3 buy ins a day at a level, with a possible 50-50 cut. But if he was to lose 4 buy ins, and wins the 5th one (maybe on the second day) his profits shouldnt be split until your losses have been recuperated. Thats what id do, if i was convinced he could beat the levels you's are playing

cardshark202

Don't forget they are good friends so they are not looking to squeeze every ounce out of each other.

Marq

unlike some people.

smoothcall

Staking someone who plays 25c 50c into 5 10, my advice would be gl

cardshark202

smoothcall wrote: »

Staking someone who plays 25c 50c into 5 10, my advice would be gl

Its live 5/10 so they would prob be very big winners

smoothcall

Ive heard those games are sick good alright, hopefully visit them in the summer.

But, he might be technically better but when it comes to putting 1k in the pot when hes used to 50$ it changes imo. If i was steaking a friend to be sound and try make some money . If he beat 25 50cent id be putting him in 12.

cardshark202

It all depends on his state of mind. If he can handle it mentally, then theres no problem

smoothcall

ye prob , id prefer putting someone who beats 50$ tourneys online into a 500$ live tourney tho.

Id be wanting more than 50% too.

hotspur

Nobody who plays as low as .25/.50c online has an edge at $5/$10 in the Commerce imo. And if he's a nitty grinder then he's in for a very boring time because players are all in every hand in that game as it has a 40bb max buy in. The 10/20 is worse, that's a max 30bb buy in. Weird.

krux

hotspur wrote: »

Nobody who plays as low as .25/.50c online has an edge at $5/$10 in the Commerce imo. And if he's a nitty grinder then he's in for a very boring time because players are all in every hand in that game as it has a 40bb max buy in. The 10/20 is worse, that's a max 30bb buy in. Weird.

Wow really? why would anyone decent,seek to play this game?

[nicK]

hotspur wrote: »

Nobody who plays as low as .25/.50c online has an edge at $5/$10 in the Commerce imo. And if he's a nitty grinder then he's in for a very boring time because players are all in every hand in that game as it has a 40bb max buy in. The 10/20 is worse, that's a max 30bb buy in. Weird.

the 10/20 game is uncapped with a MIN buyin of $600..
the 5/10 game is a $400 buyin yeah with unlimited $600 rebuys but after 2 or 3hrs of a game opening up they play pretty deep with great action..

anyway, none of that is really a concern.. i've clocked up around 200hrs in those games and know how they play so not really looking for advice on that aspect.. i wouldn't be considering this if i didn't think the guy could beat these games regardless of his online nitty status..

HoLLLLLaments wrote:

For this stake you probably need to look at his own skills/problems and work out conditions of the stake around that. If he tilts easy set a stop loss, if he struggles to play long sessions set a hour per day rule. Just talk to him and try and find set conditions that will provide the most profitable staking arrangement possible.

yeah, sounds like solid advice, a conversation can sort of a lot of that stuff but the % is something i thought some of you guys may of had experience with..

a 50/50 share doesn't excite me too much as my outlay could be very volotile with the high varience of these games and this whole thing being pretty experimental n' all, so i was hoping for a higher risk/reward factor seeing as it is pretty much a freeroll for the horse, but then again don't want to require such a % that it begins to affect his play..

Daithio

You should definitely have some sort of clawback clause as Holllla outlined. It doesn't have to be for 100% of what he previously lost, but it shouldn't be a complete freeroll for him either. No matter how good friends you are, it's hard to play your top game if it's not going to hurt at all if you lose. Also, you say he has money coming to him in 3 months, so it's not like he's life busto, just temporarily.

Conbro

Staking someone who plays 25c 50c into 5 10, my advice would be gl

A lot of advice has been given on this forum of late suggesting that anybody that can beat micro levels online will walk through 5/10+ live. While the standard of your average online player is definetely higher than that of your average live one, the difference isnt as great as some seem to imagine. If you cant make it higher than .25/50 on line then you probably not much of a player, certainly not good enough to beat live 5/10

RoundTower

don't give him a session by session freeroll. It's pretty hard for you to win if you get 50% of his winnings or all his losses each session.

If he agrees to play at least a dozen sessions or so with 100% makeup, and you're confident he can beat the game comfortably, then 50-50 is much more reasonable.

DeadParrot

Why not stake him $xx and let him jump in where he wants, ie. smaller games?

cardshark202

DeadParrot wrote: »

Why not stake him $xx and let him jump in where he wants, ie. smaller games?

What if he decides to sit in the biggest possible game? This is a bad idea. You need set terms which you both agree on