Gaeilge

gaeilgegrinds

What do your, 'New/Irish, Non-National, whatever term your school uses' students do when yur other students do Gaeilge? Out of interest...

spurious

Some of them do Irish, some do extra English, some study in the library. We have some Irish students that do not do Irish and at least one of them does Art while the rest of his class have Irish. Not sure what the others do.

gaeilgegrinds

Is it the Irish teachers' responsibility to see they are doing whatever is expected of them? We have huge issues at the moment chasing them up! All out Irish students who have exemptions study in the class so that's what they are all expected to do.

spurious

Depending on their needs we have assigned them different things to do. It's costly in terms of personnel, but for kids who are not doing Irish, they may as well get help in English or do a different subject instead.

rainbowtrout

Some of ours have extra English/Maths along with some Irish students who have an Irish exemption. A few do Irish that were here long enough, I think a few might sit at the back of the Irish class and do homework if they don't need extra English (only one or two of them). Mainly extra English, either on a one to one capacity, or in twos and threes. It depends on resources available from year to year. We don't have too many non-national students, only one or two in each year at most.

TheDriver

Is it primary or secondary? In sec, they get their extra english entitlements at that time

gaeilgegrinds

What about when that extra English entitlement has been used up? As in, after the two years? Secondary by the way. Serious issue for me at the moment!

Toto Wolfcastle

In my school those who are exempt and who don't need extra help with English or otherwise (both Irish and non-Irish) sit in class and study. I don't know how they do it but they don't have a choice, at Junior level anyway. Some go to support/English classes, others do Irish. (Irish sounds fantastic in a Lithuanian accent!)

Why is it an issue if you don't mind me asking?

gaeilgegrinds

It's an issue because the 'foreign (I don't know what to call these students, they've been called different words in each school I'm in)' students who don't do Irish (some do) go walk about & I end up having to search for them & bring them back. And when I do bring them back their behaviour is appalling and I've wasted half my class looking for them while someone supervises my class. The principal sees this as my issue. Students are only entitled to extra English classes as foreign students for two academic years, the students that get remedial English (we also call this extra English but am calling it that here to differentiate) continue to get the extra help so I'm ok with them. It just seems an awful lot of time wasting each day for me & I'm getting to the end of my tether with them. And yes, it is MY problem so no passing the book here unfortunately. Any ideas?

Toto Wolfcastle

Sounds like a really hard situation to deal with. I've had few problems with those who don't do Irish in my classes, but then I only have 1st and 2nd years as I'm doing my Dip.

Do they get up voluntarily and just walk out without asking? If this is the case and it is an ongoing issue then I would argue that it's perhaps time to take it to the class tutor/year head/vice-principal/principal. It's an ongoing discipline issue that is becoming increasingly disruptive and is unfair to those who actually want to learn.

If you're giving them permission to leave (and I doubt you are but I thought I should mention it anyway!) then it's as simple as saying no.

Of course, initially it is your problem, and I would never suggest passing the buck, but if it is an ongoing issue that you simply cannot rectify yourself you are doing yourself, and your students, a disservice by not sorting it. And this may involve taking it higher. (Unless you have not tried to discipline them yourself already, and I suspect you have!)

I hope you don't dismiss this advice because it's from a 'lowly Dip'. I'm sure others will have better things to say.

gaeilgegrinds

I would never dismiss genuine advice given by someone with an obvious grá for teaching!
I don't give them permission to leave, they simply go from their last class to the yard or library or gym and skip mine. It's my business to bring them back. Their argument is they don't have to do it. I'm not making them to it, they're expected to study. The principal says it's my business. They're trying to make a point when I haul them back by being bold...my head is wrecked!

rainbowtrout

That's not really fair on you and that's not fair of your principal. While you are reponsible for them when they are in your classroom and resources may not allow for them to have a separate class at that time, you shouldn't have to go around the school rounding them up for class. That's just a waste of your time. Why won't the principal take some form of disciplinary action (i'm assuming he doesn't) against students who are skipping classes or are perennially late to class? More to the point, why isn't he concerned that students are actively skipping classes and are unsupervised unless you go looking for them? Does it ever happen that you are not able to find all of the students who are trying to avoid class? Where does that leave you in terms of something happening to them while they are unsupervised or for fire drills? Really I amazed that your principal won't do anything about it.

Toto Wolfcastle

I really don't believe that it should be up to you to continually bring them back to class as this clearly isn't working. It is a difficult situation and if the principal continues to insist that it is up to you then I really don't have any answers.

It's an awful position to be in. There's stress enough in teaching as it is without having to deal with students who involve you in a cat and mouse chase.

spurious

It's the principal's business that they are skipping class. You should not be in the position of searching for students who know they should be with you. It is the principal's business to put in place measures which prevent them from wandering the halls, or going off to the gym/library unsupervised. The safety of the children while on the premises is the principal's responsibility.

I sometimes feel sorry for the kids in our place, they are hounded so often for permission notes if they are seen in a corridor out of class, even legitimately.

Your school has a Health and Safety issue re these kids and the principal needs to address it.

gaeilgegrinds

I need to be prepared for this tomorrow. Does anyone know where I can find it written that they have to come to my class? My principal does not like to hear non-FACTual info!

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

It's the principal's business that they are skipping class. You should not be in the position of searching for students who know they should be with you. It is the principal's business to put in place measures which prevent them from wandering the halls, or going off to the gym/library unsupervised. The safety of the children while on the premises is the principal's responsibility.

It is the principal's responsibility but unfortunately, it is also the class teacher's responsibility. It's not fair that a teacher can get in trouble for something they effectively have no power over (if for example, one of those students who sneaks out gets hurt) but that's the system we have to work in.

Someone mentioned primary school and my stance on this is that (except in the case of Gaelscoileanna) it shouldn't apply to primary schools. A large number of Irish students who have no exemption start secondary school with an almost non-existant level of Irish so why foreign nationals should be exempted from learning Irish in primary school is beyond me.

rainbowtrout

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I need to be prepared for this tomorrow. Does anyone know where I can find it written that they have to come to my class? My principal does not like to hear non-FACTual info!

perhaps start with the rules and regulations of the school, school enrolment policy. They must be available in writing, and surely it says that students must attend classes/be punctual