whos best??

bright star

i want to get my fortune told, which is better? cards, palm, etc.
any numbers of anyone good in Dublin please let me know... also i would like to go and see a medium any advice?

Kelly O'Malley

IMO it's not so much the type of reading but the person doing the reading that gets the results.If someone is good it doesn't matter whether they read cards,palms,teacups or ink in a saucer,you'll get the result you're looking for.

Whispered

Kelly O'Malley wrote: »

IMO it's not so much the type of reading but the person doing the reading that gets the results.If someone is good it doesn't matter whether they read cards,palms,teacups or ink in a saucer,you'll get the result you're looking for.

+1

ghosthunter73

Yes I see it now it's coming in clearer now ....yes the fog is lifting....someone is going to ........take your money ......and give you false peace of mind. Keep your money, go out on town or treat yourself to something nice instead charity starts at home.:D

stevenmu

ghosthunter73 please read the forum charter and try to keep your posts within the spirit of the forum here

hiorta

In these matters, the ability and experience of the Medium or Healer is a major factor in the result, but another often-overlooked factor is the sitter.

Spiritual status always kicks in, and those kindly disposed to selflessly helping as they can, seem to gain more in return.

There are other factors always in play - need, karmic, motive and so on.

Basically, it is likely that the outcome is the right one for that individual at that time.
Whether or not it is welcome or desired doesn't really matter.

???

hiorta wrote: »

In these matters, the ability and experience of the Medium or Healer is a major factor in the result, but another often-overlooked factor is the sitter.

Spiritual status always kicks in, and those kindly disposed to selflessly helping as they can, seem to gain more in return.

There are other factors always in play - need, karmic, motive and so on.

Basically, it is likely that the outcome is the right one for that individual at that time.
Whether or not it is welcome or desired doesn't really matter.

So to sum up, what your saying is that if you tell the medium the answer they're are more likely to get it right?

Kelly O'Malley

??? wrote: »

So to sum up, what your saying is that if you tell the medium the answer they're are more likely to get it right?

Well it does make it easier for the reader to be given the answer along with the question:D:D:D but that's not a fair summation.

IF the reader is a good one they will be able to give the answers that are needed.

Sad though it is, there are plenty of charlatans out there preying on the gullible - I was at a psychic fair last summer, not reading just looking, and of the 12 readers in the room only two were genuine.It was easy to tell them apart from the glib moneymakers.

Looks as if ??? has run across those sort of readers - or is it just an innate cynicism???

I'd never buy another used car if I were THAT bitter...:D:D;)

PS Anyone want a 'well used' Rover?Very low mileage,the engine seized after just 600 miles and the gearbox started making strange noises after just 200 miles but it's a very pretty car - only a few marks on the leather seats from my tears...

???

Nope just have a very good knowledge of cold reading and use it regularly (never to deceive in a psychic context). No matter what you say about 'psychically receptive states' and the like it all comes down to telling the person without knowing your telling them. Barnam statements and good chance guesses can only get you so far.

Out of interest what set the two who weren't charlatons appart?

Kelly O'Malley

Out of interest what set the two who weren't charlatons apart?[/quote]

1] No 'stage dressing' - shawls,mystical symbols,hoop earrings etc
2]No deep penetrating staring at the client to gauge reactions
3]What they were saying,ie less questions,less vague generalities that could be taken to mean anything.

???

But why does that make them psychic? Surely the logical assumption is they're just better charlatons?

Kelly O'Malley

Why is that the 'logical assumption'?

As a reader myself I know it works as a medium (unintentional pun)

In a real reading things come out that can not be faked.Highly specific things (people's names,situations that can't be 'cold read') When you listen to a good reader (eavesdrop to be brutally honest - I don't allow others to sit in on my readings as too much comes out that is so highly personal to the client I'M embarressed to hear it!) you can spot the specifics that he/she could not have come up with any other way than through the medium of the reading.

Oryx

I agree with Kelly. You know the difference when you've had both types of reading, or if you give readings. The real thing has the wow factor, where the sitter wonders how in the hell the reader knew the information that comes up. It very specific stuff, not random waffle.

Kelly O'Malley

SPECIFIC is the operative word.

???

Kelly O'Malley wrote: »

Why is that the 'logical assumption'?

Now surely if you see a wall thrown together badly you think bad builder and if the wall is put together very well you think good builder not magic. This is the same situation, the logical follow up to bad coldreading is... good coldreading, not magic.

Specific information is easy enough to fake. First one into my head:

"Kelly, I'm getting a name coming to me... Dave? David? I think. I feel it's maybe from a social setting more so than a work one. I feel that you don't see him as much as you'd like to but sometimes these things just happen"

Did I hit? Please be honest!

That wasn't 'random waffle' but a good chance guess!

Oryx

??? wrote: »

Now surely if you see a wall thrown together badly you think bad builder and if the wall is put together very well you think good builder not magic. This is the same situation, the logical follow up to bad coldreading is... good coldreading, not magic.

Specific information is easy enough to fake. First one into my head:

"Kelly, I'm getting a name coming to me... Dave? David? I think. I feel it's maybe from a social setting more so than a work one. I feel that you don't see him as much as you'd like to but sometimes these things just happen"

Did I hit? Please be honest!

That wasn't 'random waffle' but a good chance guess!

Actually, ??? that was random waffle with a name thrown in. You'll have to do better.:) And yes, some readings may come across that way, but you would have to work a lot harder to impress if you were giving information like that. I dont disagree that it can be done by cold reading, and a good reader needs to get past any perception of that, to something a lot more rigid and specific.

Whispered

??? wrote: »

"Kelly, I'm getting a name coming to me... Dave? David? I think. I feel it's maybe from a social setting more so than a work one. I feel that you don't see him as much as you'd like to but sometimes these things just happen"

Did I hit? Please be honest!

That wasn't 'random waffle' but a good chance guess!

OMG thats not Kelly, you're reading for!! It's me - wow you're amazing please tell me more

People can cold read, thats very true. But you can't tar everyone with the same brush. I personally know two very talented card readers who would not even have heard the term cold reading. Also neither of them do it for money - please tell me why if they are all charlatans would these two people not charge for their skill - whether the skill is genuine or as you believe cold reading?

hiorta

""Originally Posted by ???

So to sum up, what your saying is that if you tell the medium the answer they're are more likely to get it right?""

Please show me where I said that?

A Natural Law is that you can only receive as you have given. This applies especially to Spiritual matters.

Now, if you want to discuss genuine / fake/ inexperienced Mediums, then that is another discussion. Remember another Natural Law - 'you will attract what you are'.

???

hiorta wrote: »

""Originally Posted by ???

So to sum up, what your saying is that if you tell the medium the answer they're are more likely to get it right?""

Please show me where I said that?

The post I quoted says quite clearly that if the sitter "selflessly helps" you get a better reading.

A Natural Law is that you can only receive as you have given. This applies especially to Spiritual matters.

Now, if you want to discuss genuine / fake/ inexperienced Mediums, then that is another discussion. Remember another Natural Law - 'you will attract what you are'.

Sorry what the hell are you talking about? Natural Laws? Gravity is a natural law. "you can only receive as you have given" is mubo jumbo.

helena.ryan wrote: »

OMG thats not Kelly, you're reading for!! It's me - wow you're amazing please tell me more

People can cold read, thats very true. But you can't tar everyone with the same brush. I personally know two very talented card readers who would not even have heard the term cold reading. Also neither of them do it for money - please tell me why if they are all charlatans would these two people not charge for their skill - whether the skill is genuine or as you believe cold reading?

They are true believers. A lot of people believe and use tarot cards and the like on themselves. They're not charlatons, they just believe the stuff. I am focusing on the people who take money.

KtK wrote: »

Actually, ??? that was random waffle with a name thrown in. You'll have to do better.:) And yes, some readings may come across that way, but you would have to work a lot harder to impress if you were giving information like that. I dont disagree that it can be done by cold reading, and a good reader needs to get past any perception of that, to something a lot more rigid and specific.

I'll admit it is a single piece of information given entirely out of context. If however you were being read and the 'psychic' was giving numerous statements like this you would not jump on it as viciously.

Kelly O'Malley

So you think it's not ok to (sometimes) charge for a reading?

I'd be unable to continue with reading if I didn't get paid - at least some of the time.

It's hard work and time consuming!

???

I think to read someone while claiming to use Psychic Powers for anyother purpose than novelty is unethical. I have no major problem with people who provide readings for people who are just going 'for the craic' but if anyone is genuinly looking for advice and a psychic provides it, it is immoral. This is especially clear where surgeries and the like are concerned. Asking a psychic should you get chemotherapy or try some diet and the psychic answering is just sick. The psychic should direct them straight to a doctor.

Now it is still unethical for a psychic to do that for free but it is okay for a psychic to charge for novelty readings. However, most psychics doing it for free are just doing it for fun.

Whispered

Kelly, was the q about not charging aimed at me or ???

If it was at me then to answer I would say that if you make your living from it then by all means charge - the people I'm talking about don't do this as a business so don't see fit to charge, but I'm sure if that was their "job" then they would. I sometimes charge for my services, and sometimes I don't, it really depends on the situation. I totally get what you are saying about hard work - people seem to think you walk in, shuffle the cards, read the cards and thats it. Most people know nothing of the hours of meditation, years of learning etc.

Kelly, can you PM me with where you are based and a bit about what type of readings you do please?

Whispered

??? wrote: »

. This is especially clear where surgeries and the like are concerned. Asking a psychic should you get chemotherapy or try some diet and the psychic answering is just sick. The psychic should direct them straight to a doctor.

This has been discussed a lot here and in the spirituality forum. Any psychic, healer, shaman etc who has any morals what so ever will NOT answer a question like that.

Oryx

??? wrote: »

I think to read someone while claiming to use Psychic Powers for anyother purpose than novelty is unethical. I have no major problem with people who provide readings for people who are just going 'for the craic' but if anyone is genuinly looking for advice and a psychic provides it, it is immoral. This is especially clear where surgeries and the like are concerned. Asking a psychic should you get chemotherapy or try some diet and the psychic answering is just sick. The psychic should direct them straight to a doctor.

Now it is still unethical for a psychic to do that for free but it is okay for a psychic to charge for novelty readings. However, most psychics doing it for free are just doing it for fun.

Some of the things you say illustrate a lack of knowledge about the ethical readers that are out there, and your assumption that readers are only interested in money and dont have the best interests of the client at heart. Yes, there are readers with morals, who would immediately direct a client to a doctor, if it was required. As has been said earlier, just because there are charlatans and chancers out there, dont assume all readers behave that way.

Kelly O'Malley

helena.ryan wrote: »

This has been discussed a lot here and in the spirituality forum. Any psychic, healer, shaman etc who has any morals what so ever will NOT answer a question like that.

+ 1000000 !

Aimed at ??? Helena.

mattfender

Had a Tarot Card reading in town the other day...lets just say I hope she's right and not a moneygrabber cos my future..its lookin good:D

???

KtK wrote: »

Some of the things you say illustrate a lack of knowledge about the ethical readers that are out there, and your assumption that readers are only interested in money and dont have the best interests of the client at heart. Yes, there are readers with morals, who would immediately direct a client to a doctor, if it was required. As has been said earlier, just because there are charlatans and chancers out there, dont assume all readers behave that way.

That was merely an example. It holds through from career to family advice as well. A psychic reading should be a novelty and should not be presented as the cards/stars/goat poo telling you what to do.

mattfender wrote: »

Had a Tarot Card reading in town the other day...lets just say I hope she's right and not a moneygrabber cos my future..its lookin good:D

I hate to burst your bubble mate (and if past experience serves me well I doubt I will) but surely it is just makes sense from a business point of view. Your more likely to come back if they comforted you. Also people are more willing to acept good news than bad. Telling someone they'll come into money is much easier to accept than telling them their dog will be hit by a bus!!!

hiorta wrote: »

""Originally Posted by ???

A Natural Law is that you can only receive as you have given. This applies especially to Spiritual matters.

Now, if you want to discuss genuine / fake/ inexperienced Mediums, then that is another discussion. Remember another Natural Law - 'you will attract what you are'.

Can someone please explain what the hell he's talking about! Is this a fringe fringe belief or generally accepted. I've just never heard it.

Also before the next round of sceptic bashing can someone also explain why the logical assumption is bad coldreader to psychic rather than bad coldreader to good coldreader. Cheers!


Further also... I am willing to receive psychic readings as well as they're cheap or preferably free from your reccommended psychics so that I will have first hand experience and can't be accused of being cynical and closed minded.

stevenmu

??? please read the forum charter and try to keep your posts within the spirit of the forum here.

Havermeyer

IMO it's not so much the type of reading but the person doing the reading that gets the results.If someone is good it doesn't matter whether they read cards,palms,teacups or ink in a saucer,you'll get the result you're looking for.

And where does the proof that one person is better than the other come from? I wouldn't waste my money OP. Put it towards something worthwhile like a holiday or a deposit on a house, if you haven't already got one.

???

Anyone gonna respond to me?

DANNY22XX

Whispered

??? where are you based? I don't knnow if a reader would appreciate someone coming to him/her as a "test" because the receptivness of the person getting the reading has a lot to do with how much info you pick up. I know you're going to brush that off and say "so in other words, unless I believe, it wont work!" but thats not really what I mean. For most psychics, healers etc, the persons privacy is of huge importance, so, if on a higher level you don't want to hear something, you simply wont, because the info wont come through. You're entitled to your privacy and if you want to maintain that (for whatever reason) a reader wont be able to get through it. I'm not explaining this very well, perhaps a reader or psychic can better explain?

???

Dublin. I will go in totally with an open mind. Now as I said I have a good knowledge of cold reading so I will block that but other than that I not go in with any prejudice. Hell I'll even tape record it.

stevenmu

I know what you mean Helena but I'm not sure if can explain it any better . It's like some people, even if they are eager, have almost a shell around them. It's actually a bit like when you're talking to someone and while they seem to be engaging in the conversation, at the same time you know that they're not really interested or they're distracted by something else, you can just feel it. And you can go through the motions with them and discuss the weather or football results, but you're not going to have much of a deep and meaningfull chat with them.

??? if you're going to try this, and I'd suggest that you do (the only way to learn about these things is to try them out for yourself), I'd recommend that you practise meditation first, and visualising your energy around you and opening it up. There's various posts on this forum and the spirituality one suggesting ways of doing this, I'll try and find links. With only a little practice you should be able to feel this happen, whether you believe it's anything real or just your own imagination, and you'll be able to repeat it at will. If nothing else it helps to focus and relax, but personally I believe it helps with getting readings too.

Also, I'd suggest you honest with the reader, maybe not call it a "test", most people don't like tests , but say that you are there because you are curious to see if there's anything to it.

???

stevenmu wrote: »

I'd recommend that you practise meditation first, and visualising your energy around you and opening it up.

Said it before and I'll say it again! Energy is the ability for something to do work. It is a measureable scalar quantity that's unit is the Joule. It is not some mystic undetectable thing. It is very detectable. So what on earth are you talking about?

stevenmu

You're looking at it from too much of a mathematical perspective . Energy isn't just a factor in equations, it's also something real and tangible. Electricity running through wires is composed of very real electrons. Electrons, protons and neutrons are all energy and combine to form the matter that make up everything we see and feel. Light from the sun is composed of photons. Plants through photosynthesis convert that into chemical energy and in turn produce the oxygen we breathe. Even the protons falling on our own skin react and produce vitamins and give us more energy.

It is quite a leap to accept there being an energy field of an unknown type around us. So if that's too much then just concentrate on the tangibles. Our bodies produce our own electric currents which flows through our muscles and nervous systems, we produce our own small but detectable electro-magnetic fields around us, and the light around us interacts with us, reflecting off of us, being absorbed and warming us. Try visualising these energies within you first, and then those around you. Try imagining that you can sense them, and then that you can interact with them and control them, and finally that you can allow others to interact with them too. Personally I think that if you can manage to feel that, whether you believe it's anything supernatural or all just in your head, it will help with any reading you go for.

Anyway, just a suggestion.

???

stevenmu wrote: »

You're looking at it from too much of a mathematical perspective . Energy isn't just a factor in equations, it's also something real and tangible. Electricity running through wires is composed of very real electrons. Electrons, protons and neutrons are all energy and combine to form the matter that make up everything we see and feel. Light from the sun is composed of photons. Plants through photosynthesis convert that into chemical energy and in turn produce the oxygen we breathe. Even the protons falling on our own skin react and produce vitamins and give us more energy.

Your a little off there! Electrons, protons and neutrons are matter. They are real physical particles. They hafve the potential to be converted into energy as all matter does (e=mc2) and will almost always have energy whether it be potential, kinetic or otherwise. Light and photons are a little trickier. Do you really want me to go into the dual nature of light? Basically a photon is an elementry particle that carries electromagnetic radiation but it is a particle not energy. Energy is a scalar quantity. It is just a number. I never said it isn't detectable, it's very detectable which is why we don't have 'energy fields'.

It is quite a leap to accept there being an energy field of an unknown type around us. So if that's too much then just concentrate on the tangibles. Our bodies produce our own electric currents which flows through our muscles and nervous systems, we produce our own small but detectable electro-magnetic fields around us, and the light around us interacts with us, reflecting off of us, being absorbed and warming us. Try visualising these energies within you first, and then those around you. Try imagining that you can sense them, and then that you can interact with them and control them, and finally that you can allow others to interact with them too. Personally I think that if you can manage to feel that, whether you believe it's anything supernatural or all just in your head, it will help with any reading you go for.

While we do have a very very slight electromagneticfield around us it is so small as to be utterly insignificant, otherwise we'd act like magnets! This field does not interact with the light though, the matter in your body does. Also an electromagnetic fied isn't energy. It is one of the four fundamental forces of the universe.


I am totally at a loss as to what you are trying to get me to do and to what purpose it serves.

Whispered

??? you should have a reiki session I know a fair few people who fobbed the whole energy thing off as rubbish, but could feel it during a session. (there may be other practises which do this, but seeing as how reiki is my area of knowledge I'll recommend that) Now just because you feel something doesn't mean you MUST believe it's energy from an unkown source. But it might open you up to the idea that we simply don't know enough to just disregard something when so many other people claim to see, feel, interact and manipulate it.

???

Hahahahaha you're joking right? Reiki is down to the placebo effect, the warmth something to do with warm hands and your expectation of feeling something. Someone tried it on me before and what did I feel? Nothing!!!

But it might open you up to the idea that we simply don't know enough to just disregard something when so many other people claim to see, feel, interact and manipulate it.

That is a text book example of an argument from popularity. If something is popular it doesn't mean it's right! The Greek and Roman gods had a bit of a fanbase, now if you claim to worship Appollo you're laughed at! Much more important is prior plausability and the prior plausability of reiki is... you guessed it zero. There is no suggested mechanism, that obeys real laws of physics. That is much more important for a SCAM (Supplementary, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine) system to justify research.

I'm not trying to ridicule your beliefs here. Maybe it works for you in an entirely subjective way, but objectivley reiki just doesn't hold water.

Whispered

I know you're not ridiculing - although if I did, I think I could be forgiven since your post started with

Hahahahaha you're joking right?

You are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion (although the hahaha bit was a small bit rude imo). I can't convince you, and I'm not really up to trying to. There are plenty of people here who would be much better at putting their thoughts into words. I'll just get muddled and frustrated

Just a few points though, to claim to feel heat from someones hands when they are a foot from your body is as silly sounding to me as the concept of reiki obviously is to you. By saying someone tried it on me once, do you mean you tried a session? If not the try it before you discount it.

Sorry, just adding - I know what you are saying about something being popular - but you are talking about ideas etc, not physical feelings. How can you say to someone "Oh you only felt that touch because it's popular"?

I also have loads of little experiences that I could tell you, but there is not much point at all I am is a stranger on the other side of a computer so I wouldn't in a million years expect you to believe that A)I'm telling the truth, or if I am that I'm not some nutjob

El_mariachi

Someone claiming to feel heat form a hand a foot away is not that far fetched.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect
They just add a little http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_validation
And finish with a lashing of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
Bam you got reiki! (and pretty much any alternative medicine)
The mind's most amazing ability is it's ability to fool itself.
There is a reason anecdotal is never used in scientific inquiry.

Also at ???
Supplementary, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine nice.

???

"Oh you only felt that touch because it's popular"?

No you feel the touch because you expect to feel the touch! You expect to feel the touch because everyone else does. There's that important extra step.

Supplementary, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine nice.

Thank you QuackCast!!! Give it a listen it's very good. Just search for it in the podcasts in iTunes.

MysticalSoul

Enery from reiki is not always heat. In healings in the past myself, there have been times where it has felt cold. People's bodies absorb the energy differently, and at different times as well.

bruno2017

Natasha Bracken in Ballycumber Co Offaly? Anyone have contact details or been