1st Sports C&C Ireland vs Notts Clontarf 27/4/08

AnimalRights

Canon 70-200mm L
ISO 800, used P on the Camera dial.
Handheld btw, sorry I didn't invest in the IS version of said Lens.








More here...
http://pix.ie/punkrock/album/321356

You can be brutal with me, Calina warned me yas were professionals.

whyulittle

No. 3 is a nice capture, the contrasting emotions of winning and losing. Shame you cut off his feet though, particularly as you composed it so well otherwise.

kjt

I just think when people say it's their 1st C&C etc and then it hasn't a fancy name sig that it's not really sorta cocha. :P

Only messing with ya! The first two shots seem a bit flat imo. I like the third, it's a good shot showing quite a bit. A pity he doesn't look more disappointed though, ha.

AnimalRights

I never got his feet in though!
I knew this as I posted it but damn I liked it too...least I know what I am doing wrong.....

I am also looking for critisims about the quality of Photos, ie sharpness, soft etc, that's where I feel I have most to learn, I'm very new to Photography and while I feel I can capture a picture it's the technical side I need to brush up on.

AnimalRights

kjt wrote: »

I just think when people say it's their 1st C&C etc and then it hasn't a fancy name sig that it's not really sorta cocha. :P

Only messing with ya! The first two shots seem a bit flat imo. I like the third, it's a good shot showing quite a bit. A pity he doesn't look more disappointed though, ha.

Did you not notice my thread title!!
I had you in mind!!

kensutz

Not bad, just home myself so I must start working on them

AnimalRights

kensutz wrote: »

Not bad, just home myself so I must start working on them

Looked for you but couldn't find you, only seen 1 Camera guy with a very large white Lens, I assume a 400 maybe?
I was the guy with the piercings, cap on and a grey hoodie, denim shorts...may have had Cider in hands
I called out your name but he didn't answer so er, guess it wasn't you?

Match itself was disappointing in the end, such a great start and then an anti climax with their innings.

kensutz

I was at the Killester end right next to the Friends Provident sign. I was the only one there with 300mm after about an hour. The 2 lads from Inpho and Sportsfile were gone after an hour or so.

AnimalRights

whyulittle wrote: »

No. 3 is a nice capture, the contrasting emotions of winning and losing. Shame you cut off his feet though, particularly as you composed it so well otherwise.

Compose = composition=subject matter=type of picture?

AnimalRights

kensutz wrote: »

I was at the Killester end right next to the Friends Provident sign. I was the only one there with 300mm after about an hour. The 2 lads from Inpho and Sportsfile were gone after an hour or so.

aahh I was outside or inside the bar...I never ventured up that end or other side of pitch......

whyulittle

Composition.

Overdraft

Honest opinion? The first two are very ordinary, but the third one is beautifully composed, just the kind of photo you would see in a better quality broadsheet (eg The Guardian).

You have a good eye, better than one or of the sports photographers on this forum who have much better equipment....which proves the best equipment in the world won't make up for having no 'eye'.

A bit more saturation would be good, but that's easily fixed. Very nice!

kensutz

Overdraft wrote: »

You have a good eye, better than one or of the sports photographers on this forum who have much better equipment....which proves the best equipment in the world won't make up for having no 'eye'.

I certainly hope that's not aimed at me.

Calina

kensutz wrote: »

I certainly hope that's not aimed at me.

At a guess I strongly doubt it and as a general note I wish people wouldn't get personal about people that they have disagreements with. I get weary with the handbags.

OP, well impressed with 3. Timing on 1 is nice but the colours are a little flat. 2 I'd drop. The two guys are too far apart.

Calina, incidentally warned no such thing. Calina only said that streaming would be counterproductive for people who wanted to learn. Some of the best photographers here are avid amateurs.

City-Exile

Overdraft wrote: »

You have a good eye, better than one or of the sports photographers on this forum who have much better equipment...

I can't agree with that.
I've looked at the entire set & there's only one picture of note.
The rest are bordering on dreadful.
Badly composed, not sharp enough, limbs cropped, no ball, insignificant moments, I could go on. I think you merely wanted to stir up old tensions.

City-Exile

OP, why were you shooting in P mode?
IS would have made no difference to you, if you were using the camera properly.
On a day like today, you could have shot with a high shutter speed & would have got away with ISO 200, 400 at most.

AnimalRights

Calina wrote: »

Timing on 1 is nice but the colours are a little flat. 2 I'd drop. The two guys are too far apart.

1) I need to learn to use the application that came with the Canon, I only really know how to use the crop and the auto adjust features.
2) Noted.

kensutz

I was shooting at 1/2000, 1/2500 and ISO 100,250,400 and towards the end when light was really bad I bumped it up to 800 just to see how well it'd cope. Ended up not needing to use ISO 800.

AnimalRights

City-Exile wrote: »

OP, why were you shooting in P mode?
IS would have made no difference to you, if you were using the camera properly.
On a day like today, you could have shot with a high shutter speed & would have got away with ISO 200, 400 at most.

Only left the Automatic side of the dial 2 weeks ago....
Not really figured the shutter speed side of it yet* read a bit..but....

I could do with some live tips from someone here sometime....over a pint in town.






*I know the bit where you use very slow shutter speed to slow down the water effect etc

Overdraft

kensutz wrote: »

I certainly hope that's not aimed at me.

City-Exile wrote: »

I think you merely wanted to stir up old tensions.

Ah, here we go again...everyone is honest with Animalrights on his photos, and rightly so, otherwise the comments are of no use to him.

But when one or two of the old reliables post woeful, badly taken, boring photos many of you gush so ludicrously it really makes a mockery of this forum. I thought it was largely about people learning to become better photographers, rather than a mutual back-slapping exercise?

Composition-wise Animalrights' third photo is infinitely superior to any of the photos I have seen displayed here by two sports photographers who claim to be professional.

My opinion, no more than that. If I'm banned for it, so be it - I'll cope.

OP - I tried to up the saturation on your third photo, what do you think?

kensutz

If you're there for the next FP Trophy match gimme a shout if you see me there and I'll give ya a hand.

AnimalRights

kensutz wrote: »

If you're there for the next FP Trophy match gimme a shout if you see me there and I'll give ya a hand.

Thats in May? Most def!
I read somewhere about it being 2 for 1 special offer?
So if I have todays ticket that'll get me in free next time?
Not a big thing though, I thought €13.50 was excellent value, I normally pay €20 in to watch Boh's at Dalymount which I feel is a rip off.

kensutz

Yes it is free once you retain your ticket from today. I'll be there in May so I'll be in the same spot as todays. I'll put up some pics on my flickr in a bit.

City-Exile

Overdraft wrote: »

Ah, here we go again...everyone is honest with Animalrights on his photos, and rightly so, otherwise the comments are of no use to him.

Do you read your own posts?
You couldn't comment on the photos, without having a go at someone else.

You mention two professional sports photographers, so I'm guessing you're talking about Timblefull & jamescrombie, as they're the only two I know, on boards.
I don't know why you're giving them such a hard time though.

Calina

Overdraft,

I like what you've done to the picture. However, the last time we did a meet and greet online something like 100 people responded. If you have issues with one or two of them please, please, please drop the personal comments and comment on the photographs.

Overdraft

City-Exile wrote: »

I'm guessing you're talking about Timblefull & jamescrombie, as they're the only two I know, on boards.

100% wrong.

Do you genuinely think people here will become better photographers if others gush about the mediocrity they produce?

There are people on this forum who are utterly deluded about the quality of their work. Why? Because everyone keeps telling them it's brilliant! It's not - it's the kind of rubbish you see filling up two thirds of the local rag (because those pictures come cheap).

As a result of this dishonest praise I'd guess there are people here who have gone out and bought expensive lenses, etc because they actually think they have what it takes to become full-time photographers. They don't because they just don't have an eye....and that's something money can't buy.

I use another forum (an American one) where the comments on people's photographs, amateurs or professionals, are honest and brutal - it's brilliant. And guess what? Everyone there learns because of that honesty.

City-Exile

There's a couple of very simple facts here.
1. Unless you're with an agency, you won't get much consideration by the broadsheets, when your shots are similar to what the agencies are offering, since they already have contracts with them.

2. Filling up local rags is what pays the bills, because it's the type of work the agencies don't go for.

3. Many tabloids & local papers will go with a shot like this,



rather than a better shot, because it's tidy & they can slot it in next to a brief match report. This is down to the picture editor's choice, not the images submitted.

4. With regard to honesty & gushing, you've come out saying that the OP has "an eye" for photography, when the overall standard of the set posted, clearly does not back up that point of view.

5. Many of us are friends in the real world & we discuss our faults in person. We learn from each other & enjoy the social aspect of our hobby. If they don't request C&C on their photos, we don't offer any.

6. With regard to becoming full-time professional photographers, many of us work in IT, where we earn far more than an agency Sports Pro would get in a basic package. It's that income which funds our hobby.

AnimalRights

Overdraft wrote: »

OP - I tried to up the saturation on your third photo, what do you think?

Aahh just went back into the Zoombrowser EX and found the Saturation/Contrast/Brightness section.
I really will have to play around more!
If I'm honest I thought you put too much in..
But I did see how mine looked flat, half way woulda being a happy medium probs.
Fed up looking at the pics already, Wish it was bright out now, would love to go snapping, this Photography **** has me hooked hook line and sinker.
Dying to use the 100mm Macro some more too.

AnimalRights

City-Exile wrote: »

3. Many tabloids & local papers will go with a shot like this,



rather than a better shot, because it's tidy & they can slot it in next to a brief match report. This is down to the picture editor's choice, not the images submitted.

Not taking any sides here as I'm not experienced enough to be an expert but.....
When I started taking photographs in January, I started of with pub gigs and a 50mm 1.4, I had read alot here about what photos "should" be like, the pic u show here is the type, so I took alot like that, close ups of band members etc, I thought thats the way to do it after reading here....
Problem is a couple of my mates (admitaddly non photo heads) complained that they wanted to see more of the bands, that they couldn't get the atmosphere from the night by these close up cropped photos!!
I was like....fck!!!!
So now at gigs I do a mixture...
This is like alot of things and not just photography, breeds of Dogs for dogshows is kinda the same, a Yorkie cannot be fawn colour but has to be black and tan etc etc

Soz for rambling on.......:D

City-Exile

If a paper asks you to cover a game, you give them what they want.
If your mates want to buy pictures from you, you can show them as much of the band as they want.

AnimalRights

Fair enough, I only use these forums to better my photographing skills, ie pick up tips!
I also find it fascinating.....
Only thing that bugs me is that boards.ie in general has the slowest loading forums in the world!!!! :mad:

:cool:

kensutz

AnimalRights asked me to up a few pics so here's a few:

Cusack edged & out


Cusack smacks one for 4


Kyle McCallan


Chris Read smashing one for 6


Strydom with an awesome catch

AnimalRights

City Exile was right!!!


I couldn't get in any closer with my 200mm lens though to be fair!

Very impressive, look forward to you giving me tips at the next match next month.

How would you have gone about getting pics with a 200mm btw?
ie lack of reach.

Another thing that showed me up as a newb was I was standing side on and I really did think that was the best position, now I realise I was never gonna get any facial expressions from that position unlike you got.

The most important thing I learned from this thread is to always make sure I have the ball in the picture!!

City-Exile

No. 2 is good, Ken.
I saw Dave Maher on Sky Sports, so I'll be checking the papers tomorrow, to see what he got. There's a few of his shots up on the Sportsfile gallery.

AnimalRights

kensutz wrote: »

Strydom with an awesome catch

Yep, I remember this one, was totally an excellent catch.
Look at the spectator with his back turned!!! Normally they're meant to try and catch the ball!
BTW one of the 6's from Notts landed either on a babies pram or almost next to it, think it actually did bounce of it, luckily it had the hood up, the parent was drinking a glass of wine!

kensutz

My 200mm was sitting right beside me but never even used it except at the warm up when Notts were messing about playing football. I decided to stick on my Sigma extender which worked with my 300mm so that gave it a 420mm f/4.0 which gave me the extra reach.

kensutz

City-Exile wrote: »

No. 2 is good, Ken.
I saw Dave Maher on Sky Sports, so I'll be checking the papers tomorrow, to see what he got. There's a few of his shots up on the Sportsfile gallery.

Thanks, he was sitting next to me for about an hour then decided to head off and work his way round to the exit. I checked out his stuff when it was time for lunch and from what I saw, he got some decent shots.

AnimalRights

Did you use a tripod?
I took mine by hand....Think there is a tripod in the father in laws.
Can a 70-200mm Canon use an extender?
I know nothing about anything like that.

kensutz

A monopod, it's hard work trying to hold the body and lens for the 6 hours work

Overdraft

City-Exile wrote: »

With regard to honesty & gushing, you've come out saying that the OP has "an eye" for photography, when the overall standard of the set posted, clearly does not back up that point of view.

So you didn't see anything in OP's third photo? Nothing at all? Sorry, but you have a lot to learn.

I said I didn't think the other two photos were up to scratch, but in my opinion he shows a natural talent and 'eye' in the third and an instinct for a good shot and angle. He says he is a beginner, or thereabouts, so all you look for at that stage is potential. If you can't give him credit for his third photo, well.....

In a previous life it was part of my job to choose photos for the supplement and magazine of a national paper - if I had worked in sport, which I didn't, and needed a photo from that Irish cricket match I would have chosen OP's third above any other on this thread. Its simplicity is its beauty, the composition is perfect....although a little more of the batsman's feet would have been better, but there's enough there of the left foot to work with.

Just my opinion.

Valentia

The first shot is not as bad as some have said and the third is class. I like that thinking outside of the box which Inpho seem to go in for a lot. For someone only starting off you are way ahead on many many beginners. Of course there is a fair bit to go but I think, even in this thread (taking out the tumbleweed) you will have picked up a good bit.

Excellent work Ken!

I have noticed a tendency here of late for some to take themselves a little too seriously. Of course it's had to say that without people thinking I am talking about them but what can you do? Overall though the standard on this forum is very high. That goes for all contributors to this thread. Maybe that narrows my comments down a little

Overdraft

Another good one OP, like synchronised swans

whyulittle

Overdraft wrote: »

Just my opinion.

But that's the thing, you don't just give your opinion. You continue to have a dig at one person in particular, who to my mind has never put himself forward as an expert or a pro.

And just for the record I have never met him, and I'm not sure if he has ever commented on any of my shots.

Overdraft

Valentia wrote: »

the third is class. I like that thinking outside of the box which Inpho seem to go in for a lot.

Phew, it's nice to meet someone who appreciates the excellence of that third shot! Since dropping in here a couple of months ago it's the best sports photo I've seen.

Valentia wrote: »

I have noticed a tendency here of late for some to take themselves a little too seriously.

** loud applause **

Overdraft

whyulittle wrote: »

But that's the thing, you don't just give your opinion. You continue to have a dig at one person in particular, who to my mind has never put himself forward as an expert or a pro.

One man's dig is another man's opinion.

I'm not entirely sure who you are talking about, I can think of maybe two or three people on this forum who are much too precious about their work, and don't welcome criticism of any kind - even though that's the only way they will improve.

I gave an honest opinion of one chap's work and got personal abuse in return - very mature!

If you all want an uncritical love-in then that's completely fine ("your photos are amazing", "thanks - so are yours", etc), but why not change the name of the forum to 'Photography Love-in'?

AnimalRights

I see no pictures in todays Independent online. :rolleyes:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cricket-spirited-ireland-push-nottinghamshire-hard-1360982.html

Paulw

I've no idea at all about cricket.

I really like the third image. It gives an interesting view. I think the photo works, even with his feet cut.

It would be good to see the EXIF on the first image. To me it seems a little soft.

The 2nd image does nothing at all for me. The background is too clear (though you can't always help that), and I can see where the focus of the photo is.

Having an eye for photography won't get your images published or used. You need to be able to get the shot(s) that will be used. Yes, we all need to learn, and we ALL continue to learn.

It's interesting how some posts seem to attack people in here. I'm not sure what the issue is, but someone obviously has issues. There are a number of photographers on boards who frequently have their images published, used by clubs, and privately purchased. I only know one or two people here who claim to be professionals. The rest of us are just very keen hobby photographers who enjoy what they do, and have their images used.

Personally, I've no interest in being a full time professional photographer. It simply wouldn't pay me enough. I've too good a job to leave it. Photography simply is a hobby I enjoy. And, I certainly hope that I help others with my comments and advice that I've learned through personal experience.

Overdraft obviously has some issue with me. Why, I've no idea. But, I certainly sleep well at night.

Some people in here ask for my advice and opinion. If they ignore it, or think it useless, that's fine with me. But, I will certainly give my personal view, for good or bad.

On another note - the boards gatherings are always great to meet people, share experiences and learn. Maybe one day overdraft will attend one, and see that boards is a place where people help each other, without personal attacks.

Valentia

On another note - the boards gatherings are always great to meet people, share experiences and learn.

That's for sure

Overdraft

Paulw wrote: »

Overdraft obviously has some issue with me. Why, I've no idea.

Why would I have an issue with you Paul, I don't even know you! A touch of paranoia there?

I gave a brutally honest assessment of a set of your photos on a thread a while back because I assumed this, like other photography forums, was about honest assessments - that's how we all learn, surely? This is how you replied:

Paulw wrote: »

Overdraft, care to share your sports images that are vibrant and unique? None of what you've posted makes sense. These images are vibrant, especially when printed. The colours are exactly as was seen on the day. Maybe you just need to have your monitor calibrated? As for the subject being the main focus, can you show me anything else in the images that is a point of focus?

So who has the issue with who?

If you are that defensive about your work and can't handle receiving advice (ie I suggested you needed to work on your exposure and composition) then why on earth ask for opinions?

Fajitas!

I think the topic on this has been completly left behind...

If people want to start a thread on the methods and ideals of C&C, be my guest, but for the moment, I'm locking this.

If the OP feels it can be brought back on topic, fire me a PM, please.