Guys, just sold my Merc...

tc20

Hi all,

i dunno whether to be sad or happy..

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Mercedes-Benz/230/car/990017/

Otto has left the building, or left my ownership at least..
after three years together, and unable to afford to start a stable, my trusty daily driver has moved on to pastures new (and interesting)
If i had both the moolah and the storage, i would have kept the car and got another, but alas..
I had initially intended to replace him with a late model W126, however the thoughts of handing Mr Gormley €1500 p/a for the next decade just doesn't make sense, so i'm considering a W123 280E, (possibly a coupe- but they're going for silly money). I would go as late as 81 or 82, even though i will have to take a hit on full road tax for a couple of years.
My W114 initially came from Sweden, and i had quite a bit of work done (rebuilt twin carbs, new front calipers, all new shocks, seals and assorted suspension gubbins) so its well able to run for quite a while yet.

farewell...

Dades

I hear bagpipes in the distance....

tc20

Aye, the noo'....

v300

Sorry to hear that.

The 'auld road tax is really working as a dis-incentive for us car enthusiasts.

PS A little birdie told me the rollover of the 30 year rule
for classic cars is going to freeze in the not too distant future,
so if you're buying an '81 in expectation of the rollover continuing
for another three years, it's more of a gamble that a guaranteed sure thing.

mike65

Eh? Better be able to back that up!

Mike.

v300

mike65 wrote: »

Eh? Better be able to back that up!

Mike.

I've heard rumours and talk about discussion within Government circles
that they are trying to figure out about.

!. The best way to go about it,and

2. Would it make a difference in an election.

I'm assured that it will happen in the lifetime of this government.

The rollover in the UK has stopped since the last five years or so.

Don't get me wrong, I love older cars, and I would love for the rollover to get to nice galvanised Porsche 911's, yummy.

I fear we won't make it though.

Don't shoot the messenger !!!

mike65

I bet some Tofu-kniting type has come up with that.

Mike.

v300

mike65 wrote: »

I bet some Tofu-kniting type has come up with that.

Mike.

Thje best way of putting it is that the incumbents kinda wanted to do it,
the new lads were mad to do it, and new lads WANT to take the blame for it,
what with their previously stated anti-car bias.

Hope that's not too cryptic for ye all.

mike65

As I thought, I was expecting the current system to be scraped last December.

Mike.

carchaeologist

v300 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that.

The 'auld road tax is really working as a dis-incentive for us car enthusiasts.

PS A little birdie told me the rollover of the 30 year rule
for classic cars is going to freeze in the not too distant future,
so if you're buying an '81 in expectation of the rollover continuing
for another three years, it's more of a gamble that a guaranteed sure thing.

Iv heard this aswell,why do the govenment have to keep messing around with us classic car owners, we'll get screwed on the vrt,and now on the tax, often the cheap roadtax is the only reason some cars are on the road.Isnt the country fcked up enough already.

Max_Damage

The government, especially the Greens, are aganist the people (well, aganist anyone who isn't a liberal peace-loving hippie maybe).

I don't understand WHY they would want to do this.

milod

It's either stupidity or hypocrisy. You can't argue against keeping older cars on the road - it generally prevents new ones being manufactured. Even if you keep a stable of older cars, you can only drive one at a time. Any pragmatic government would encourage classic ownership for environmental reasons, and perhaps give tax-allowances for emissions modifications where absolutely necessary.

The fact is that the Green Party don't want ANY cars on the road, even if they're new ones. Gormley and the Tofu crew want you on a bicycle...

prospect

I heard this rumour also.

What year is the cut-off in the UK?
Ireland will surely follow suit, if they go ahead with this.

v300

They love the hybrids (and diesels too) as an interim solution on the long road to a Green style "Final Solution", but they can't understand the logic in saying that the amount of energy that goes into refining the metals necessary in the quantities required for hybrids battery system cars, is staggering.

Eco-friendly my a*se.

v300

milod wrote: »

The fact is that the Green Party don't want ANY cars on the road, even if they're new ones. Gormley and the Tofu crew want you on a bicycle...

It's time to tell them what we think of them at the next election.

shawnee

Hi , should you get lonesome for the Mercedes , my friend has a 1974 280e 114 series which he is disposing of . He has moved on to the 280ce 1984 and hasn't the accomodation or time for the other.

mike65

prospect the cut off in the UK is Jan 1st 1973.

Mike.

tc20

shawnee wrote: »

Hi , should you get lonesome for the Mercedes , my friend has a 1974 280e 114 series which he is disposing of . He has moved on to the 280ce 1984 and hasn't the accomodation or time for the other.

Hi shawnee, maybe you can give me some more details about this W114..

I was thinking that the greens would move on this, the feckers..

I'm also going to throw a W116 into my search, they're a rare enough sight these days.. and they would definitely qualify for classic tax

MercMad

tc20 wrote: »

Hi shawnee, maybe you can give me some more details about this W114..

I was thinking that the greens would move on this, the feckers..

I'm also going to throw a W116 into my search, they're a rare enough sight these days.. and they would definitely qualify for classic tax

.....yeah and make sure you get a 6.9 litre one to really rub it in !!!

Oshbosh

cut off in UK is Jan 1973, it has never rolled forward, well not since i've been driving.

I have a 1982 230CE (W123) to move if you're interested, needs work of course but definitely worth restoring if you have the skills

mike65

w116 6.9 on carzone for 20k

Mike.

prospect

Pheeww, I just bought a 1972 car, so hopefully if Ireland do decide to go ahead with this stupid idea, they follow the UKs lead. (selfish I know).

tc20

MercMad wrote: »

.....yeah and make sure you get a 6.9 litre one to really rub it in !!!

and @ mike 65 - have seen that ad, crazy money :eek:

the current issue of Mercedes Enthusiast has 2 W116 6.9s around the £8k mark, a whole lotta car for that money, but slightly out of reach for yours truly.

Anyone know when the UK introduced the '73 cut-off? Methinks its only in the last 5-8 years. And following on from that, who'd like to throw a guess at what cut-off year our lot might introduce? If they are to do it, would it not make sense to make the cut-off 30yrs from now (ie 1978)

@ Oshbosh - thanks for the offer, but having poured quite a bit of money, and time off the road into my W114, i'd rather take on a car thats in all over good nick (no offence)

MercMad, can you throw a quick overview of the W116 on the table?

cheers

mike65

www.w116.org

Mike.

unkel

v300 wrote: »

I've heard rumours and talk about discussion within Government circles
that they are trying to figure out about.

!. The best way to go about it,and

2. Would it make a difference in an election.

I'm assured that it will happen in the lifetime of this government.

That would be very bad news for car enthousiasts and as others pointed out, for the environment too :mad:

Saabdub

It's funny how helping the environment ends up taxing people more and or encouragaing them to buy new cars, which means added revenue for the Government:rolleyes: It's a bit like Tobacco control, which translates into more tax on caigaretts, which means added revenue for the Government:rolleyes:. Or the road safety campaign, which translate into speed traps on straight/safe stretches of road, which means..... added revenue for the Government. I think there's a pattern here:mad:

Saabdub

MercMad

I think W116's are undervalued to be honest, though most out there a total crap !

At €20k that 6.9 proabably has a little room for negotiating but if its as good as they say it is I dont consider it to be too far out !

Maybe €17 for a true minter, with full history and requiring nothing !

Lesser W116's can be had for a quater of that, and are fairly modern to drive, if a bit thirsty as they are built like a tank.

Rust, as usual is the killer, and it can be found everywhere so dont be afraid to poke around good and hard ! Mechanically they are bulletproof and as with all Mercs regular service items can be bought through dealers or spurious for pocket money but unlike the older Mercs and the SL's the spares are harder to find, trim and body panels etc arte usually dealer only !

The 280SE twin cam sounds a little thrashy and has to work hard, you'd be better off with a 350SE V8 which sounds and goes better yet doesn't cost much more at the pumps. Obviously the bigger engined ones are the clear winners and usually have far more equipment, 280's were fairly sparse especially if you are lucky enough to find an original Irish one..........................wind up windows anyone ??

Enjoy the hunt !

tc20

Thanks for that Ben,

time to start digging so....

and yep, i'd go for at least the 350, thrum thrum

roight

hi all, new to this particular topic of classic cars, but have been lurking for quite a while through RSS feeds.

quick question on the tax bit, as the posts above assume some background knowledge (which i dont have!).

will the new changes in the taxing of cars affect classic cars which already fall inside the 'classic' category (say a 69 merc to be safe in my example).

basically i understand ye mean to say that the gov is thinking of 'cutting' the classic category off at lets say '78 or '79, but am i safe in thinking whats already in the classic basket still benefits from cheap road tax?

muchos gracias.

Dades

roight wrote: »

basically i understand ye mean to say that the gov is thinking of 'cutting' the classic category off at lets say '78 or '79, but am i safe in thinking whats already in the classic basket still benefits from cheap road tax?

It's nothing but speculation at the moment. As nobody knows what might or might not happen, all you can say is: "Your car is not safe unless it's registration date falls before the [insert random date]".

Even if your car is exempt now, if it falls inside any new cut-off date I would imagine you would simply lose that exemption. (A cut-off date of over 30yrs is unlikely IMO).

milod

Dades wrote: »

It's nothing but speculation at the moment. As nobody knows what might or might not happen, all you can say is: "Your car is not safe unless it's registration date falls before the [insert random date]".

Even if your car is exempt now, if it falls inside any new cut-off date I would imagine you would simply lose that exemption. (A cut-off date of over 30yrs is unlikely IMO).

I would bet the most likely application of a cut off would be to fix the existing 30 year rule on a given date. So for example, if they decide to do it in Jan 2009, then all cars manufactured before Jan 1979 will be exempt while anything manufactured after that date will never gain exemption.

Given the fact that this is how the UK have applied the law, it's most likely that we will just copy them... Orginally their road tax exemption provided for a rolling cutoff date of 25 years before the current date - but they fixed their date at 1973 some years ago. Remember though that any pre 2001 car of 1549cc and above in the UK can be taxed for £185 p.a. regardless of engine size.

BUT... a similar application of a cut off date here in Ireland would be far more expensive for classic motorists. Time to get lobbying

tc20

It doesn't augur well for us classic fans at all... damn those greens. :mad:

mike65

The only good news it that a 1978 car for example is pretty modern in many respects, and frankly once you get into the 80s the number of interesting models declines anyway.

But that could be my age showing.

Mike.

v300

I got a reply from Downing street regarding a further escalation on curbing the use of classic cars.

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page15326.asp

It's a small bit long winded if your'e not into classics,
but is a good an example of where the UK is going on this issue:

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about classic cars on the Downing Street website.

There is currently no proposal either at EU or domestic level to ban cars over a certain age.

Clearly, vehicle emissions are a concern not just from a local air quality perspective but, increasingly, due to their contribution to climate change. Therefore, the European Commission has proposed setting CO2 targets for car manufacturers, but these would only affect new cars. Also, the targets would be based on averages rather than enforced limits or bans.

There is also no EU or UK policy to provide incentives for scrapping old vehicles. A programme of incentives to phase out the most polluting vehicles was considered as part of the national Air Quality Strategy Review (June 2007). Two scenarios were modelled: the first considered incentives for the scrapping of all cars that were not compliant with the Euro 1 standard, while the second considered Euro 1 standard cars as well as all the pre-Euro cars. This analysis suggested that both scenarios would result in a large net cost to society and represented poor value for money, mainly due to the high cost of useful resources being destroyed (i.e. roadworthy cars being scrapped). This could also involve negative environmental effects, as the petition outlines. As a result, the Air Quality Strategy classified this measure as 'no longer under immediate consideration', which remains true today.

Local authorities are able to develop, implement and manage their own local air quality management schemes, allowing them to focus measures on priorities in their area. The Low Emission Zone (LEZ) operating in London is a prominent example. It currently applies to lorries over 12 tonnes, but will eventually apply to lighter vehicles such as large vans. However, cars, motorcycles and small vans (below 1.205 tonnes in unladen weight) are not affected. For the vehicles that are included, there is an exemption for 'historic vehicles' built before 1st January 1973.
Further Information

v300

More Green interferance:

"Dubliners could be hit with a congestion charge when the city’s first directly elected mayor takes office in five years' time.

Environment Minister John Gormley today claimed there was a “crying need” for such an office and said he or she should be able to impose a congestion charge if needed.

Modelled on the London mayoral system, the position would have executive powers and oversee the four local authorities within the Dublin region".

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=mhojidqlsnid&rss=rss2

Saabdub

I was visiting in Italy in January and my host couldn't take his E Class into Milan because of the CO2 charges. They levy a toll based on the CO2 emissions of the car. But I bet if it's introduced in Dublin it will hit everyone irrespective of what they're driving. Grannies in little Fiats will pay the same as V8 Jags:rolleyes:

Saabdub

Dades

mike65 wrote: »

The only good news it that a 1978 car for example is pretty modern in many respects, and frankly once you get into the 80s the number of interesting models declines anyway.

That's true in a way. If they kept up the rolling exemption indefinitely cars would be more and more comfortable/reliable, and the exemption would become increasingly attractive for those who don't just have a penchant for old cars.

mike65 wrote: »

But that could be my age showing.

Not just you! The only cars from the 80's I'd be happy to see exempt are the supercars of my 'yoof' ("Car" magazine: F40 v 959 :cool:). And owning one of those will never be dependent on cheap motor tax!

Saabdub

Dades wrote: »

That's true in a way. If they kept up the rolling exemption indefinitely cars would be more and more comfortable/reliable, and the exemption would become increasingly attractive for those who don't just have a penchant for old cars.

Not just you! The only cars from the 80's I'd be happy to see exempt are the supercars of my 'yoof' ("Car" magazine: F40 v 959 :cool:). And owning one of those will never be dependent on cheap motor tax!

The idea of a comfortable/reliable classic that you can run every day and only have to get under the hood for fun is appealing. I'd still pay the extra tax for a late 80s 911 or an 89 SL. Don't think I'll ever have the cash for an F40:(

Saabdub