Regional and Local Road Signposts

Colm R

I was in Clare over the weekend and it has to be said that local sineage is very very poor. Was heading to Kilkee and after turning off at Birdhill, I found it very difficult to find Six Mile Bridge. Sineage around the Burren is also not great.

However on the road from Kilkee out to Loop Head (R478) I found the most perfectly signed road I have ever seen in this country. Approaching each junction, there was an advance sign indicating each direction and numbering each road (R & L). There was also sineage at the junction, and again after it there was a confirmation sign with distance to destination.

It was very uncluttered and easy to read. There is hope after all.

murphaph

To be honest Colm it's about bloody time local authorities stopped shirking their reponsibilities in this regard, especially given the large sums of money from central government which has been handed ove to the councils solely for this purpose.

It's so hit and miss though-here in Fingal a relatively recent scheme (Ongar Distributor) has probably the most appaling signage (and lack thereof) I have ever seen, while the new Damastown-Cruiserath link road has generally excellent signage including signing of the old R121 as it's new Lxxxx number. Very thorough indeed.

Hopefully we've turned a corner but I still think it'll take a decade or more before councils generally play their part fully-having said that, the likes of Carlow and South Dublin have been signing better than average for a few years now.

Colm R

Dead right.

We can go on about examples all day. Clare is absolutely terrible. Its not a county I know my way around at all, so was reliant on maps and sign posts. The signposts were terrible.

I have a feeling that the person given the responsiblity for signing the Kilkee to Loop Head road was an anal perfectionist, which is just the type of guy you need for such a duty.

murphaph

Colm R wrote: »

I have a feeling that the person given the responsiblity for signing the Kilkee to Loop Head road was an anal perfectionist, which is just the type of guy you need for such a duty.

Couldn't agree more. If the irish people in the british part of this island can get it right then the irish people in the irish part can too!

Personally I would like responsibility for roads and signage to be removed from councils and given to the NRA (yeah, they make plenty of mistakes but are our best hope). In Northern Ireland the councils don't touch the roads-it's all done by Roads Service which covers the whole province/statelet/occupied 6 or whatever you like to call it!

Perhaps the south is a bit too big for this but we could easily have regional bodies roughly covering the provinces. This would mean signage would be more seamless and more integrated. Having said that.....the tiny councils, unitary authorities and various other local government forms in GB can manage to line and sign their 'patch' generally in a ccordance with their (strict) guidelines which are all backed up by law (we only have a traffic signs manual, they have this but the legal basis for it is the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions which is a legal document which forces councils to adhere to it or they will end up being sued by joe bloggs when something goes wrong because they haven't adhered to it-we have no such legal basis for our signage, just a very rough outline which means most of our signs are not on the statute books at all)

nordydan

murphaph wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. If the irish people in the british part of this island can get it right then the irish people in the irish part can too!

Personally I would like responsibility for roads and signage to be removed from councils and given to the NRA (yeah, they make plenty of mistakes but are our best hope). In Northern Ireland the councils don't touch the roads-it's all done by Roads Service which covers the whole province/statelet/occupied 6 or whatever you like to call it!

Perhaps the south is a bit too big for this but we could easily have regional bodies roughly covering the provinces. This would mean signage would be more seamless and more integrated. Having said that.....the tiny councils, unitary authorities and various other local government forms in GB can manage to line and sign their 'patch' generally in a ccordance with their (strict) guidelines which are all backed up by law (we only have a traffic signs manual, they have this but the legal basis for it is the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions which is a legal document which forces councils to adhere to it or they will end up being sued by joe bloggs when something goes wrong because they haven't adhered to it-we have no such legal basis for our signage, just a very rough outline which means most of our signs are not on the statute books at all)

Agree with the above, we don't need 34 county/city councils to know how to sign properly, just the one with the proper resources and divisional structure. All signs can be designed in the one place. Any student with the most basic knowledge of autocad and the manual could do it. Designing them is not rocket science. Hell, I'd love that job!!

murphaph

Me too. I can understand that years ago we had no money so signage was appaling/non-existant. It's different today and I cannot abide waste and when I see an incorrectly 'designed' (read:thrown together) sign which was paid for by the taxayer (me and the rest of us) and know that someday it'll be removed and replaced with a proper one it really annoys me. I'd make sure every sign I designed was spot on and in conformance with the TSM to the letter.

nordydan

No excuses, Jesus you could do the job without ever leaving your office - Google maps would be nearly sufficient.

Check out the R755 from kilmacanogue to roundwood/glendalough. A completely different road from years ago. First they resurfaced the entire road, then replaced the narrow bridge outside roundwood. Now they have signed every junction and L road. A fantastic job.

Carawaystick

Now, what would these two well signposted roads have in common? a busy tourist route maybe?

given the appalling track record of the NRA with motorway/national road schemes signposting (M50, N7) and n4/n6 junction getting 500m advance signage while Kinnegad gets 2km advance notice, or refusing to put signs at the western end of the dual carriageway in kilbeggan directing peope to Athone or Galway because "they would need to be changed when the next section is opened" the next section being a completely different scheme and not open for over a year...

invincibleirish

Down in my rural homeland in West Cork all L & R roads have been doneover with lots of new signage. if i were a tourist i would certainly find it helpful.

Bards

how about the signs on the new cahir bypass (N24) signposed "Caher"

When coming from Limerick the sign at the last roundabout on the clonmel bypass (N24) pointing the wrong exit for Waterford. The exit is signposted as 2 o'clock (right hand lane) while the exit is 10 o'clock (Left hand lane) - Has been this way for years now

there was another one at the start of the clonmel bypass (again coming from Limerick), but his has since been replaced.

icdg

murphaph wrote: »

Hopefully we've turned a corner but I still think it'll take a decade or more before councils generally play their part fully-having said that, the likes of Carlow and South Dublin have been signing better than average for a few years now.

South Dublin has been doing excellent signage for the past few years, the R136 being particularly so (but why oh why is there no signs for it at its northern terminus).

As for Carlow, well their new signage looks good, but they did inflict on us this travesty of a signpost...

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=268&pos=353

Clare I've found mixed. Last time I was down found one of the last remaining pre-1977 ADSs on the way to Lahinch. But signage on the N18, at any rate, is mostly good.

maxheadroom

icdg wrote: »

South Dublin has been doing excellent signage for the past few years, the R136 being particularly so (but why oh why is there no signs for it at its northern terminus).

IIRC, this was actually a condition of the planning permission as the residents were worried about people using it as an alternative to the M50 :rolleyes:

Colm R

I also find it really annoying when you follow a direction on a signpost, only to arrive at the next junction to find no signpost, or even a signpost without the town that was listed at the previous junction.

As you come in to Kilkee from Kilrush, there is a green signpost indicating you to turn right just before the town center to follow the N67 to Lahinch. After turning right, you go down this street and come to a cross roads with no sign post. This is on a national route for God sake. I assumed you go straight on, but realised I was wrong by the time I get to the Golf Course.

This was my first time in Kilkee since I was 14. I didn't have a clue where I was going.

On a side note, any Clare people here on the board able to enlighten me. Is it Lahinch or Lehinch. Official council signposts were about 50-50. Even the official council 50km/h speed limit signpost outside L?hinch had an E, while the Welcome to sign next to it had an A.

loyatemu

the problem with these well signposted roads is that as time goes by the signs will become dirty, misaligned, or go missing entirely, and they won't be maintained or replaced.

local authorities in this country put up signs but seem to have no system of maintenance or monitoring. The amount of signs you see around the place that are pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction, have been flattened by trucks, or are covered in dirt and slime, and they stay this way for years without anyone fixing them. Sometimes I'm tempted to go out with a spanner and do some guerilla maintenance, but I'd probably get done for "vandalism".

ga2re2t

Do county councils have a standard system (software) for their signpost database, or is it each council to its own? I imagine a system like the NRA's bridge database would work well: http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/Bridges/

I believe it really should be organised on a national level. In that way there can be some form of coherance between counties. It would also be useful for, say, GPS companies (Navteq and TeleAtlas) as they could then have the possibility of buying the rights to use the database in their software.

murphaph

Colm R wrote: »

I also find it really annoying when you follow a direction on a signpost, only to arrive at the next junction to find no signpost, or even a signpost without the town that was listed at the previous junction.

Not only is it annoying it is expressly forbidden in the Traffic Signs Manual. Once a destination appears on a sign on a route it should be present on every subsequent sign on that route until the destination (or turnoff to destination) is reached.

Colm R

That rule is broken everywhere, even on our national routes.

loyatemu

ga2re2t wrote: »

Do county councils have a standard system (software) for their signpost database, or is it each council to its own? I imagine a system like the NRA's bridge database would work well: http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/Bridges/

I believe it really should be organised on a national level. In that way there can be some form of coherance between counties. It would also be useful for, say, GPS companies (Navteq and TeleAtlas) as they could then have the possibility of buying the rights to use the database in their software.

I'm not just talking about directional signposts - warning signs, parking signs, the whole lot. theres zero monitoring and maintenance.

a national database is perhaps a bit over the top - the councils just need to send a van down each regional road once a year to fix any misaligned signs and make a note of any missing and broken ones.

Colm R

Do council workers drive cars. Not just the guy that fills in the pot holes, but everybody including the County/City Managers.

I work for a large company that provides a service to a lot of people. I also use the service. (I don't really want to give away my job). But anyway if I notice something is not working, I fix it if its my responsiblilty or inform the person who is responsible for it.

Most people don't love their job, but still take some pride in their work and do that extra bit to help things along.

A bit shur, isn't it grand country all the same!!!

Victor

The vast majority of modern signs will have the manufacturers label on the back that can be used to track back to where it came from (going the other way might be quite different).

South Dublin CC have started numbering and labeling all of their signs, though some of them could have done with straight out replacement first.