unknowing racial discrimination from friends

LegacyUser

I am half Irish and half Turkish. You would never know unless I told you as I have ultra-pale skin and blue/green eyes. My problem is that several times when I have made friends with a group of people, I've often discovered them to be anti-non-Europeans and to have a particular loathing for nationalities such as Turks. I have lived in 2 other European countries besides Ireland, one of which I hope to live in permanently one day, and I found the problem to be 10 million times worse in each of those. What has happened on several occasions is that I move somewhere, make friends, and sometime later during discussions find out about their hatred of my heritage. I've been there when they say things like, we should get rid of all the non-Europeans from Europe, even the descendents who are part-European, all other races are inferior, etc. Obviously they did not know my heritage and didn't realise they were slagging me off here. Now, I know this sounds like I make friends with Nazi types and you probably wonder why I don't find some new friends. But these are just normal people, and I really like them in every way apart from this. The thing is, I'm always trying to hide my heritage because of this. I don't talk about my family and I changed my last name because I feel ashamed, and don't want people to know, after the things they've said. I worry when they find out they will think less of me. I do of course have some friends who are not racist and not bothered by such things, with whom I have revealed my real self. But I feel bad knowing that so many people think so lowly of people like me.

OK-Cancel-Apply

IMHO, people like that are not worth keeping as friends. Never apologise for who you are. THEY are the ones with the problem, not you. If you confront them about this, however, they'd probably feel ashamed and embarrassed, and probably start making excuses for what they said.

deisemum

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

IMHO, people like that are not worth keeping as friends. Never apologise for who you are. THEY are the ones with the problem, not you. If you confront them about this, however, they'd probably feel ashamed and embarrassed, and probably start making excuses for what they said.

Totally agree, don't let them get you down. As an irish person living in London during the 80's and 90's my irish friends and I regularly got a lot of anti-irish comments thrown at us so know where your are coming. Likewise on some occasions when I'd be in a new situation or group and hadn't yet spoken some ignoramous would make a comment slating the irish and then once I'd speak I'd sometimes get the "oh but you're alright" sort of comment.

My husband and his irish friend were the only irish people on the local football team and only by chance found out they were called "sem" and "tex" behind their backs.

Rise above it and be proud of you are.

RedXIV

Sometimes you'll find lads take the piss out of the average joe because they have no one else to take the piss out of. this happens, but the main thing is that he learns the pain it causes if he makes friends out of the people causing this trouble. thats confusing i know, but all i'm trying to do is isolate the need to bully with these lads and henceforth, make an easy night for everyone

Overheal

RedXIV wrote: »

Sometimes you'll find lads take the piss out of the average joe because they have no one else to take the piss out of. this happens, but the main thing is that he learns the pain it causes if he makes friends out of the people causing this trouble. thats confusing i know, but all i'm trying to do is isolate the need to bully with these lads and henceforth, make an easy night for everyone

You mean like that time when we all had our own college-course-forum where you all just took the piss out of me for being american, and I let it happen cos I was such a keyboard warrior? Actually, I miss that. wtf Red?

I can sort-of relate OP. except instead of hearing it in the third degree I hear it in the first; and then its usually just craic.

In my case it took me a while before I stopped taking offense to it though - during which time I disassociated myself from those people. Time has passed however and while I don't talk to more than half of them anymore in any real way, the good few were revealed with time.

I suggest you put some space between yourself and these people if only to feel them out.

kowloon

Do they even know why they don't like Turks?
Gob$hites often dislike certain nationalities because they think they should.

Carrigart Exile

ashamed wrote: »

I am half Irish and half Turkish. You would never know unless I told you as I have ultra-pale skin and blue/green eyes. My problem is that several times when I have made friends with a group of people, I've often discovered them to be anti-non-Europeans and to have a particular loathing for nationalities such as Turks. I have lived in 2 other European countries besides Ireland, one of which I hope to live in permanently one day, and I found the problem to be 10 million times worse in each of those. What has happened on several occasions is that I move somewhere, make friends, and sometime later during discussions find out about their hatred of my heritage. I've been there when they say things like, we should get rid of all the non-Europeans from Europe, even the descendents who are part-European, all other races are inferior, etc. Obviously they did not know my heritage and didn't realise they were slagging me off here. Now, I know this sounds like I make friends with Nazi types and you probably wonder why I don't find some new friends. But these are just normal people, and I really like them in every way apart from this. The thing is, I'm always trying to hide my heritage because of this. I don't talk about my family and I changed my last name because I feel ashamed, and don't want people to know, after the things they've said. I worry when they find out they will think less of me. I do of course have some friends who are not racist and not bothered by such things, with whom I have revealed my real self. But I feel bad knowing that so many people think so lowly of people like me.

I am guessing one of those countries was Spain. Being of mixed national backgrounds is very trendy now and certainly not something for you to be ashamed of.

ojewriej

It happen to me sometimes as well, people dropping casual anti-semitic comments. Now, I don't really consider myself jewish, but one part of my family is, quite orthodox as well.

So sometimes when I hear a stupid comment, I bring that up, that usually mortifies them and shuts them up. The thing is, people being casually racist, they are not really racist, they are just repeating something they heard at home or somewhere else. If you'd asked them why they are saying these things, they wouldn't have a clue.

Most of the time I ignore it. We are all guilty of some casual prejudice, whether it's telling blonde jokes or laughing at how stupid them americans are. As long as it's nothing to serious, i let it go.

luckat

Look at it this way, OP - you've got an automatic gob****e-ometer set up! You can spot a gob****e early, before you've committed to a friendship.

LegacyUser

Carrigart Exile wrote: »

I am guessing one of those countries was Spain. Being of mixed national backgrounds is very trendy now and certainly not something for you to be ashamed of.

You are right. One was Spain and one was Norway. The thing is, sometimes the things people say are so hateful, it makes me feel some some sub-human parasite that should be exterminated, not fit to breed with true Europeans. I worry that some people will be put off dating me, etc, if they find out.

Grawns

In my experience, People ( especially girls) fear the Turks because of what the majority of Europeans see as their outdated patriarchal society. I visited Istanbul once and had a horrible time. The men were aggressive towards me and my friends ( western girls travelling alone). On the other hand they were very friendly towards the European men we met. This was an isolated experience but when I lived in Belgium I lived in a Turkish quarter (total white flight from the area) and again I found the men were only civilised towards other men. I met some very nice Turkish girls though who kept their lives very compartmentalized. It was a terrible struggle for them to be both European and Turkish especially as they were university educated. It does seem to be Muslim versus Christian secular struggle.

I do feel sorry for you though and I am surprised by the extreme things you have heard said. I wouldn't hide who I was though as people will rethink their views when faced with the evidence of their folly. Think of the Nigerians in Ireland now, they can't pass for European so they have to face and challenge peoples preconceptions everyday.

all the stars

thats awful - people can be terraible, i think its maybe not understanding differant cultures and their own ways...

Differant cultures are odviously differant, i worked for a turkish man and he was lovely - i just found it hard to get used to his ways - he had no idea about personal space - he would be up real close when talking which i found uncomfortable as most people kind of keep their distance, its just differances in ways -

But you should be proud of your heritage and never hide it, it is what makes you unique and you... be proud!

wylo

OP, coming from a person that hangs around with a bunch of lads that carry on a bit like that, i can assure you they dont really actually beleive what theyre saying,its just a crowd mentality, they dont genuinely think that non europeans should be taken out of Europe, well thats in my opinion anyway. If they found out that youd been keeping it secret because you thought they were racist and wouldnt like you they'd probably be mortified because theyd realise how they sound.

Thats my opinion anyway, that basically groups of lads tend to carry on like that but when push comes to shove theyre not acutally racist. Id be more inclined to tell them your heritage and they'll shut up in a flash, the worst they'll probably do is take the piss out of you but they will NOT be actually trying to offend you.
Although I only speak for Irish people here

Carrigart Exile

ashamed wrote: »

You are right. One was Spain and one was Norway. The thing is, sometimes the things people say are so hateful, it makes me feel some some sub-human parasite that should be exterminated, not fit to breed with true Europeans. I worry that some people will be put off dating me, etc, if they find out.

I am sorry to hear that. I know friends who moved out to Spain and are selling up and coming back because they cannot stand the racism which seems rife.

LeixlipRed

If these people feel this way they are not your friends. They don't accept you for who you are and hence are not your friends. There are plenty of people out there who care nothing for the race of a person. Find some people like this and befriend them

wes

Whenever, someone says something racist to me. I say to them in no uncertain terms that they can kindly go f*** themselves.

I was born here and I am Irish and if anyone says **** to me, I will say **** right back. This is the only right way to deal with racists.

Overheal

wes wrote: »

Whenever, someone says something racist to me. I say to them in no uncertain terms that they can kindly go f*** themselves.

I was born here and I am Irish and if anyone says **** to me, I will say **** right back. This is the only right way to deal with racists.

Give as good as you get sure, but I hope you consider most remarks are tongue-in-cheek. Don't reform the St. Patrick Battalion just because someone says Paddy in a less than ideal context.

wes

Overheal wrote: »

Give as good as you get sure, but I hope you consider most remarks are tongue-in-cheek. Don't reform the St. Patrick Battalion just because someone says Paddy in a less than ideal context.

Me and my mates take the piss out of each other all the time.

I am talking about some idiot calling me a "Paki", especially if I don't know the guy.

I know how you feel. It really is such a burden to be anything other than pure Irish in this country. Aside from the constant 'where are you from?', 'you don't LOOK Irish' etc statements, or even worse, the people who try to ask a million 'subtle' questions to find out where you're 'really' from, I've been physically attacked in town several times in the last few years - the last time was 2 weeks ago, and when I went to report it, even the GUARD said it was likely because I was attractive and foreign looking (their words), e.g an easy target. So be glad you at least don't LOOK foreign. Unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant people in this country who consider anyone who isn't pure Irish to be inferior. I can't believe the amount of people who insinuate I'm another race (I'm half English, 1/4 Irish and 1/4 Mediterranean - what on earth is not white there?) just because I have tanned skin. If I WAS half Indian or something that'd be fair enough but I'm sick of being considered something I'm not because people are too ignorant to know the difference.

All you can really do is inform people, let them know they are being ignorant and that you don't appreciate these type of comments. It might fall on deaf ears but it needs to be said. With all the recent immigration to Ireland there's bound to be tons more people who are half Irish and half something else, Irish born kids of Polish parents etc. I think eventually people will get used to the idea that not everyone is JUST Irish, and that it's not a big deal at all. Growing up in England it was totally normal to meet kids from mixed backgrounds, nobody thought twice about it but here it isn't like that yet.

StormWarrior

[quote=[Deleted User];55715481] If I WAS half Indian or something that'd be fair enough but I'm sick of being considered something I'm not because people are too ignorant to know the difference.[/QUOTE]

Why would that be fair enough? I guess even people who are half Indian but grew up in Ireland don't want to be considered different.

I didn't mean fair enough that I wouldn't be considered Irish, I mean fair enough that they'd be right about being Indian, if I actually was part Indian, but the Mediterranean is nowhere near India, obviously it's in Europe just like Ireland. It makes people look really ignorant, as if they think any person with skin darker than pasty white is automatically Indian, which to me is pretty damn racist. If they guess Spanish or Portuguese, at least they've got the right bloody continent and don't look like ignorant morons. If people are too stupid to tell the difference, why comment at all?

Memnoch

Most people are actually racist, though there are several degrees, some are more than others. Some are very overt, others just have a subconscious disatisfaction.

It derives from basic human selfishness, fear of "competition" and the desire to self-propagate. Hence all the "sensible debates about immigration," in a lot of modern European countries.

Because while it's not okay to discriminate against someone due to the color of their skin. (something they were born with and not in their control)

It is okay to discriminate against them because of where they were born. (something they were born with and not in their control)

People always look for ways to gain advantages and discrimination is merely a manifestation of this basic human trait.