Importing Building Materials from China

clarebuild

Hello There,

This is my first thread so I hope it goes OK.
My husband and I just got planning permission yesterday for a 3500 Sq Ft 2 storey traditional Irish Georgian House in Co. Clare!! Yippee!

We are seriously considering travelling to China to source some of our building materials and just wondering does anyone have any experience of doing this? Or does anyone have any opinions on doing it full stop?

We are going direct labour (neither of us are builders) and it is going to be our house for life so we want to use high quality materials wherever possible.

Any advice / comments gratefully appreciated!!! We are probably going to source bathroom sanitary ware and taps from Germany as Grohe and Villeroy & Boch is so expensive here in Ireland.

We were thinking of sourcing the following in China:

Natural Roof Slates
Limestone Window sills (37 of them!!!)
Limestone Surround & Steps for the front door
Solid Wood or possibly aluminium clad sliding sash windows (argon filled, double glazed etc)
Limestone for outside patio area
Possibly a built in kitchen
Hardwood Internal Doors
Hardwood Internal flooring
Marble for flooring in approx 1500 sq foot
Marble for bathrooms (4 Baths)
Coving for ceilings
Two fireplaces
Extra Long Heavy Silk Curtains (7 reception rooms plus 4 bedrooms)
Furniture: (we are not sure about getting this in China)
3 * 3 Piece Suites
Dining Room Table & Chairs & Large Sideboard
Kitchen Table & Chairs
Large Desk & Chairs for Study
4 Sets of Bedroom Furniture
LED lighting
Electronic control panels for lighting settings in each room.

Many Thanks!

muffler

First thing that springs to mind is the cost of transporting the materials followed by warranty followed by sizing of components for here (door sizes for example)

I'd look to the UK first, the exchange rate is favorable at the moment!

Villain

I know people who have sourced materials from China and it has worked out well for them, but the savings aren't as great as you might think when you take transport, customs, the cost of flying to china and work days lost and managment costs for people to manage and organise shipping and customs etc into account.

smooth operater

For a single build i cant imagine you saving much, i know of a big developer is doing this though

250882

Just picked up on one thing there!
steps for the front door
surely if you only recieved planning lately you will have to comply with the current building regulations which means level access to main entrance

clarebuild

Thanks for the advice so far.

I should also have said that we have received a quote from an Irish company who have a man based in Shanghai who charge €270 plus VAT per day to accompany you to the various suppliers in China. The Irish representative in Shanghai gives you a price on the spot for what you want and that price includes shipping to your door in Ireland, insurance and any import duties and VAT.

Basically they are going to charge you a premium for taking the headache out of shipping the materials and dealing with taxes due. I like this idea but I wonder are they taking the good out of any value that is to be had by sourcing in China.

Villain - it is a good point about the expense and time taken to go over there. We were thinking of using the trip as an excuse for a bit of a holiday also. Half of the trip sourcing products and the other half for sight seeing.

Warranties are also definitely something to be considered. Will the money that we potentially save be worth the increased risk if something goes wrong! This is the million dollar question!

Thanks again for comments!!

sinnerboy

Could be good - however

What if products fail in use ?

What if you need more materails in future to match existing . ( Repairs or extensions works ) . Mind you that can be same problem with local stuff going off market .

I know most jobs are hassly with deliveries , wrong type / colour / missing parts/incomplete quantities / broken parts etc . The risk has to be multiplied with sourcing from so far away .

If you were engaging a contractor I would say forget it - claims for delay potential writ large

But if you don't mind "rolling the dice" a little , it may work out - open mind

ircoha

Any advice / comments gratefully appreciated...

Looking at the carbon footprint aspect of this, I would not even consider shipping stone, marble and slate from anywhere outside of Ireland, not to mind China.
Neither would I consider hardwood doors unless you are certain that they are from renewable forests.

From a BER aspect, you will have issues if the windows etc do not have the requisite approvals.

Looking at it from the geo-political aspect of this, I would not consider purchasing anything from China if at all possible. I don't for a moment support the concept of using our participation in the 5 ring circus in August as a political tool, it is time to stop supporting/participating in their economy.

ircoha

ircoha wrote: »

Looking at it from the geo-political aspect of this, I would not consider purchasing anything from China if at all possible.

[drifting OT]
I feel the same way, to save our manufacturing economy as much as anything else!
[/drifting OT]

deemy

Deleted User wrote: »

[drifting OT]
I feel the same way, to save our manufacturing economy as much as anything else!
[/drifting OT]

+1. If you are planning to build such a big house surely you can afford to buy the materials in ireland for it. Especially in a time when the economy is supposed to be slowing down. support the 'realible' manufacturer /builder whatever it is and keep the jobs going at home in ireland. and think also of the environmental impact of this. Above all places China is the last place I would consider buying anything. Do you not watch the news or have you not seen any of the documentaries lately??

Sorry didnt mean to have a go.

clarebuild

I think its alright as long as you have disabled access to the ground floor of the house which we do through the back door. But thanks for noticing!

clarebuild

Yes my husband and I watch the news!
I understand where you (and other contributors) are coming from and the environmental and political aspect is definitely something we will take into consideration.
However, is it fair to say that most of the items listed on my list are items that will not be sourced locally in any event. For example in our current home, we purchased everything from local hardware, tile store, furniture store etc. Nearly all of the furniture when we received it had Made in China stamp. Tiles came from Turkey (not great record on human rights), god only knows where the flooring came from.

The point I am trying to make is that unless you source locally and demand to know where everything is coming from - the chances are that the local supplier is selling you products that he/she has already sourced themselves in China! So why not just do it yourself and cut out the middle man.

We are using all local traditional builders for our house. And yes we could afford to buy all our materials in Ireland but what we are trying to do is have as small a mortgage as possible so that in future years we are not going to be slaves to our mortgage! I dont think that is unreasonable?

Thanks again for all comments - it is great to get other peoples honest opinions, whether I agree with them or not, it does make you think.

c class 226

Wouldn't even consider going to China for a lot of the reasons mentioned above.
However if you insist, make sure you have ALL materials on site Before you even dig a foundation. If your window opes are built and then you find the windows are 20mm the wrong size, you are in serious doodoo; and believe me it happens - even with Irish sourced materials.
C class 226

mikehn

Hi Clarebuild
Best of luck with your project, wish I was starting again there are so many options now available.
I work near a newly opened chinese restaurant in tralee, i got to know the manager reasonably well during the fit out period, he brought in about 90% of the fittings from china, it all arrived in two container loads.
My boss was building a new house and this guy brought in the most fantastic glazed doors for him at about 30% of the cost of comparable ones here.
So there is value to be had but prices are starting to nudge up there due to rising fuel costs and labour costs are likely to rise as the chinese government have given a tentative nod to limited forms of trade unions.
a neighbour of mine brings in a container from the US every couple of months 3200 door to door, mainly tools but he has recently brought in a lot of bathroom luxury fittings at silly prices (low) hot tubs jacuzzis etc.
Use the net

sinnerboy

i would take the view it is better to engage the chinese rather than isolate them - better chance of influencing them then

i would take a pragmatic view and be mindful of the issues i raised earlier

offset your embeded carbon footprint by insulating to the highest standards , achieve execllent air tightness and get your ventilation right - if you are going for open fires - fit dampers for when they are not in use

engage a BER asssor now to reduce your energy demand and indentify the best heat source

engage an architect too for the build - you need one more than most if you self build

De_man

clarebuild wrote: »

Hello There,

We were thinking of sourcing the following in China:

Natural Roof Slates

Congratulations on your planning!!!

please, please stay well clear of the roof slates!!! i know of a build in clare just outside ennis that used chinese slate and it ended up a complete
disaster:(

The chinese slates in question were extremely brittle - very high wastage, turned from a nice black/blue to white in a few months:eek:, homeowner ran out of slates:rolleyes: supplier suddenly could only speak very poor english

Regarding the cost, they were about the same price as "normal" cement fibre slates not a huge saving

i reckon get the windows doors etc here, the rest well go for it - if you think you'll save money....(when you get to second fix carpentry pm i'll give
you details of a very good joiner just outside feakle)

as dolanbaker said the uk offers very good value at the moment (be careful with metric / imperial fittings for plumbing though)

really there's a lot to be said if something goes wrong and believe me it will :eek: to be able to return stuff to your local suppliers

best of luck

Mellor

At least you didn't inclued a heat exchange or solar panels in the list,m

sinnerboy

De_man wrote: »

i reckon get the windows doors etc here,

100% agree . windows when delivered can fail to open and close smoothly . glass can be broken . handles can be broken . The local guys here have very good after sales back up - very good - snags are atteneded to .

Also - what if the chinese seals and draft strippping fail prematurely - or the double galzing seals fail leading to trapped condensation - you could easily see a precieved advantage go .... out the window

( could not resist - sorry )

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

100% agree . windows when delivered can fail to open and close smoothly . glass can be broken . handles can be broken . The local guys here have very good after sales back up - very good - snags are atteneded to .

Also - what if the chinese seals and draft strippping fail prematurely - or the double galzing seals fail leading to trapped condensation - you could easily see a precieved advantage go .... out the window

( could not resist - sorry )

The entire project could HINGE on this

clarebuild

You guys are too funny!!!

Many thanks for all the feedback. The windows are pretty much out for me after giving it much thought, and probably the slates too. We have got a good price for natural slate from local supplier so are prob going to go with him.

At the moment we are thinking of just sourcing the marble flooring and tiles for bathrooms, wood flooring & skirting, cornicing, Limestone Window sills, Limestone surround & steps for the front door and some curtains and furniture if we see stuff that we like.

We are def going to go for a look if nothing else. We have an architect (and friend who is engineer) supervising the build. Architect has speced highest levels of insulation along with geothermal heating system.

Please keep the comments and window puns coming!

sinnerboy

Damn - you saw right through us :rolleyes:

Enjoy china :pac: :pac: :pac:

Mellor

clarebuild wrote: »

At the moment we are thinking of just sourcing the marble flooring and tiles for bathrooms, wood flooring & skirting, cornicing, Limestone Window sills, Limestone surround & steps for the front door and some curtains and furniture if we see stuff that we like.

Jus something to watch for regarding furniture (might sound like a joke but im serious), as chinese people are in general smaller than westerners and because they love making hings smaller, their standard furniture size will likely be smaller. Check sizes before you buy. I suppose clothes would show this, check the tag on a piece of clothing from a big international copany, it will have lots offlags with sizes,
US-M
UK-M
IRE-M
China-L

ircoha

clarebuild wrote: »

1 You guys are too funny!!!

....2 Architect has speced highest levels of insulation along with geothermal heating system....

Re 1 wait till u see sinner's bill:pac:

Nice to see the windows and doors idea is now an open and shut case
re 2: any chance you would share the U values with us please?

Have u looked at Spain for tiles?

clarebuild

Will def keep that in mind Mellor re sizing in China. We are not going to buy anything furniture wise unless we can actually see it and try it out. Things like a 6ft sleigh bed I would hope would be standard but we will have to be careful.

Ircoha, we were thinking of Alicante for marble tiles as it is supposed to be unreal the selection they have to choose from. Our marble installation man highly recommends it and would organise shipping from Alicante on our behalf. We are looking into it. In relation to U values this is more my husbands area of expertise! I think we are both a bit clueless about it to be honest. Although from the start with our architect we have emphasised about our need for excellent insulation. From the people we know who have used Geo Thermal, they have all stressed the need for good insulation, otherwise you are wasting your time trying to heat the house.

Should we ask our architect to supply us with U values, or is this a separate speciality altogether - the BER assessor? My understanding was that each individual product would have a U value such as the windows; walls; roofing insulation etc. Is this what you are looking for Ircoha? Or it is an overall assessment?

We have been trusting our architect to spec what we have specified but I suppose that is passing the buck a little. It all seems a bit complicated to be honest. He is the expert so we thought - leave it to him?

Any thoughts are kindly appreciated!!!

sinnerboy

BER ( building energy rating ) is a 3 legged stool -all are required together

1 . insulation levels - of walls floors roofs windows and ext doors each will have u values which indicate how quickly / slowly they will allow heat to pass. like in golf , the lower the u value number the better

2. air tightness level and ventilation strategy . the assmebly of the building must be carefully detalied , air tight membranes may (or may not ) be required . heat recovery ventilation is very wortwhile to consider ( budget 8-10K ) . avoid open fires and recessed lighting

3. heating equipment , storage and distribution specification . use top effecieny heat source equipment , insulate distribution and hot water storage tank well . use a zoned heating system - eg daytime spaces - rads zone 1 - nightime spaces - rads zone 2 - hot water - zone 3 . all timed and temp controlled separately

your architect ought to be able to advise on all aspects

he may or may not be able to issue a BER label - he must be SEI registered to do this . if he is not you really should appoint one separately to advise you and work with your architect .

you won't HAVE to have a BER lable untill you sell or rent the property - however the BER assessment is far better done now - when you can make informed decisions on your "3 legged stool "

..... there is a potential "fourth leg" - lighting . it can guzzle up a lot of power . HOWEVER - my own opinion is ( and i expect to be challenged on this ) is that the market is not supplying the requirement yet for attractive ( in terms of light quality ) bulbs and fittings . You may set of with good intentions of going low energy with the lighting but decide not to follow through when you see what this means . ....

clarebuild

sinnerboy wrote: »

BER ( building energy rating ) is a 3 legged stool -all are required together

Hello sinnerboy.

Thank you for taking the time to explain all that to me. It is generally what I had thought but to break it down into 3 points in extremely useful - so thanks!

We will tackle all three aspects immediately!

Thanks again sinnerboy:)

PS Do you mean people do not go for the low energy lighting because its expensive and in general unattractive. Does LED recessed lighting not address the unattractive aspect? Was planning on using it in alot of the house. What your opinion on LED?

sculptor

I think there is a website for calculating your carbon footprint.

sinnerboy

clarebuild wrote: »

PS Do you mean people do not go for the low energy lighting because its expensive and in general unattractive. Does LED recessed lighting not address the unattractive aspect? Was planning on using it in alot of the house. What your opinion on LED?

Yes . I don't think LED's look so good . BUT - try some out - replace 2 or 3 in your current place - see what you think yourself

ircoha

Clarebuilt:)
Recessed LED or CFL or Halogen lighting: or no recessed

the first question is whether to recess or not and the current thinking is not to recess at all.
Then u pick ur type of fitting.

U values.
Bear in mind that there will be new Part L regs in 2010 which will have even more onerous U value requirements so you might consider these now

If you explore the sei website you will find loads on U values

hogandrew

clarebuild wrote: »

sinnerboy wrote: »

BER ( building energy rating ) is a 3 legged stool -all are required together

Hello sinnerboy.

Thank you for taking the time to explain all that to me. It is generally what I had thought but to break it down into 3 points in extremely useful - so thanks!

We will tackle all three aspects immediately!

Thanks again sinnerboy:)

PS Do you mean people do not go for the low energy lighting because its expensive and in general unattractive. Does LED recessed lighting not address the unattractive aspect? Was planning on using it in alot of the house. What your opinion on LED?

Hi,

I am interested to no if you finally imported anything from china. I am currently building and have found marble at just over 20 euro per sqm in britain. wondering about the solid doors and skirting especially

thanks