New MA style- where to go from MT Kickboxing?

Kalakick

Hi all,

I have been training in Muay Thai for about 5 years. I recently attained my black level (which, unlike other styles apparently, you DO have to work for and is a biatch to get!), and now while I wish to continue MT (LOVE it) I'm looking at expanding my horizons in another style.

FYI I'm female, have never fought and have no compuction to do so in the future (in saying that I do train & spar with fighters). I'm looking for something that challenges my fitness, mind, discipline, flexibility etc etc. I have done basic BJJ courses in the past, which I thought was great fun, but I'm a little concerned that the fact that I'm female and have no desire to 'win' or compete might make the classes a little too intense for me (and also the fact that I'm wrestling with strange men all the time, is there any females that train in this here?)

I live in Christchurch (Dub 8) so fairly central too

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Dragan

Well if you have the standup down then a grappling art would always be a logial choice!

BJJ is awesome and i know quite a few of the clubs have female members. Barry (Roper here) definitely has and i don't know wether to give credit to her or to him but seeing how she has improved gives me massive faith in Barry as a coach. I'm sure he'll be along in a bit to give some advice!

If you would like to speak to the lass herself about her experiences in what can be a pretty male dominated training environment then just go to www.teamtestforum.com and give her a shout. Her name is Wasabi over there. She posts here under the same name but i think she only checks it out rarely.

Nothingcompares

Just as matter of interest what club were you training in that awarded you a black belt in Muay Thai? I wasn't aware there was a belt system in Thai, show's what I know! Was your club unusual in using belts?

I think the only clubs with a lot of girls in them are TKD clubs but I'm not sure if you'd enjoy making the move from Thai (full contact with leg kicks) to TKD (semi contact with no low kicks and other restrictions). However you might enjoy some of the more "flashy" kicks they practice and the patterns (robot dance routines).

If I was yourself and had a good background in Thai I'd only consider training in Wrestling, BJJ or Judo. Based on your location perhaps SBG is the closest gym to you on the longmileroad (www.sbgireland.com) which covers Wrestling and BJJ

My BJJ club has a fair few girls who train regularly and they get on fine, there's no pressure to compete, thats a personal choice (except for Dave Jones trying to force me to compete in May for the sole reason that im a bit "heavy"!! 65kg this morning Dave ) so Im sure you'll find that ok.


SBG on the Long Mile Road might be accessable for you given where u live. Talk to john kavanagh who posts here.

cowzerp

There is no belt system in Muay thai that i know of, if your club offer them then its probably a made up gimmick!

on topic, BJJ is great and worth a go, but there does seem to be more females taking part in judo, maybe this would be worth a look, both compliment each other so both could be an option..

Judomad

would you try Judo??
my club in swords has plenty of females training in it, plus plenty of light guys, and to get a black belt in Judo isnt easy like you said in yor OP, i also fought for my black belt, against others of any weight also going for there black belts(im 66kgs) fighting people who were 100+ kgs and also people closer to my weight, but as i said if you were willing to take a trip out to swords youd be welcome.

www.swordsjudo.com

Kalakick

cowzerp wrote: »

There is no belt system in Muay thai that i know of, if your club offer them then its probably a made up gimmick!

Whoa ok!! I'm new to Ireland (from Australia) so I don't know what kind of respect level I should be giving to people here- but, well, BACK OFF BUDDY I earn't that sh*t! I know its always good to say something contraversial on these things, but please respect the disciplines of other styles, as I would respect yours.

The style that I gained my level (and they're not belts, they're levels shown in coloured training singlets) is an Australian founded system, BJC Muay Thai, loads of clubs all over Australia have produced some great fighters too. Its a very formalised graded structure for MT, however unlike some of the 'lighter' martial arts it involves exceptionally difficult gradings. The next one up from mine involves 2x shadow sparring, 6x pads, and 20x 3minute full contact sparring rounds, and they're against other black belts or higher. Lets just say, if you're still standing at the end, you've passed!

Its a pity that there's no grading system in MT here, the grading process has really pushed my limits sky high and its such sense of accomplishment to get- you have to have the technique AND fitness AND heart (similar to a fight I guess but more endurance, and less of a 'train to compete' factor).

Actually now that I think about it, my cousin trained in Meath for a few years and she did grading levels, got to brown and then I think the club closed.

Dragan

Kalakick, i honestly wouldn't worry about it so much, have a look through a lot of the threads here and you will find a lot of "talk" between people from various styles, clubs etc.

It's never really meant in an ill natured way, just us Irish guys can be a bit blunt at times is all!

cowzerp

Kalakick wrote: »

I know its always good to say something contraversial on these things, but please respect the disciplines of other styles, as I would respect yours.

The style that I gained my level (and they're not belts, they're levels shown in coloured training singlets) is an Australian founded system, BJC Muay Thai, loads of clubs all over Australia have produced some great fighters too.

Take a chill pill love!!

i never said you did not earn your black status, but in muay thai, in Thailand there is no system like this, the point of the belts is more about making money as people love having status that they can tell others about, and the clubs can make money by grading students.
the best way to show how capable you are is by fighting against other fighters (not sparring)

muay thai is a Thai art and if its done any other way its not Muay thai but another version imo! that does not mean its not equally as good though.

Dragan wrote: »

It's never really meant in an ill natured way, just us Irish guys can be a bit blunt at times is all!

Thanks Dragan, i certainly mean no offence, this is tame on this board but its a great board as people tend to say it as they see it Kalakick which is only a good thing.

Khannie

As others have pointed out, Muay Thai has no belts. Nobody's taking anything away from your skill level by saying that.

In answer to your question: I'd say give BJJ or Judo a lash.

Kalakick wrote: »

The next one up from mine involves 2x shadow sparring, 6x pads, and 20x 3minute full contact sparring rounds, and they're against other black belts or higher. Lets just say, if you're still standing at the end, you've passed!

I'd imagine that requires some serious fitness alright.

edit:

Kalakick wrote: »

is there any females that train in this here?

There are some women who train MT in bridgestone alright. I've only been to 1 BJJ session (in ropers place) and there was at least one woman there (she posts on here too occasionally). I don't think too many women do BJJ though. I think there was a thread on this a while back.

Also, as Mairt said: Welcome to boards.ie and Ireland.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lads so far as I know there is a grading system in M.T. and the OP never said 'BLACK BELT' so get off her back. She said 'black level', whatever that is in M.T. I don't know, but I wouldn't cyber-kick her to death over it.

As for sparring -V- fighting for grades, its a personal opinion based only on my own experience but I think competition is worth a hundred sparring sessions.

OP, welcome to both this forum and Ireland (your Aussie right?).

I think the nearest club to you is Pinnacle where BJJ is on offer, Dragan could confirm this.

Khannie

Mairt wrote: »

Lads so far as I know there is a grading system in M.T.

Well....there are different levels of competition in Ireland:

Novice / Amateur and "C class" are all the same rules but C class has no pads - No elbows or knees to the head.

B Class allows knees to the head

A Class is full thai rules

but this system isn't something they'd use in Thailand. As far as I'm aware, it's full rules all the way there.

Other than differing levels of rules in competition, I'm not aware of any grading system. Paddy or Bridgestone man or RedRaven can clear it up I'm sure.

I trained with an Aussie lad in Thailand and he said they don't use the same "class" system there that we use here but he didn't mention anything about grading. OP: Is grading a common system in Australia?

ryoishin

We should be encouraging aussie chicks to come over!!!

I remember reading somewhere that the weapons system krabi krabong (sp?)has coloured arm raps or something.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Khannie like I said I'm not sure.

I thought M.T. fighters had a little band thingy on their left arm's denoting their 'grade?. And just done a quick google and it appear's that some M.T. governing bodies also wear a singlet to show a grade.

Either way, the OP shouldn't be getting tied down over stating she has an M.T. grade when all she's looking for is advice on moving into another style.

mickoo

Welcome to the board and to Ireland Kalakick,

In real muay thai there is no colour system, this is muay oz, a new colourful version of muay thai! only with taller people and more expensive training, I'm going to get onto my MMA coach and ask him to grade us for colours, why? because i want to be a black belt-HYYYYYYAH judo chop

arybvtcw0eolkf

mickoo wrote: »

In real muay thai there is no colour system, this is muay oz, a new colourful version of muay thai! only with taller people and more expensive training, I'm going to get onto my MMA coach and ask him to grade us for colours, why? because i want to be a black belt-HYYYYYYAH judo chop

I started in Judo with the aim of getting my Black Belt, was I wrong to do that?.

Khannie

Mairt wrote: »

Khannie like I said I'm not sure.

Me either. All I can say for certain is that there isn't a grading system where I train. edit: Except maybe "beginners class" and "fighters class". You need to progress somewhat to train at the fighters class level, but there's nothing formal about it.

Mairt wrote: »

Either way, the OP shouldn't be getting tied down over stating she has an M.T. grade when all she's looking for is advice on moving into another style.

Agreed. Apologies OP for helping to drag the thread off topic.

mickoo

Mairt wrote: »

I started in Judo with the aim of getting my Black Belt, was I wrong to do that?.

Belts are a big part of judo as it was meant to be in Japan, in thailand there is no belts so if there added in then its just as a way of making money, boxing, muay thai and mma have no belts and if someone decides to add them in will it be taken serious by me? NO. ps, did you get your black belt

Kalakick

Haha man you guys are intense!!

Ok, to answer a few questions- Khannie, no not all clubs follow this system, its really up to each to choose to do so. In saying that, those that don't have a grading system are more fight focussed, and those that do, while we have fighters, instruction is not based on the assumption that you intend to fight once good enough.

Over the years I have seen young guys come and go from the club because they get so 'into it', and once they've 'proved themselves' with a few pub-swing style amateur fights, they think they've done it all and leave, all within 12-18 months.

The whole reason I mentioned it in the first place was so that you could get an idea of my skill level, in that I actually have one. For us who don't compete, and therefore have no fight record, grading is the best indicator (apart from years training) of ability.

Thanks Mairt for the suggestion, there's no way I would have found Pinnacle googling!

If any of your are spending your friday afternoon like me doing nothing and randomly surfing the net (and, with the amount of replies, there seems to be a few!), you are more than welcome to check out the website of my old club- www.kalamundakickboxing.com.au - I made it myself!

arybvtcw0eolkf

mickoo wrote: »

ps, did you get your black belt

Not yet - but I'll get there.

I got a BB in kickboxing and if I'm to be honest with myself for about 18 months before I got it I'd lost interest in gaining it since so many people were getting it without ever competing for it.

I worked with a lad who fought Judo and who'd kept asking me along. One day I said 'feck it' and went - walked into the club and knew in an instant it was for me.

Then on hearing that after your green belt you've to fight for your belts it was like 'yea, defo for me'.

Anyway, I hope the OP hasn't been run off the forum by now.

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote: »

Take a chill pill love!!

i never said you did not earn your black status, but in muay thai, in Thailand there is no system like this, the point of the belts is more about making money as people love having status that they can tell others about, and the clubs can make money by grading students.
the best way to show how capable you are is by fighting against other fighters (not sparring)

muay thai is a Thai art and if its done any other way its not Muay thai but another version imo! that does not mean its not equally as good though.



Thanks Dragan, i certainly mean no offence, this is tame on this board but its a great board as people tend to say it as they see it Kalakick which is only a good thing.

Yes when I was in Thailand I specifically asked a Thai Kru about their attitude towards gradings and he told me that whilst there is no formalised grading structure, if u have competed and won in many many A-class fights (i.e-full contact rules with elbows etc) then u may get to wear a red armband to symbolise your status as an experienced practicioner.


However I know there are grading systems in various forms of kickboxing which could well have been inter twined with Thai to create a new martial arts system. I did find a website a while back advertising a Muay Thai club in the UK which did gradings, and when I looked into it, it turned out to be more of an adaptation of Muay-Thai.

RedRaven

No grades in Thailand...no grades with us in Bridgestone or any other club in the country and hopefully it stays that way.

The band on the arm is a good luck charm usually a small statue of budda or something like that.

Kalakick you should come to our show tomorrow night in the ride side club on south circular road, or maybe you could join us for a training session some day...you would be most welcome.

Charlie3dan

Kalakick wrote: »

Whoa ok!! I'm new to Ireland (from Australia) so I don't know what kind of respect level I should be giving to people here- but, well, BACK OFF BUDDY I earn't that sh*t! I know its always good to say something contraversial on these things, but please respect the disciplines of other styles, as I would respect yours.

To be fair, and this is irrespective of anything else that's gone on since the original post, you started by saying you're belt was more difficult to earn than other styles, so that's not a great place to start.


So, in your own words, "please respect the disciplines of other styles" as we will respect yours.



Now with that said, welcome.:)

Dragan

Kalakick wrote: »

Thanks Mairt for the suggestion, there's no way I would have found Pinnacle googling!

I am pretty biased but i love Pinnacle Gym! Philip runs a BJJ class there and while i haven't been able to go in a while ( but i got my doctor's clearance to start training again yesterday so after a few slowly easing myself back into things i can train properly again so.....DUNK I'm coming for you! please don't hurt me ) it is a fantastic class with a great environment and attitude!

If you drop up either Mick or Tony will be on the desk, tell them Aidan sent you up and you'll get a tour with no sales pitch and can make you own mind up! One or two of the regulars are also pretty reasonable at MT so you could maybe keep your training going with them as well!

Kalakick

Charlie3dan wrote: »

To be fair, and this is irrespective of anything else that's gone on since the original post, you started by saying you're belt was more difficult to earn than other styles, so that's not a great place to start.

True, but it is harder than other styles to get (I have read the posts on a similar topic here, so I know there's others who have been disappointed by an 'ease' of achievement!), so I'm not backing down off that claim.

HOWEVER, in saying that I know there are other styles that are even more difficult to obtain grades at- such as BJJ where it often takes 15+ years of training to achieve, and would make my grading look like a sweaty pub-brawl!

See here's the thing, what is hard for me, might look easy to someone else, and what's easy for me might look hard to another- its all a matter of perspective really isn't it?

RedRaven I actually came into your club to have a look at the training about a month ago, unfortunately at the time I wasn't living in dublin and it would have been too difficult to get to. Now I'm in the centre I'm starting to consider all my options!

RedRaven

Kool, well our door is open.

pearsquasher

You're welcome to check out the Bujinkan method at the new club up the road from you in the Liberties.

Contact me at bujinkanjiyu@live.ie

We have 2 new female members and a woman from another Bujinkan club comes down too for extra training.

Info at the link below.

PS. I've lived in Sydney for 6 months training with 2 very highly ranked female Bujinkan teachers twice a week. Tough as kangaroo hide!

phoenix-MT

Kalakick wrote: »

Whoa ok!! I'm new to Ireland (from Australia) so I don't know what kind of respect level I should be giving to people here

From a MT Background??.... well thats not the best comment to make on a martial arts forum is it? There is alot of respect and discipline in MT (and every other martial art) and it dissapoints me when i read or hear stuff like that. Wether i walked into a MT gym over here, or in Australia or Thailand, i would RESPECT every single member to the highest level.

Charlie3dan

Kalakick,


I'm not trying to get you to back down off your claim, I just think you started out with a very disrespectful and antagonistic post.

I wouldn't have said anything (because you are entitled to your opinion) but then you got all defensive when someone questioned your post and asked for the respect that you had not shown to other posters in your very first post. (again see the portion of text I already quoted)

I'm sure (I hope) it was not your intention to insult anyone and I don't want to jump on one comment and argue about it but as I say it was a bad start to your posting here.

Khannie

Kalakick wrote: »

Ok, to answer a few questions- Khannie, no not all clubs follow this system, its really up to each to choose to do so. In saying that, those that don't have a grading system are more fight focussed, and those that do, while we have fighters, instruction is not based on the assumption that you intend to fight once good enough.

Interesting. Thanks.

Kalakick wrote: »

pub-swing style amateur fights

HammerHeadGym

Internets. Serious Business.




Welcome to Ireland Kala. Let us know how you get on and which club you choose eventually.

Dragan

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Internets. Serious Business.

Exactly what i was thinking! "You bismirch my honour!"........ "Your style has no honour" and so forth and so on *cue bad lip synching and cool pyjama's*

Siamdragon

Well lads let me clear something up for you, Yes there is a grading in Muaythai, and yes it does exist in Ireland also, under the Irish Muaythai Council and it has been around for a long time it is there as a goal for people to reach to keep the standers high and for all those who wise to train Muaythai but not compete.
It is also there for those who wise to maybe someday become trainer them selves,
Just because some one may have had a few fights does not make them a qualified Muaythai instructor
Grading are there and levels set out by Thailand sports authorities and are also part of the World Muaythai Councils guidelines
Of which the Irish Muaythai Council set it standers, grading and levels are something that should not be pushed on anyone to do, but on the other hand if Students ask for them they should be available to them.
The Irish Muaythai Council is the only governing body for Muaythai in Ireland due to these and many other facts as it has the high standers in Muaythai
These benefits are there for all who choose to avail of them threw the Irish Council

Judomad

mickoo wrote: »

Welcome to the board and to Ireland Kalakick,

In real muay thai there is no colour system, this is muay oz, a new colourful version of muay thai! only with taller people and more expensive training, I'm going to get onto my MMA coach and ask him to grade us for colours, why? because i want to be a black belt-HYYYYYYAH judo chop

theres no such thing as a judo chop ya moron...

Dragan

Judomad wrote: »

theres no such thing as a judo chop ya moron...

Poorly written slap-stick comedy calls you a liar!!!!!

Judomad

Judomad wrote: »

theres no such thing as a judo chop ya moron...

Now i get it....after all this time!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Judomad wrote: »

theres no such thing as a judo chop ya moron...

Its a line from the movie 'Waynes World'.

Although not in this clip, its still a funny Martial Arts sketch from the same movie

Clive

Kalakick wrote: »

Hi all,

I have been training in Muay Thai for about 5 years. I recently attained my black level (which, unlike other styles apparently, you DO have to work for and is a biatch to get!), and now while I wish to continue MT (LOVE it) I'm looking at expanding my horizons in another style.

FYI I'm female, have never fought and have no compuction to do so in the future (in saying that I do train & spar with fighters). I'm looking for something that challenges my fitness, mind, discipline, flexibility etc etc. I have done basic BJJ courses in the past, which I thought was great fun, but I'm a little concerned that the fact that I'm female and have no desire to 'win' or compete might make the classes a little too intense for me (and also the fact that I'm wrestling with strange men all the time, is there any females that train in this here?)

I live in Christchurch (Dub 8) so fairly central too

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

http://www.sbgireland.com is right on the red luas line, has Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, submission wrestling, Mixed Martial Arts, Muay Thai and now Capoeira classes.

There are a few girls (although wrestling with strange men seem perfectly normal fairly quickly!) and the majority of people (male and female) don't initially have that much interest in competition either.

Roper

Dragan wrote: »

BJJ is awesome and i know quite a few of the clubs have female members. Barry (Roper here) definitely has and i don't know wether to give credit to her or to him but seeing how she has improved gives me massive faith in Barry as a coach. I'm sure he'll be along in a bit to give some advice!

If you would like to speak to the lass herself about her experiences in what can be a pretty male dominated training environment then just go to www.teamtestforum.com and give her a shout. Her name is Wasabi over there. She posts here under the same name but i think she only checks it out rarely.

Since I've been mentioned by name I'd better respond!

In my opinion, one of the main reasons why more girls don't grapple is because more girls don't grapple.

There's a couple of girls in my gym alright and while I'm sure there's some discomfort initially, it doesn't seem to last and it doesn't seem to effect how skill improves. In fact, I have 2 girls who grapple in mine and they would be two of the fastest improvers.

You're only a tram ride from SBG. There's one of only 2 female purple belts and a blue belt there. If anyone can give you advice on how to be a female grappler it's them.

conor rowan

hey

i think theres a female bjj coach who posts on here, meaveD i think.
dont know her personally but she might be worth contacting as she could give you an inisght into how she finds bjj as a woman.

not definite on this one so wont take any offence if anyone corrects me.

anyway welcome to boards and all the ****e that goes with it!:D
conor

crokester

Ive been training in OZ a while now and ive yet to hear of serious MT club who does gradings.