Legal downgrading solutions

JohnReisman

I have seen a couple of posts recently asking can an aeg be imported and downgraded. And the fact of the matter is if the aeg at the point of manufacture fires at over the 1J then the answer is very simple no. But that is ruling out a lot of aegs from a lot of overseas companies.

Has anyone considered contacting the bigger retailers and saying to them 'The market for all of Ireland could be opened up to you for every aeg you sell IF you can provide a certified downgrade service at point of dispatch' ??

Depending on how much the retailers chose to invest they could just swap every spring and put in a nice safe 0.75J. Then the Irish airsofter could spend a small amount (the more a service is needed the cheaper it should become) bringing the energy level to just below the joule.

Puding

that is what a number of retailers do already

ED E

Gunner Just advertised that he is now doing just that again.

Meanwhile, RSOV is soo busy he cant take orders on wednesdays!

kdouglas

The supplier's in Asia aren't going to bother going to the hassle of producing an entiely seperate line of stuff which is <1J if the majority of their lines are above this already. Some of the suppliers will do batches of them for a retailer, which is what retailers here do already, but as we know from past experience, this can be hit and miss.

If you're buying direct from a retailer, some of them will do a downgrade for an extra fee, this is the best your going to get at the moment if your buying outside of Ireland.

TheDoc

i think what is being touched on in a couple of posts is kinda sensitive.

most of the people who have opened airsoft stores seem to be from the community, and also seem to be respected and everyone wishing them luck.

Fact of the matter is that airsoft rifles are ALOT cheaper abroad, especially america, and this isonly going to increase with the dollar looking at going to nearly 1.70

I've being an online shopper for a very very very long time, so much to say sometimes i even speculate on exchange rates to see what i can save money on.

Theres no denying the fact that items from america are cheaper, even after shipping, by a large total.

Simply refer to the pistol i was buying off ehobby asia, coming to 30 euro incl shipping, im now having to buy of eirsoft for 75, the exact same pistol.

Now the points being explained plenty as to why irish stores have to charge what they charge.

I know im new to here and i dont want to step on toes, but its bound to be on peoples minds, its fortunate and unfortunate that our irish stores owners post actively here, but the simple fact is they are available abroad cheaper.

now why we all have gripes with the ems situation, no doubt the irish stores are rubbing their hands, our business is quickly going to turn to them, along with our wallets.

What could happen and i would hate to see happen is a monopoly type market in airsoft, as it is an expensive hobby to engage in already, should foreign companies be blocked from us there is nothing stopping our home grown stores going overboard on price.

no matter how they say they want to help sport etc etc these guys go into business to make money, its business, anyone who goes into the arena without that notion at the forefront, risk losing their investment.

now i have been doing my irish airsoft dealings with eirsoft, ive received amazing customer service and ive recieved good pricing and a tremendous amount of high quality service from tony.

But should foreign markets be shut off from us, we will be left at the mercy of the irish stores, and nothing will stop them incresasing prcies, lets not forget it may be an extra cost for them too to get the goods in.

I'm not sour about it, business is business, im a logical guy, borderline shrewd and i know how id be planning my business scheme now after recent events.

i think it is paramount that foriegn and oversea companies in airsoft are made available to irish consumers, to keep things competitive and make sure our irish retailers are kept competitively priced.

i dont wanna start a row, its a topic of interesting discussion and lets keep it that way.

I'm not taking pops, its an observation, that is backed up by years of experience, and watching how online markets make irish stores more competivly priced...you just have to look at golf....dvds....music.

this however does leave an opening for one of the irish business' to make a killing.

if we are blocked from buying abroad, we have to buy here. One store owner might get it into his head that a drop in prices below competitors might grab them the customer heat...for a while, until the rest drop too.
if this happens we can be happy as we will see lower prices and higher competiveness.

although it takes a few phone calls between the owners to agree to keep prices equal, and we have a cartel.

i await to see what happens intriguingly

horgan_p

we do it , just today i was told that 4 aegs were being delayed by 3 days because they had chronoed over the joule at the suppliers. we made it a REQUIREMENT for our suppliers to do business with us that they respring for free.

the aegs were :
a black SCAR
an FN 2000
an ak74 (real wood)
and a mauser kar98k


its a bitch , but rules is rules.

JohnReisman

I posted on an area I am not very au fait with. And the background to my current sudden increase in knowledge is that I always try to buy Irish. I much prefer walking into a shop to buy my consumer goods. It’s a habit I got into when buying top end cameras and I’m not likely to change it soon. I’ve lost count the amount of times people have asked for my opinion in relation to camera problems, and I have had to tell them the painful truth. That being they could have bought it cheaper in Ireland than shipping to where it was bought to be repaired under warranty or shipping it to somewhere else like the UK. In other words any cheaper price tag for an item outside Ireland is a gamble, plain and simple. All of my ‘hardware’ (aegs and pistols) have been bought off an Irish retailer. My radio was sourced from the UK on ebay which was less than half the retail prices in Dublin (Dont get me started on extortionate radio equipment prices in Dublin). My first set of acu was bought from Flecktarn.co.uk and my second set was bought while I was on holidays in the U.S. This was 9 months ago. And some of the Irish retailers are only just now getting in the brand I bought in the U.S. I think airsoft in Ireland should be supported by buying in Ireland where possible. Because we will all get out what we put in.

Final point: I do empathize with those who may have budgetary constraints that mean every euro less can act as decision maker. Please dont believe otherwise.

Puding

Another area is that Irish airsoft stores at this moment in time have a relatively small number of products, and a lot of stuff you can simple not get within Ireland from simple replacement parts to complete lines

JohnReisman

Exactly. Thats why 'where possible' was in italics on my prev post.

Puding

i buy pretty much all my airsoft related goods from abroad and have never had any real problems, i find there is a lot of scare mongering in regard to buying abroad but that another topic and this had all got a bit off topic

Shiva

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

But should foreign markets be shut off from us, we will be left at the mercy of the irish stores, and nothing will stop them incresasing prcies, lets not forget it may be an extra cost for them too to get the goods in.

......

although it takes a few phone calls between the owners to agree to keep prices equal, and we have a cartel.

I don't see that happening at the moment, to be honest. Although it could have conceivably been an issue when there was just me and MIA, there's too many of us now. (Not that it would have happened, mind you )

We have 4 full time bricks and mortar retailers, three of which have an online presence (with another to come soon apparently), and another 3 online retailers, one of whom retails at a skirmish site. Add to that a couple of sites who also buy kit at wholesale prices and sell to their regulars, and you have far too much competition for a cartel to emerge. In fact, I think it may be too much competition for the market to bear in the long term. We're still a very, very small hobby in the grand scheme of things, despite our recent upsurge in popularity - there are only so many skirmishers to buy our wares.

I think the only benefit this EMS thing will have for Irish retailers is that yes, you may find it cheaper to buy from us, but in the medium to long term, that will benefit you, the consumer, because it will stimulate competition. None of the retailers use EMS to ship their goods, because we aren't consumers - with the quantities we buy, we have to use other means - so it wont affect our prices.

Puding

Looking at things like cybergun and issues with other retailers the airsoft community normally pulls together and does not react kindly to any like a cartel, i've never come across much difference between ems and company's like ems to be honest ems was normally a bit more.

kevteljeur

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

i think what is being touched on in a couple of posts is kinda sensitive.

most of the people who have opened airsoft stores seem to be from the community, and also seem to be respected and everyone wishing them luck.

Fact of the matter is that airsoft rifles are ALOT cheaper abroad, especially america, and this isonly going to increase with the dollar looking at going to nearly 1.70

I've being an online shopper for a very very very long time, so much to say sometimes i even speculate on exchange rates to see what i can save money on.

Theres no denying the fact that items from america are cheaper, even after shipping, by a large total.

Simply refer to the pistol i was buying off ehobby asia, coming to 30 euro incl shipping, im now having to buy of eirsoft for 75, the exact same pistol.

Now the points being explained plenty as to why irish stores have to charge what they charge.

I know im new to here and i dont want to step on toes, but its bound to be on peoples minds, its fortunate and unfortunate that our irish stores owners post actively here, but the simple fact is they are available abroad cheaper.

now why we all have gripes with the ems situation, no doubt the irish stores are rubbing their hands, our business is quickly going to turn to them, along with our wallets.

What could happen and i would hate to see happen is a monopoly type market in airsoft, as it is an expensive hobby to engage in already, should foreign companies be blocked from us there is nothing stopping our home grown stores going overboard on price.

no matter how they say they want to help sport etc etc these guys go into business to make money, its business, anyone who goes into the arena without that notion at the forefront, risk losing their investment.

now i have been doing my irish airsoft dealings with eirsoft, ive received amazing customer service and ive recieved good pricing and a tremendous amount of high quality service from tony.

But should foreign markets be shut off from us, we will be left at the mercy of the irish stores, and nothing will stop them incresasing prcies, lets not forget it may be an extra cost for them too to get the goods in.

I'm not sour about it, business is business, im a logical guy, borderline shrewd and i know how id be planning my business scheme now after recent events.

i think it is paramount that foriegn and oversea companies in airsoft are made available to irish consumers, to keep things competitive and make sure our irish retailers are kept competitively priced.

i dont wanna start a row, its a topic of interesting discussion and lets keep it that way.

I'm not taking pops, its an observation, that is backed up by years of experience, and watching how online markets make irish stores more competivly priced...you just have to look at golf....dvds....music.

this however does leave an opening for one of the irish business' to make a killing.

if we are blocked from buying abroad, we have to buy here. One store owner might get it into his head that a drop in prices below competitors might grab them the customer heat...for a while, until the rest drop too.
if this happens we can be happy as we will see lower prices and higher competiveness.

although it takes a few phone calls between the owners to agree to keep prices equal, and we have a cartel.

i await to see what happens intriguingly

Go easy, I know where you're coming from and I'm not adverse to buying abroad where it suits me, but a couple of statements you've made are potentially quite inflammatory; you're referring to an illegal arrangement between retailers (something that I've seen mentioned here before in a different context). Some retailers here are also suppliers to other retailers, which is quite common in niche markets in Ireland. It has a range of consequences which you may not be aware of when shopping for specific items in Ireland.

For certain items, I'd be happy to buy abroad. Other items I'd want to buy from a retailer here not out of any sense of propping up the market here, but because for example to have what I buy be under 1J and to have after-sales support. A retailer here has overheads, and Ireland isn't a cheap country in which to do business, so buying local is going to cost more for anything you buy (I know, I'm preaching to choir here).

As for overseas Airsoft companies 'being made available' to Irish airsofters, I think you should clarify what you mean. You're implying that someone, or some group, is trying to prevent overseas Airsoft retailers selling to Irish customers. We're a small market on an island, and it's easy for the supply chain to run into difficulties somewhere; I can remember when Amazon was rethinking shipping anything of value to Ireland because they couldn't guarantee that An Post would actually deliver the items correctly, registered post or not...

TheDoc

i not implying anything or suggesting anything

believe me, me and my dad have been around the block and watched various industries and companies change way because of online competition, wether it dwindling away or becoming a powerhouse.

mcguirks golf had to create a whole new approach to golf merchandise with the arrival of ebay. you may notice alot of golf shops, independant ones, shutting down.

alot of independant cd and dvd stores, closing down, video rental stores, selling more then they rent.

i wasnt implying anything or making inflamatory suggestions, its happened before, it could happen again, and with airsoft slowly but stadily taking off, theres gna be drop outs and succeding businesses.

i think its jsut worthwhile just to point out certain issues that will one day arise, possibly arise etc etc

with over 15 oil companies in ireland, who thought they could form a cartel...

the same with two major rivals, superquinn and dunnes stores, but hey happens.

its just a discussion, nothing nasty, just a discussion, ive been dealing with tony from eirsoft regarding my airsoft purchases and he has been an oustanding help, really has no ass licking.

But if i can get stuff cheaper through ebay for example id do it, im that kind of guy, not a cheap ass, but like mentioned above for some people every euro counts

and someone like me who has really gotten into this sport recently, who likes the peeps, likes the equipment, wants to skirmish..

its hard to afford or even consider paying big bucks for weaponry...that is much cheaper somewhere else.

then again its a new venture in ireland really, and im sure in time we will see these stores grow...and grow..and hopefully be selling so well, they can afford cuts.

but there has to be peeps like me out there, who can only weigh up buying clones, TM's go out of the window for someone like me

JohnReisman

Lads, this is heading to somewhere a bit different to where I had hoped



I was just trying to open a door to a conversation to where many people thinking out loud would lead to new ideas of how the sport can develop on as many levels as possible including retail.

kevteljeur

Sorry man, my apologies. I know it wasn't what your originally meant at all.

o1s1n

JohnReisman wrote: »

Lads, this is heading to somewhere a bit different to where I had hoped

Indeed. [DM]-TheDOC-'s post was an interesting read but it really flung the thread off topic.

Back on track please.

o1s1n

Thread locked at OPs request.