Me Too - 'Putting It Together' Questions

Fnz

I'm going to ere on the side of caution when putting my PC together so please bear with me if I start dragging people down to the minutia of every step.

First up, here's a list of my components:

> 4096MB-Kit OCZ PC2-6400 ReaperX HPC Enhanced Bandwidth, CL4
> Arctic Silver V (Wlp.) Wärmeleitpaste 1ml
> ATX-Netzteil Corsair 620W 620 Watt
> Coolermaster Dominator Xcalade (CM690) ohne Netzteil schwarz
> Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE (bulk) - 30SB057000000
> Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L ,Intel P35, ATX, PCI-Express
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 boxed, 8192Kb, LGA775, 64bit, Kentsfield
> MSI N9800GTX-M2D512, 512MB, GDDR3, PCI-Express
> Samsung HD753LJ 750GB S-ATA II, 32MB Cache
> Samsung SH-S203D bulk schwarz
> Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Sockel 939/AM2,775

.... and some questions:

Isopropyl alcohol? - It is recommended on the Arctic Silver site that I clean the CPU heat spreader before applying the thermal paste. Would I find some Isopropyl alcohol in pharmacies?

Also, I had thought that it was best to evenly spread the thermal paste over the raised surface of the CPU... but according to the Arctic Silver site:

After you apply the line
of Arctic Silver 5 do NOT spread the line out
yourself. When you place the heatsink on top of
the heatspreader of the CPU the line of Arctic
Silver 5 will spread out just like an oval pancake.
This is done this way to insure proper coverage of
the heatspreader and a good minimum bond line
between the two surfaces.

[Link]


Does it actually matter a jot which way it's done?

SwampThing

I'd spread the paste, personally. I think most people here would suggest the same. This is probably the latest 'solution' to ill machined or ill fitting cpu coolers. The paste will spread to whatever thickness is required to fill the gap, but I'd guess that doesn't guarantee surface area coverage.

Long winded way of saying, in my opinion, spread it baby!

L31mr0d

In short, it rarely matters. I always just put a line of AS5 down the middle and leave it at that, I used to spread it out but found it made no perceivable difference in temps. Depending on which method a person swears by though they will tell you the temps are better. Go with whatever method helps you to sleep at night.

For me I just use a simple line of AS5, in saying that I also have to lap every heatsink I get to a mirror finish

Also, for cleaning the surface, i'd recommend ArctiClean 2 step process with lint free cloth, it will last you for ages (i'm still using the same 2 small bottles I bought 2 years ago). You'll have a hard time finding pure Isopropyl alcohol also, most people in Ireland who don't use Articlean end up using Acetone, but even that is hard to find without additives like perfume added.

Have you ordered the parts already?

Fnz

Arctic Silver's reasoning behind doing the straight line application is that the line (when aligned the correct way) corresponds with the location of the cores beneath the heat spreader.

L31mr0d wrote: »

For me I just use a simple line of AS5, in saying that I also have to lap every heatsink I get to a mirror finish

Yeah I've seen one of your lapping logs - you'd probably hate the base of the cooler I went for... with all its grooves:



I'm thinking I may need to apply more thermal paste than normal, due to them little gaps.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Also, for cleaning the surface, i'd recommend ArctiClean 2 step process with lint free cloth

Do you know anywhere I can get the ArctiClean in bricks and mortar store? Everything but my chassis arrived from hardwareversand today. I'm hoping the case will be here tomorrow. The plan atm is to try Maplins, to see if they stock this (100% pure?) isopropyl alcohol in their Irish branches.

Deliverance XXV

I got a bottle of Isopropyl in a local chemists for under a fiver. I use it after I remove used thermal compound and it cleans it perfectly. There's some stuff up in Maplin that will do the same job but expect to pay extra.

PogMoThoin

Get some acetone in the chemist for cleaning.

I always use the line method in the pic and twist the cooler a few times, I've tried several different methods and found this gives the best method.

Fnz

King Nothing wrote: »

I got a bottle of Isopropyl in a local chemists for under a fiver. I use it after I remove used thermal compound and it cleans it perfectly. There's some stuff up in Maplin that will do the same job but expect to pay extra.

Cheers, will check out chemists on the way the Maplins. Failing being able to get ArctiClean I'll probably go with whichever is purer. I'd imagine less water content is worth paying a little more for.

TerrorFirmer

If you're stuck, white spirit will do. It's what I always use; in the past I've even used Vodka and Aldi aftershave...no problems. Lint free cloth though!

Fnz

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

If you're stuck, white spirit will do. It's what I always use; in the past I've even used Vodka and Aldi aftershave...no problems. Lint free cloth though!

Euagh... petroleum based cleaning.... unclean!... keep away

I was hoping to use the white spirits I have in the shed but heard it was a bad idea.

BTW the surfaces I'm looking to "clean" aren't 'dirty'. The processor and cooler are both new, with no previous thermal grease build-up. I'm just doing this cleaning step because the Arctic Silver instructions recommend it - it is generally recommended, even for new 'clean' surfaces, right?

TerrorFirmer

I doubt it'll make any real noticeable difference to be honest. Maybe someone else will correct me, as I've never cleaned anything straight out of the box...

PogMoThoin

What thickness is a fingerprint? At least wipe everything, even if new

Fnz

tomshardware.co.uk wrote:

Electrostatic Discharge

... The most basic precaution is to occasionally touch a ground, such as a large metal office desk or the metal case of a plugged-in system, to discharge your body.

Yikes, I didn't know you were supposed to leave the system plugged-in to discharge yourself off it. All this time, with my old PC, I had been unplugging it before messing around inside.

Is it ok to have the PSU switched off?

SwampThing

Yeah, you can power off the PSU - what you're using is the ground or earth pin in the plug/socket to discharge any static through. The ground is always connected once it's plugged in.

Fnz

My PC case did arrive yesterday. Also I got some ArctiClean 2 step stuff in Peats. :cool:

Anyway, though I reckon the odds of damage are probably minuscule if I'm remotely careful - I'd like to get (hopefully informed) opinions and advise when it comes to avoiding static damage.


From Cnet forum:

ALWAYS pull the power plug first!!!!!!!! You MUST remove ALL power from the system before doing any work inside the case. No, you won't get shocked, but all modern computers have power applied to the motherboard unless the plug is pulled! You probably will fry something if power is applied.

From PC World site:

Since all standard AC wiring includes a common ground, you used to be able to ground yourself by touching the case of your PC while it was switched off but still plugged into the wall outlet. However, since today's PCs have voltage flowing through their motherboards whenever they're plugged in (5 volts direct current are used for switching the PC on and off), it's all too easy to accidentally short something and zap your motherboard, without static being involved at all. That's why it's essential that PCs be unplugged when you work with them.

What to do? Half the sources I've checked out recommend using a non-plugged-in PC chassis to ground yourself. Some say that will lead to the chassis getting increasingly "charged". The other half say it must be plugged in (with the PSU switched off) to complete the earth or whatever. Clearly there are a lot of mis-informed people out there.

I was going to say maybe I should have bought an anti-static wrist strap in town yesterday - but then... do I connect it to a plugged-in or plugged-out chassis?

I'm sure that people here have successfully built systems whilst dragging their feet over carpet the whole time (and bully for you) - but I'd like to hear what is actual best practice.

How does the following method sound: Connect PSU to my 4-way surge protector which is in turn connected to the wall outlet. Then switching off the power switch on the surge protector.

EDIT - actually, I guess I won't have the motherboard connected to the PSU for most the building process but still, what's the best way to avoid frying components?

Deliverance XXV

I was always under the assumption that you are only grounded when the computer is plugged in but the power supply is turned off?
How can there be power to the motherboard when the PSU is turned off? **
Perhaps there is an electrician or otherwise on boards who could enlighten us all?






** Not responsible for any deaths, shocks or otherwise herein :pac:

Fnz

Since I can't find a straight answer on ESD protection best practice - this seems to be the best advice I've found thus far:

From pccomputernotes.com:

There are two schools of thought on this subject:
One is to leave your computer plugged in. Any static buildup is discharged along your wrist strap to the computer's case, then through the power cord into the ground receptacle of your electrical outlet.
The second is to unplug your computer. With the wrist strap attached, this should put you and your computer at the same potential charge and no transfer of electrons should take place.
This becomes a decision you have to make for yourself. A lot of books will suggest that the computer remain plugged in, and in fact, the A+ Certification exam considers this the correct choice at this time (which is probably why these books suggest it). However, when you leave the computer plugged in, it’s a little too easy to turn it on when you’re working inside; or forget it’s on and plug in an expansion card or drop a screw onto the motherboard. Also, you have full AC power going to the remote power switch on the front of your computer. If there is a bared wire, or open contacts on the back of the switch, you could get quite a shock. Remember too, that today’s ATX motherboards have power to them even when the switch is off.

A very good alternative is to plug your wrist strap right into the ground receptacle of a wall socket, or into a grounded antistatic mat.

If you find yourself in a situation where you don’t have a grounding mat or anti-static wrist strap, then you should keep one hand on a bare, unpainted portion of the chassis as you’re working inside the case. This method is not that reliable and you’ll soon find it to be a little awkward.

[Link]

L31mr0d

ESD is less common then you'd think. Modern PCBs are very hardy and less susceptible to damage.

I've got a bachelors degree in electronic engineering and never use a static strap, never touch the case and never have the psu plugged in. In saying that I do use best practices when working with PCBs (i.e. always hold them by the edges, avoid touching the chips/pins directly...etc) I used to know a guy in college who would just carry around the ICs he needed for lab in his pocket and then just scoop them out, straighten the pins then install them in his breadboard, he never had one failure (apart from the time we ramped up his DC supply to 30v before he attached the crocodile clips... popping IC's is something special to behold )

Also in regard to the grooves on the bottom of your HSF the accepted procedure to use when dealing with a base that has either scratchs or pits in it is to put some TIM on it and rub it in (a finger in a plastic bag works well) then when you're finished, remove the excess TIM with a lint free cloth, leaving the surface "smudgy" in appearance, this will ensure any cracks and pits get filled with TIM removing any tiny air pockets.

Also Pogs recommendation of twisting the HSF is recommended, this will also help to remove any air pockets that might of occured when the TIM spread out from being a line.

Fnz

L31mr0d wrote: »

ESD is less common then you'd think.

I always figured that the chance of immediate component failure due to ESD was minimal - just wanted to do all that I could to prevent it. Even though the PC may work fine after an ESD, the interwebs say that the damage may not always be immediately apparent - one of your components' life span may be cut short, possibly (but unconfirmably) due to an ESD it received some time ago.

I had fashioned my own earthing strap using a plug with a single cable coming from the earth pin. I also had another length of cable going from the copper pipe on a radiator. Still I wussed-out and picked up an anti static wrist strap from Maplins when the home-made solutions failed my static-dissipating ability test* (firstly I created enough static to hold some plastic wrapping in place on the back of my hand; I then tried to make it loose its 'static grip' by making contact with my earthing cable).

Is my logic borked?

L31mr0d wrote: »

Also in regard to the grooves on the bottom of your HSF the accepted procedure to use when dealing with a base that has either scratchs or pits in it is to put some TIM on it and rub it in (a finger in a plastic bag works well) then when you're finished, remove the excess TIM with a lint free cloth, leaving the surface "smudgy" in appearance, this will ensure any cracks and pits get filled with TIM removing any tiny air pockets.

Cheers for the tips but the cooler is already on the motherboard. I really thought the board was going to snap as I tried to get those damn Intel push pins in the first time. I don't want to go through that again unless I've applied the TIM incorrectly.

I used that Arcticlean 2 step solution - applied with a Q-tip and removed with a Q-tip and lint free cloth. The lint free cloth would keep getting snagged due to the roughness of parts of the base - t'was a right pain in the hole. I was worried because, to my mind, any bits that snagged and came off the cloth/Q-tip I'd consider lint. Hopefully I didn't end up doing more harm than good by cleaning the base of the cooler.

I put a single line of TIM on the CPU as per previous image. Also put a really thin line along the cooler's two outer copper pipes before setting it into the motherboard. I probably should have put a thin line of paste on the centre copper pipe too as I ended up orienting the cooler 90º to what I originally planned - so the TIM has spread out from a 'H' shape with only a small amount on the centre pipe.

I didn't think about filling in the channels - just about the contact between the copper and CPU. I did twist the cooler slightly, as recommended.


Tomorrow, I'll wire everything up and buy a 2-prong to 3-prong adapter for the hardwareversand power supply. I assume any common adapter will do - no need to give Monster Cable™ €50 for one that stops Martians degrading electrical throughput?

zilog_jones

There seems to be an awful lot of misinformation regarding PCs and ESD. For example:

Fnz wrote: »

Also, you have full AC power going to the remote power switch on the front of your computer. If there is a bared wire, or open contacts on the back of the switch, you could get quite a shock.

This is only relevant to old AT power supplies. With ATX designs (i.e. most things made after about '96!) there is no mains power outside of the power supply, and the only power in a PC while "off" is a harmless 5V DC. The problem is this is always present on the motherboard while the PSU is powered on, as the power is software controlled.

I don't know what's best regarding leaving plugged in while turning off mains power, or unplugging. Of course the former is hard to do when you haven't the PSU installed! I've never used an anti-static strap at home while doing stuff and I have yet to kill anything. I usually hold onto a bare metal part of the case though.

Fnz

zilog_jones wrote: »

With ATX designs (i.e. most things made after about '96!) there is no mains power outside of the power supply, and the only power in a PC while "off" is a harmless 5V DC. The problem is this is always present on the motherboard while the PSU is powered on, as the power is software controlled.

Thanks. I don't enough about these thing to be taking chances. I ended up not plugging the PSU into the mains.

I still havent connected up the insides... will do tomorrow.