Gulf in class of provinces

escobar

With Leinster most probably about to win the Magners League and Munster as runners up and at least making it to the HC final...
I wonder what has happened to Connacht and Ulster.
Ulster I hope will improve next year...probably temporary form... Matt Williams is a good coach and given some time over the summer should be able to make an impact although he'll be under scrutiny.They did win two years ago .
What can be done for connacht though. Perhaps players like Bob Casey could be brought home to strenghten the team.... Or they could be given fringe players like Gary Brown. I thought they would improve this year. With the IRFU's coffers overflowing at the moment it would be a good time to invest in all the provinces...

Tim Robbins

escobar wrote: »

With Leinster most probably about to win the Magners League and Munster as runners up and at least making it to the HC final...
I wonder what has happened to Connacht and Ulster.
Ulster I hope will improve next year...probably temporary form... Matt Williams is a good coach and given some time over the summer should be able to make an impact although he'll be under scrutiny.They did win two years ago .
What can be done for connacht though. Perhaps players like Bob Casey could be brought home to strenghten the team.... Or they could be given fringe players like Gary Brown. I thought they would improve this year. With the IRFU's coffers overflowing at the moment it would be a good time to invest in all the provinces...

The likes of Kieran Lewis, Barry Murphy, Keith Earls should go to Connaught or Ulster.

Phaetonman

Ulster have had a bad season after winning the Magners league two years ago. Connact have been as good as they've ever been and can match the best of teams in Galway. South Africa, Leinster and Munster were all fairly close games.
I wouldn't be too worried.

escobar

Phaetonman wrote: »

Ulster have had a bad season after winning the Magners league two years ago. Connact have been as good as they've ever been and can match the best of teams in Galway. South Africa, Leinster and Munster were all fairly close games.
I wouldn't be too worried.

I do think it can be fixed but especially in Connachts case they continously finish low on the league table. With Johnny O connor there this year I expected more. They have a better squad now. Connacht played reallly well against all the provinces this year. They just didn't seem to have the cutting edge to finish the game off...I think if they got in a few select players the near misses could turn into wins.

zAbbo

Connacht are horribly hamstrung when it comes to signing players, the fact that there's an exodus in Ulster this summer might mean that next year Connacht could step up.

But don't expect the IRFU to do any favours.

Danger_Dave

escobar wrote: »

Perhaps players like Bob Casey could be brought home to strenghten the team

To mention someone as good as bob casey as a possible player for Connacht is ridiculous, The guy is one of the best Second Row's in europe, he should have been at least in the irish squad for the last few years.Also the man is Captain of London irish and has just signed a new deal with them. Forget Connacht Bring him back to Leinster. London irish have had the best Lineout in the GP for over 4 years because of him and Nick Kennedy.




P.S Connacht never do anything and never will, theres not the same player base and the irfu refuse to increase funding. Its a real shame because i always like to see them win and id love to see them in the HC.

dc69

young players like keith earls and Jonathan sexton etc,should be sent to connaught to develop and strenghten their backline,this would cure the problem and develop some good players.

question is,how do you get them to go ,incentives?

they still have college etc and many wont want to go.

Podge_irl

Danger_Dave wrote: »

Bring him back to Leinster. London irish have had the best Lineout in the GP for over 4 years because of him and Nick Kennedy.

Think they tried but he wanted to stay put.

Tbh, I think a large part of Connacht's problems are that Bradley is a ****ing awful coach. He should be doing much better with the squad he has available (not saying they should be contenders for the title or anything, but certainly better). They are clearly hamstrung somewhat by finances and ability to buy players etc. but they have almost regressed of late despite their squad improving.

Ulster are just in a bad patch, they will no doubt improve.

Podge_irl

dc69 wrote: »

young players like keith earls and Jonathan sexton etc,should be sent to connaught to develop and strenghten their backline,this would cure the problem and develop some good players.

Earls yes, but I certainly wouldn't move Sexton, he's far better off where he is.

Anyway, you can't force players to just move. Many of them will have other reasons to stay put and wait for the chance or just remain a squad player where they are. But Connacht should be utilised more for young players where possible. I'm sure Connacht fans don't want their team being used as a nursery either though.

dc69

Podge_irl wrote: »

. I'm sure Connacht fans don't want their team being used as a nursery either though.

they might actually get somewhere if they were used as a nursery.realistically you need a bit of success,before good players will go to you.its a catch 22.

so you have to send some very talented youngsters down there,to help them.

I doubt they would be complaining if felix jones and keith earls went there for next season.

Podge_irl

dc69 wrote: »

I doubt they would be complaining if felix jones and keith earls went there for next season.

I doubt it, but they also (rightly) wouldn't be happy if they then left in two years time to be replaced by two new inexperienced players. They wouldn't end up much, if any, more successful then they are now if they had a revolving door squad.

escobar

dc69 wrote: »

they might actually get somewhere if they were used as a nursery.realistically you need a bit of success,before good players will go to you.its a catch 22.

so you have to send some very talented youngsters down there,to help them.

I doubt they would be complaining if felix jones and keith earls went there for next season.

Im agree. If Connacht can't supply the players themselves they'll have to look elsewhere. There are some provincial fringe players that could develop and stay there. Their finances would need to be looked at though. Sucess would breed interest and player numbers in the province. Could only be good for them...

dc69

Podge_irl wrote: »

I doubt it, but they also (rightly) wouldn't be happy if they then left in two years time to be replaced by two new inexperienced players. They wouldn't end up much, if any, more successful then they are now if they had a revolving door squad.

yeah but if say earls and jones did well for them and a few others went aswell,they might do well in the challenge cup etc and better the magners league place,this would assist them in geting new players from overseas.

it would only take about 3 years of this and then they would be attractive enough for overseas players and then they can only go up.

at the moment what overseas player wants to go to a bottom club,if they were a mid table and doing well in the challenge cup,it would be a different story.

there are alot of rugby supporters in conaught and I feel sorry for them,they dont deserve to have a bottom club,they deserve a top club.I gaurantee if they started doing well,their supporters would come back and support,at the moment im sure there are loads who just wont go to games and I dont blame them.

As far as conundrums go in sporting teams,this is probably the easiest problem in the world.

step 1-get young talent and improve success eg mid table magners league and at least 1 round further in challenge cup.

step 2-buy imports and develop young talent properly

step 3-continue success year by year and then big players will want to come,it would take about 5 years in total.but reasonable success would come much sooner.

all through this,supporter numbers rise 50% from begining of transformation project.

Also im sure their are AIL players that would be delighted to get paid to play rugby,send some of the best to add to their numbers,there has to be a few gems in the AIL.

dub_skav

Podge_irl wrote: »

Think they tried but he wanted to stay put.

Tbh, I think a large part of Connacht's problems are that Bradley is a ****ing awful coach. He should be doing much better with the squad he has available (not saying they should be contenders for the title or anything, but certainly better). They are clearly hamstrung somewhat by finances and ability to buy players etc. but they have almost regressed of late despite their squad improving.

Ulster are just in a bad patch, they will no doubt improve.

Their squad has improved but so has everybody else's. Ulster brought in some new players, Munster some Kiwis and Leinster a much needed South African. Connacht are becoming more consistent while the others are strenghtening already successful squads.
Until Connacht get a real financial boost they will never catch up, they will always be a step behind

barnesd

Dunno if it's been stated but budget is a big issue. Leinster and Munster have roughly equal budgets, Ulster are a little less and Connacht are flippin' miles behind. I think Connachts budget is about half of Leinsters.

dc69

barnesd wrote: »

Dunno if it's been stated but budget is a big issue. Leinster and Munster have roughly equal budgets, Ulster are a little less and Connacht are flippin' miles behind. I think Connachts budget is about half of Leinsters.

I suppose part of that is crowds and jersey sales.It wouldnt be fair to split it equally if the 2 big boys are bringing in all the major revenue

remus808

Connacht are specifically designated by the IRFU as a development side, they're not expected to keep up with the other provinces, and recieve a budget as such. Yes it sucks, but at least its explainable.

damnyanks

To fix connacht is simple really.

First send all the young guns there especially if from Leinster as they are based in Dublin.
Once they show any sign of real promise send about 10 women there way a week.

Wham bam etc. etc.

Ensure female gets pregnant.
Ensure rising star feels responsible for the child thus is willing to support it

Move Connacht to Leitrim

Show said rugby player the cost of raising 10 children in Leitrem compared to Dublin

Said rugby player remains and becomes a world class player.

Each player raises there 10 children, statistically at least 1 should be excellent at rugby.

themont85

There's two ways Connacht can go I reckon, because right now it isn't working as a 'development' side really. They could go the route of proper investment in the team, because they have an awful lot of journeyman SH guys there. I sympathise with Bradley, I mean a couple of years ago they competed very well in the challenge cup against far better funded team. Now some of the best players they had are gone-Jackman and Warick. The IRFU could fund an academy system and get some good players in from oversees. This won't happen I reckon. If we're honest Connacht ain't a hotbed of Irish rugby and they won't want to gamble on something which won't get crowds and payback.

But atm as a development province, its a joke. I mean how many internationals/players for the other provinces have come out of the current investment-Jackman, JOC, Knoop, Duffy and Warick(non Irish qualified though). In my book 4 guys, none of whom are near the Irish side except Jackman for 1.4 million a year or something is a joke. Instead of our academy players on decent money already waiting for a shot at the big 3, why not loan them out and actually be a development province instead of all the waste. I know we hear that rugby clubs don't do loans because of who pays what, but why don't we use our central system properly. They would get a return on the academy players who may not make it at their province normally. It would save money too, which could be invested in the grassroots in Connacht.

psicic

I'm surprised - I think Connacht's problems are mostly funding, followed by the almost annual pillaging of players. (Okay, annual is an exaggeration, but quick examples are Jackman and Warwick amongst others).

Not sure I dislike their current or previous coaches as much as others - surely they're due credit for standard they have reached given the obstacles the IRFU have placed in their path over the years. It's a travesty that the IRFU have hampered and tried to 'wind' up Connacht so often.

I support Leinster, but I love watching Connacht play - for the past 8 - 10 years they play a very engaging type of rugby that I can only describe as 'honest' i.e. they've never fallen into the trap of negative rugby or, for that matter, cheater rugby. They've produced some great derby matches, and enjoyable (if not exactly 'top-flight') rugby like the Saffries match last year.

I'm not from Connacht, but if they had a reasonable affordable 'Exiles' season ticket ala Leinster, I'd certainly consider getting it to help support the Branch.

[Jackass]

You see the problem with Connacht is they are not self-sustainable.

Leinster, Munster and Ulster all bring in good revenue from their respective efforts and also a lot of their players are home grown players. (at least 2/3rds of any starting 15.)

Connacht also have mostly home grown players, but they're not much use, then other Irish players they have often tend to be rejects from other provences, the likes of Andy Dunne et all.

So they bring very little to the table and it's not easy for the IRFU to plough money into Connacht knowing that there isn't a great deal of following there, they're more than likely not going to produce the guts of a HC standard team off their own back as the schools and club infrastructure and population isn't there and for everything they invest in Connacht rugby, they're going to get little or nothing back...hence the reason they tried to wind them up and concentrate on the 3 provences who are capable of breeding their own sucsess and can sustain themselves to some degree.

I really like the Connacht rugby team and would love to see them get into the HC, but having said that, they would easily be the weakest team in it with the possible exception of Italian teams, so is there much point in trying to save Connacht when even if they did have a good team and decent facilities, the following probably wouldn't be much more?

It's harsh I know, but it's understandable from the IRFU's perspective. At the end of the day, it's a professional sport and they have a business to run.

The only future Connacht has is as a development provence where the other 3 can send and recall players imo.

For example, for Leinster, the likes of Fionn Carr, Ciann Healy, Richie Leydon and other promising players can go to develop...even the likes of Sexton, Kearney and Fitzgerald could have gotten a full ML season under there belt before they got their break at Leinster so that these players can have a go at Connacht and if they're up to quality can come back to their provence to get games instead of waiting for an oppertunity to get a break here, they'll have a whole season or two to prove themselves there while they're young to help the other 3 identify and fast track through their most promising young players.

barnesd

God loves a tryer but Bradley is also a huge problem at Connacht imo. He's not good coach.

Zico

Galway is the fastest growing City on the island and has the ideal demographics for Rugby. It's folly to write the province off as a development outfit.

d-gal

To be honest its bull**** with connacht, the team is funded by a lot of local businessmen, johnny o'connor didn;t get there coz of the irfu, the businessmen of galway paid for it. Connacht actualy have a lot of potential in the youth system, they have won the youths cup (u-18s) for the last 2years in a row. Its a load of horse**** with the Irish Schools system coz a lot of lads get picked coz of who u know.

Bradley has good back up with elwood and mcfarland (irish u20 managers) and the team is improving, there was a lot of games that should have been won. I reckon they will skip ahead of ulster next season, especially ulster minus neil best, simon best, wilson, harrison and bowe. Up and comers from connacht such as andy browne, wynne and riordan will shine more next time.

Final word aswell, the irfu are a bunch of idiots who treat the west like crap. there is good players in connacht who deserve better chances eg john muldoon who has played better than o'connor this year and showed up the munster pack the last time around

dc69

d-gal wrote: »

To be honest its bull**** with connacht, the team is funded by a lot of local businessmen, johnny o'connor didn;t get there coz of the irfu, the businessmen of galway paid for it. Connacht actualy have a lot of potential in the youth system, they have won the youths cup (u-18s) for the last 2years in a row. Its a load of horse**** with the Irish Schools system coz a lot of lads get picked coz of who u know.

Bradley has good back up with elwood and mcfarland (irish u20 managers) and the team is improving, there was a lot of games that should have been won. I reckon they will skip ahead of ulster next season, especially ulster minus neil best, simon best, wilson, harrison and bowe. Up and comers from connacht such as andy browne, wynne and riordan will shine more next time.

Final word aswell, the irfu are a bunch of idiots who treat the west like crap. there is good players in connacht who deserve better chances eg john muldoon who has played better than o'connor this year and showed up the munster pack the last time around

I agree with alot of what you are saying but dont take away from people who get picked to play for Ireland because of who they know?thats bull****,people get picked on merit.not because of who they know.

Podge_irl

karmabass wrote: »

Connacht are specifically designated by the IRFU as a development side, they're not expected to keep up with the other provinces, and recieve a budget as such. Yes it sucks, but at least its explainable.

No they aren't. There were efforts to both dispand it and designate it a development province, but neither went ahead. As such they are stuck in something of a limbo, not designated a development province and so youngsters aren't encouraged to go there, yet horribly underfunded.

Zzippy

Connacht have several problems:

• Chronic underfunding and neglect by the IRFU
• Inability to hold on to any players showing promise
• Inability to attract top class players
• Small playing base in the province for home grown talent
• Small average attendances

As someone who attends most of the home games, those are the problems I see. I disagree that the coach is poor, he has done well with the talent available to him. He also has a good staff around him.

Pluses:

• Underage teams going well, should be some players coming through in 3-5 years time.
• Attendances increasing all the time, lots of families coming and interest in the game really improving.
• Schools increasing in numbers and quality of play.

From a fan's point of view, I would love to see Connacht actually designated a development side, as then we might get some decent young players from other provinces, the likes of O'Leary, Sexton, Earls, Healy etc might have come over the last few years and got some ML and Challenge Cup experience. Instead we get aging non-performing players that the other provinces don't want, or former Irish internationals trying to revive their career. Thats in addition to the SH journeymen (look who's playing OH this week against the Dragons! :rolleyes: ).

Either fund the team properly as a professional outfit, or use the team as a development side to give the really promising young players first-team experience, but at the moment its neither one or the other.