can the principal kick a student out of school for being late etc?

declan_lgs

I'm guessing that he probably can, as he would see it as "unpunctual" which is against the "rules", but everything was going a-ok for a long time until today he warned me and a bunch of others personally.

He says the teachers feel insulted as I skip particular classes (mostly religion which we have Mon-Wednesday mornings and do not do as an exam subject. We've already been threatened that if anyone keeps this up, said person will be unwelcome in the 6th year graduation mass. This only bothers me as they expect us to learn a thing or two about standards in that class, and this is how they behave) so I can sleep and so be on-form for classes where I feel I should be, and then come home and fairly lively get some true preparation done for the big LC. He demands my commitment or he tells me to stay at home (as if the teachers wouldn't feel insulted by that).

Even if the teachers are insulted, what about me? They get paid to do what they do, which is to prepare us and it is not about them.

Does he need to expel me or give me a long suspension before he can ask me not to come in and I really should listen to him, and would that go through?

I'm in 6th year and I always thought they would treat us like adults with OUR leaving cert on the horizon (precisely what they've been trying to drill into us for 3 years), and it looked that way until right now.

eoins2345

just persevere ul be rid of the **** in 8 weeks

Cokehead Mother

This thread reads like a parody of teenagers tbh.

europerson

You deserve to be expelled, given the attitudes you've propounded in your post. Here's a ladder, with which to get over yourself.

ZorbaTehZ

It's so close to the leaving, I'd say it's hardly worth worrying about.

declan_lgs

Yesterday I was in for 6 classes and FOUR of them were free. The two classes were maths, which we did a lot of good work in, and English where the teacher attempted for about a half an hour to tell us all what we were going to revise for the next week while the class was having the craic. That is what some of my classes are like, and that is why I would prefer to be at home before about half 12 on a Monday.

Before half 12 today I had fully revised at least 1 or 2 HL Maths questions.

ZorbaTehZ: yeh, maybe. I'll talk to him.

Disallowing me to arrive at school for double maths and accounting and whatever classes we have afterwards seems a bit draconian in my opinion, so I want to know if he can make that really happen. That is the purpose of this thread (take note europerson, cokehead).

Mr. Presentable

Wow. If you are having stamina problems from being in school for a few hours you really need to see a doctor! When you get into the real world where people have to work for a living you will fade away.

Apart from that, if you are going to school you are required to go to all of it unless specifically exempted. Your principal has bosses to answer to re your attendance.

You say you want to be treated like an adult - you should therefore demonstrate an entitlement to be so treated, and a good way to begin would be by acting in a mature and responsible manner with respect to your education.

On the other hand, as has been pointed out, you can just fake it for a few weeks by turning up on time, and hey, you're outta there.

Delphi91

declan_lgs wrote: »

I'm guessing that he probably can, as he would see it as "unpunctual" which is against the "rules", but everything was going a-ok for a long time until today he warned me and a bunch of others personally.

He says the teachers feel insulted as I skip particular classes (mostly religion which we have Mon-Wednesday mornings and do not do as an exam subject. We've already been threatened that if anyone keeps this up, said person will be unwelcome in the 6th year graduation mass. This only bothers me as they expect us to learn a thing or two about standards in that class, and this is how they behave) so I can sleep and so be on-form for classes where I feel I should be, and then come home and fairly lively get some true preparation done for the big LC. He demands my commitment or he tells me to stay at home (as if the teachers wouldn't feel insulted by that).

Even if the teachers are insulted, what about me? They get paid to do what they do, which is to prepare us and it is not about them.

Does he need to expel me or give me a long suspension before he can ask me not to come in and I really should listen to him, and would that go through?

I'm in 6th year and I always thought they would treat us like adults with OUR leaving cert on the horizon (precisely what they've been trying to drill into us for 3 years), and it looked that way until right now.

Ok, so you want to pick and chose what subjects/classes you want to attend for??? You're complaining about standards which you learn about in religion, and you have this attitude???

He's perfectly correct in his attitude - either you're in school or you're not. As for suspension, well it depends on the school rules - but if school rules ask that you are on time for all your classes then he is perfectly entitled to suspend (if that's a specific sanction in your school's Code of Behaviour)

You ask to be treated as an adult - then behave like one!! If you don't want to be in school then stay at home.

mahamageehad

im also a 6th year student, and an atheist. In our school being a "catholic" school everyone is forced to do religion. Now i know it can be done as a leaving cert subject now, and i did it myself for the junior cert. But i dont see why i should have it shoved down my throat. Also i think in 6th year dedicating 4 classes a week to religion is a bit much. I went to the principal and explained my feelings about the matter and he compromised and allowed me to study for 2 of these classes. Maybe you should try talking to ur principal too i know they can be p***ks but they want you to do good too!!

Delphi91

mahamageehad wrote: »

...Also i think in 6th year dedicating 4 classes a week to religion is a bit much...

If its a catholic school (run by an order etc) then there are specific requirements on the amount of time that has to be devoted to teaching religion in the school.

meeka

As far as I know, schools have to confer with their board of management before being able to expel a student, and I seriously doubt you'd get expelled for merely skipping class. I wouldn't worry about it, if I were you. That said, you probably shouldn't skip so much class - if you have frees, just study maybe? Only a few weeks left now.

Overheal

declan_lgs wrote: »

Yesterday I was in for 6 classes and FOUR of them were free.

What better time to get to the study hall and write out notes? 1/3 of all my study time in 6th year I think I poured into writing a hardbook of revision notes for economics. Worked the ticket, too.

The two classes were maths, which we did a lot of good work in, and English where the teacher attempted for about a half an hour to tell us all what we were going to revise for the next week while the class was having the craic. That is what some of my classes are like, and that is why I would prefer to be at home before about half 12 on a Monday.

So you were told what to revise and given 4 hours (or is it 4x40mins I cant remember anymore) to revise. You couldve gotten a whole week of everyone dicking about in class out of the way by revising it yourself first.

Before half 12 today I had fully revised at least 1 or 2 HL Maths questions.

I type too fast: spot on.

Disallowing me to arrive at school for double maths and accounting and whatever classes we have afterwards seems a bit draconian in my opinion, so I want to know if he can make that really happen. That is the purpose of this thread (take note europerson, cokehead).

He can. I had an epic headmaster but he was epic because he was fair and stern. You'll find a good HM will give you credit where credit is due but doesn't mind giving you a proverbial smack when its merited as well. This seems to be the case. He can halt you from sitting exams in his school; and you will have to find another facility to sit them in. People have been excluded for less.

I'm also an Aetheist from a Catholic school however in my case Religion was not on the 6th year curriculum.. but that was before it became an examination subject.

I know how easy it is to be stubborn about your principles. Personally? You have to shove it. I used to lock horns with my Maths teacher all through 6th year until it just became not worth it. I sat down I shut up and I did my work.

Theres only a few weeks left. For the love of The Big Bang just go in.

gaeilgegrinds

Going to a Catholic school means you go along with their rules. Simply go to a different school if your views differ. The school I teach in is multidenominational. Problem solved. Ragarding skipping certain classes, as an adult (which is how you said you wish to be treated) you will have to do lots of things you don't want to. With such little time left why not concentrate on what you should be doing, rather than trying to make a point which in the end will probably only bother you & reduce your chances of success.

europerson

mahamageehad wrote: »

im also a 6th year student, and an atheist. In our school being a "catholic" school everyone is forced to do religion. Now i know it can be done as a leaving cert subject now, and i did it myself for the junior cert. But i dont see why i should have it shoved down my throat. Also i think in 6th year dedicating 4 classes a week to religion is a bit much. I went to the principal and explained my feelings about the matter and he compromised and allowed me to study for 2 of these classes. Maybe you should try talking to ur principal too i know they can be p***ks but they want you to do good too!!

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Going to a Catholic school means you go along with their rules. Simply go to a different school if your views differ. The school I teach in is multidenominational. Problem solved. Ragarding skipping certain classes, as an adult (which is how you said you wish to be treated) you will have to do lots of things you don't want to. With such little time left why not concentrate on what you should be doing, rather than trying to make a point which in the end will probably only bother you & reduce your chances of success.

No one's forcing you to go to that particular school. If you don't like the school's religious ethos, then go elsewhere, as gaeilgegrinds suggests. I never understand people who make this argument. It's the same for all rules and standards in schools: if you don't like them, go to a different school. Perhaps, you've changed your beliefs since you began school, but surely that would also involve a rejection of any previous beliefs you clearly had when you joined a religious school: if you felt so strongly about your atheism, there's no way you'd be in a denominational school! You're undermining your own life's philosophy!

mahamageehad

europerson wrote: »

No one's forcing you to go to that particular school. If you don't like the school's religious ethos, then go elsewhere, as gaeilgegrinds suggests. I never understand people who make this argument. It's the same for all rules and standards in schools: if you don't like them, go to a different school. Perhaps, you've changed your beliefs since you began school, but surely that would also involve a rejection of any previous beliefs you clearly had when you joined a religious school: if you felt so strongly about your atheism, there's no way you'd be in a denominational school! You're undermining your own life's philosophy!

Actually there are only 2 options for schools where i live, the catholic school or the vocational. The vocational doesnt hav a very good reputation (drugs etc) so my mother wouldnt allow me to go there and personally i know that the majority of teachers in my school are better than those in the other school, a point thats reflected my grades. The way i look at it after i get my education i can afford to be philosophical!! Any way we're gone off point here, the main thing is that talking to teachers and principals can help.

GLaDOS

My religion teacher is very sensible about his classes i feel. Aslong as you keep quiet you can do whatever you want

europerson

mahamageehad wrote: »

The way i look at it after i get my education i can afford to be philosophical!!

Exactly. Therefore, I'm sure the OP could put up with two hours of 'philosophy' each week.

spurious

mahamageehad wrote: »

personally i know that the majority of teachers in my school are better than those in the other school, a point thats reflected my grades

How do you know that? You don't.
Without knowing the entrance policy for your school and that of the other school you know nothing by comparing your grades with anyone else.

For your information, the VEC schools for years required a higher standard of qualification than the privately-owned Catholic schools, but don't let a small thing like a fact get in the way of your opinion. The qualifications needed are roughly the same now, though perhaps teachers who teach in the hell-holes you obviously consider vocational schools to be actually have to be better at what they do to get any grades out of the students at all?

Like the OP, you should suck it up and follow the rules for the school that you or your mammy chose when you left primary school.

Peleus

I'm always late for school, but we have this five minute period in between the start of school and the start of class, but i always miss it cos theres no point in getting to school five mins before class to sit around doing nothing.

When the headmaster/deputy head give out to you for being late, just accept whatever punnishment they give you, do whatever they tell you like a good boy. within a week, you can go back to your old self. If you start complaining now, they'll increase the punishment and won't forget about if for a long time. They always give out to me for being late and its so annoying. they think they're teaching me a life lesson but don't realise that i will be on time for work in the future because it will be somewhere i actually want to be.

rainbowtrout

mahamageehad wrote: »

me to go there and personally i know that the majority of teachers in my school are better than those in the other school, a point thats reflected my grades.

why? because you compared your grades to some student in the vocational school? that automatically makes your teachers better??? Rubbish.

vocational schools tend to have a larger intake of students with special educational needs, or students refused entry to the convent school down the road etc etc, and in some towns this is very obvious. That doesn't make the teachers any way inferior and as spurious said they often have to work a lot harder to help their students acheive.


Achievement is not measured in the number of A1s you get in your leaving cert. it's doing the best you can and making the most of your time in school.

back on topic - when you enrol in a school, you agree to their policies. if they make provision for students with beliefs other than what is taught in the school, great. if not, deal with it.


OP - if i was the principal, I too would be annoyed with you, you may feel that you are not getting anything out of religion classes, but if all leaving cert students were to start coming and going, picking and choosing classes whenever they felt like it, the school would be mayhem. you're either in school or you're not, you can't come and go when you feel like it. The school is responsible for your welfare when you are supposed to be in. They don't need the hassle of you turning up late and leaving early. There can't be one rule for you and another for everyone else. Again your school had rules and a policy that you signed up to when you enroled. Live with it.

rainbowtrout

Peleus wrote: »

They always give out to me for being late and its so annoying. they think they're teaching me a life lesson but don't realise that i will be on time for work in the future because it will be somewhere i actually want to be.

Because they want you to get to class on time. There's nothing more irritating that teaching a class and having a stream of latecomers streaming in disrupting the class for the first ten minutes.

PurpleFistMixer

I'm always late for school too... about 4 years ago they moved the start time of school forward by five minutes and I just never adjusted. That and, like Peleus, I can't stand to be hanging around school before it starts, so I end up being a couple minutes late. By now everyone's just gotten used to it. I don't come in late for the purpose of missing classes though, so I think it's a bit different. In fact I'd call what you're doing not so much being late as skipping school.

And, well it depends on your school and how they approach it, but religion can be a good class when you're in 6th year, gives you a bit of perspective and a bit of a break. It's nice to have a class which isn't completely exam-oriented.

mahamageehad

spurious wrote: »

How do you know that? You don't.
Without knowing the entrance policy for your school and that of the other school you know nothing by comparing your grades with anyone else.

For your information, the VEC schools for years required a higher standard of qualification than the privately-owned Catholic schools, but don't let a small thing like a fact get in the way of your opinion. The qualifications needed are roughly the same now, though perhaps teachers who teach in the hell-holes you obviously consider vocational schools to be actually have to be better at what they do to get any grades out of the students at all?

Woah!!!! :eek: Some people get so defensive!! Im not putting down all vocational schools, im jst saying in my particular town there is a higher rate of dropouts in the VC, lower average result rates over all, and higher rates of trouble (ie suspensions and expulsions). and yes i do know their entrance policy, i sat their entrance exam. I know quite a few people in the school and over all there isnt the same work-ethnic in the VC.

spurious wrote: »

privately-owned Catholic schools

Thats a little childish as well i might add.

rainbowtrout

mahamageehad wrote: »

Woah!!!! :eek: Some people get so defensive!! Im not putting down all vocational schools, im jst saying in my particular town there is a higher rate of dropouts in the VC, lower average result rates over all, and higher rates of trouble (ie suspensions and expulsions). and yes i do know their entrance policy, i sat their entrance exam. I know quite a few people in the school and over all there isnt the same work-ethnic in the VC.

yes, lower than 'average' results can come from having an enrolment of students that are lower than average achievers academically. As i said many of these students are often denied enrolment in the local convent/brothers school. Naturally results will be lower as a result. It does not mean the results are not good. For some students an ordinary level D might be the best they can do, it does not make it a bad result - for them it is an achievement. Low academic achievement tends to go with disinterest on the part of the student, which can lead to trouble. This doesn't happen in all vocational schools, some perhaps but certainly not all. So you might have had the choice in deciding which school you wanted to go to, some of your neighbouring students in the school down the road may not have had that choice. Do you think their behaviour and results would be vastly different had they gone to your school?

spurious

spurious wrote:

privately-owned Catholic schools

mahamageehad wrote: »

Thats a little childish as well i might add.

I don't understand what you mean by childish.
It is a fact that most of the schools run by religious orders in this country are privately-owned. Do you think they are not?
It's the reason they can pick and choose only the better academic students, make rules based on religion etc.

'Privately-owned' is not the same as 'private school', which would be the fee-paying sector, which includes a much smaller number of schools - perhaps that's what you thought I meant.

Sitting an entrance exam does not mean you have any idea of the entrance policy.
What percentage of children with learning disabilities does either school take?
Would either school take a child who was reading at the level of a seven year old?
Which school will take all applicants from the local area, regardless of how they do on 'entrance tests'?

Which school is 'better', the one that takes a 12 year old reading at the age of a 6 year old to pass a Foundation Level English JC exam in three years or the one that takes a 12 year old reading at the level of a 12 year old to get a B in a higher Level English paper in the JC.?

Back on topic - the privately-owned religious schools are quite entitled to have their rules and anyone who joins them should stick by them. If you don't like them, leave.

Peleus

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because they want you to get to class on time. There's nothing more irritating that teaching a class and having a stream of latecomers streaming in disrupting the class for the first ten minutes.

ye but i dont do that. Im rarely late for class. As i said in my post. You have to be in school five mins before class starts. if you get in on time, you wait around for five mins and then go to class. But I just turn up a minute before class starts. i still get in trouble because they wanna teach me that being late is bad. I wouldnt be late if it would mean i'd miss something important, but i don't miss anything important, just people sitting around doing nothing.

mahamageehad

spurious wrote: »

'Privately-owned' is not the same as 'private school', which would be the fee-paying sector, which includes a much smaller number of schools - perhaps that's what you thought I meant

Whoops sorry bout dat!!:p

gaeilgegrinds

Off the point here but the day we all get our fair share or certain percentage of certain types of pupils, I won't specify,is the day such debates about certain schools become invalid.

Ino112

Not only is 'mitching' off a class (regardless of what is it) bad manners, it also shows your lack of commitment towards school. You are purposely avoiding a class and presume your principal will be okay with that? *laughs*..

Schools must teach withi their mission statement, and for the majority of Catholic schools, that is to bring them up in a Catholic environment. Maybe you should have checked their statement out BEFORE enrolling and save all this childish hissy-fitting.

For our religion class, we are allowed do h/w OR religion. The class is divided and is usually 50% for each. So think of some people who may actually benfit/like religion class, and how insulting it is for you to deem it useless. I know I'd be tee'd off if someone found themselves 'above' what I enjoy doing.

*trails off*..