Studios: Do you display prices including VAT?

TelePaul

Wondering if your quotes/advertised rates include VAT @ 21%?

Savman

I'd say a more accurate question might be "are you VAT registered"?

TelePaul

Savman wrote: »

I'd say a more accurate question might be "are you VAT registered"?

I'm assuming only VAT registered studios will answer.

Savman

TelePaul wrote: »

I'm assuming only VAT registered studios will answer.

Why? I would imagine you're alienating a lot of startup guys in that case. Guys with decent gear, just not necessarily registered with the vatman.

TelePaul

Savman wrote: »

Why? I would imagine you're alienating a lot of startup guys in that case. Guys with decent gear, just not necessarily registered with the vatman.

Why would I want to know if a company who's not VAT-registered charges customers VAT?

unclebill98

Yes.

TelePaul

unclebill98 wrote: »

Yes.

Cool. Thanks.

frobisher

I'd say most do. Could be wrong though.

dav nagle

TelePaul wrote: »

Why would I want to know if a company who's not VAT-registered charges customers VAT?

If someone in business charges VAT and is not paying it then they are the lowest of the low. VAT = 21% = 21% MORE MONEY

I have been stung before. You ask a price and they say '€300' and then when you go to pay they add + 21 % VAT .

'Oh but you never mentioned that?

Business should make VAT clear from the start

TelePaul

dav nagle wrote: »

If someone in business charges VAT and is not paying it then they are the lowest of the low. VAT = 21% = 21% MORE MONEY

I got that, but that's a different scenario altogether.

dav nagle wrote: »

I have been stung before. You ask a price and they say '€300' and then when you go to pay they add + 21 % VAT .

'Oh but you never mentioned that?

Business should make VAT clear from the start

Yeah that's pretty much the exact scenario I'm talking about.

dav nagle

TelePaul wrote: »

I got that, but that's a different scenario altogether.



Yeah that's pretty much the exact scenario I'm talking about.

Its cheap and dirty and anyone who does will not ever come recommended from me and in fact I will bitch about them and make a small effort to destroy them!!! whoahahahahahahhah

unclebill98

Well you do not have to be reg'd for vat to run a business. You simple do not charge/or claim back VAT. You must be compliant with your income tax to be lawful.

Everyone pays VAT in Ireland regardless if its business or pleasure. Those who are reg'd can claim it back and can charge it.

It is disgraceful that companies are not upfront with this. Its in ever type of business. I've recently dealt with it in Estate Agents/Architects/Solicitors and even home decor places.

If you are asked to pay vat then you should get an invoice with there VAT number on it and a break down of the charges etc. Sure you can always scope them out to make sure they ain't telling fibs here....

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/vieshome.do?selectedLanguage=EN

TelePaul

unclebill98 wrote: »

It is disgraceful that companies are not upfront with this. Its in ever type of business. I've recently dealt with it in Estate Agents/Architects/Solicitors and even home decor places.

I should have been clear that I'm fine with a company off-setting VAT claimed against VAT paid - obviously there's no problem there, but I'm almost sure that there is a legal obligation to include VAT in the disclosed price. It's pretty rough to be hit with that extra 21% when you get an invoice.

dav nagle

unclebill98 wrote: »

Well you do not have to be reg'd for vat to run a business. You simple do not charge/or claim back VAT. You must be compliant with your income tax to be lawful.

Everyone pays VAT in Ireland regardless if its business or pleasure. Those who are reg'd can claim it back and can charge it.

It is disgraceful that companies are not upfront with this. Its in ever type of business. I've recently dealt with it in Estate Agents/Architects/Solicitors and even home decor places.

If you are asked to pay vat then you should get an invoice with there VAT number on it and a break down of the charges etc. Sure you can always scope them out to make sure they ain't telling fibs here....

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/vieshome.do?selectedLanguage=EN

Yes very interesting topic. I have been bamboozled by some real scabby snakes and I know who you are (Remember big brother is watching, you money hungry thieves.)

unclebill98

TelePaul wrote: »

I should have been clear that I'm fine with a company off-setting VAT claimed against VAT paid - obviously there's no problem there, but I'm almost sure that there is a legal obligation to include VAT in the disclosed price. It's pretty rough to be hit with that extra 21% when you get an invoice.

Well I can not really talk about studios as I've not used one in years. As i did say when I called an Architect and a Solicitor to get quotes for work the given quotes did not included vat, but when the fee proposal was sent to me it had the quoted figure with the Vat added on. This seems to be standard practice.

Best to clear it up at the start before you press record. Maybe obtain a written quote before you get anything started. They do have you by the short and curlys when there standing there waiving you demo/album and are looking for you to cough up the vat.... Buyer beware.

PaulBrewer

In a Business to Business deal the norm would be to quote ex Vat as it's not a cost per se i.e. You pay it to claim it back, so your ACTUAL cost is the ex Vat price.

However if you are not Vat registered the Vat then becomes part of the price i.e. you can't claim it back.

There should be a 3rd option in the Poll ....... 'Don't charge Vat'

Most semi-pro studios don't charge it in my experience.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

In a Business to Business deal the norm would be to quote ex Vat as it's not a cost per se i.e. You pay it to claim it back, so your ACTUAL cost is the ex Vat price.

However if you are not Vat registered the Vat then becomes part of the price i.e. you can't claim it back.

There should be a 3rd option in the Poll ....... 'Don't charge Vat'

Most semi-pro studios don't charge it in my experience.

Hi Paul.

The problem I have is when a person is quoted one price, and then sent a bill for that price + 21%.

Savman

TelePaul wrote: »

The problem I have is when a person is quoted one price, and then sent a bill for that price + 21%.

It's standard practice in commercial transactions. You are not obliged to include VAT in your quotes unless you are dealing with consumers, or if you do quote prices ex VAT it must be clearly displayed/mentioned. In the business realm, it's generally accepted that whenever someone quotes you a price that it does not include VAT.

Incidentally, your poll won't really prove anything, this is common in any industry not just moosik. Try the motoring industry for example, ever rang around getting quotes to have a vehicle towed? Or having work done on a vehicle? Everything is ex VAT, so buyer beware.

unclebill98

Savman wrote: »

It's standard practice in commercial transactions. You are not obliged to include VAT in your quotes unless you are dealing with consumers, or if you do quote prices ex VAT it must be clearly displayed/mentioned. In the business realm, it's generally accepted that whenever someone quotes you a price that it does not include VAT.

Incidentally, your poll won't really prove anything, this is common in any industry not just moosik. Try the motoring industry for example, ever rang around getting quotes to have a vehicle towed? Or having work done on a vehicle? Everything is ex VAT, so buyer beware.

There you go, i could not have said it better myself...

dav nagle

Telling someone about VAT is only important when the product they are buying is very expensive.

21% is a good bit of extra cash so in my experience a good business man will let you know about VAT during a discussion about buying a product. Nobody is saying you should not charge VAT but it can seem a bit sly if it is not mentioned. Some young guys really stretch themselves spending over a thousand so it is nice when the business transaction is clear from the start.No?

brettzy

I understand business to business dealing but it's just not right to give a quote ex VAT to clients who can't claim it back. Every quote I give includes VAT, tis only fair

unclebill98

brettzy wrote: »

I understand business to business dealing but it's just not right to give a quote ex VAT to clients who can't claim it back. Every quote I give includes VAT, tis only fair

Well how exactly does a business know if they are vat reg'd our not?

PaulBrewer

I heard now Brian Cowen is going to be the Boss he's going to abolish all Tax ....... except for two -

An 'Ahead of the Beat Tax' where you pay 13% for rushing in front of the click

and

a Tuning Tax where if you record anything out of tune you pay 35%


Seems fair to me ......

PaulBrewer

This whole issue is made irrelevant by one Question -

"Does that include Vat?"

Savman

brettzy wrote: »

I understand business to business dealing but it's just not right to give a quote ex VAT to clients who can't claim it back. Every quote I give includes VAT, tis only fair

You'd be very much in the minority. If you were quoting me I wouldn't want any figure inclusive of VAT, it actually makes you look less professional because you wouldn't be telling me up front what the cost is to me.
This all really much ado about nothing IMHO, the system works fine when you quote x figure "plus VAT", it's being very transparent about what your actual fee is.

Whatever about getting stung with 21%, you live and learn and next time you get a price you take the initiative and ask.

brettzy

Savman wrote: »

You'd be very much in the minority. If you were quoting me I wouldn't want any figure inclusive of VAT, it actually makes you look less professional because you wouldn't be telling me up front what the cost is to me.
This all really much ado about nothing IMHO, the system works fine when you quote x figure "plus VAT", it's being very transparent about what your actual fee is.

Whatever about getting stung with 21%, you live and learn and next time you get a price you take the initiative and ask.

To give you one example.

A gang of kids came out to record for a couple of days and told me that they had been to another studio in town before coming to me. Before going there they asked the guy in charge if they could use they're amps and drums which they were told no problem. They got a quote for the session and brought the exact amount with them. After the session they were told they had to pay extra for using their gear and that VAT wasn't included. Their parents had to drive out with the extra cash.

They learned a lesson but never went back to the studio!

brettzy

As for looking less professional, fair enough. But I have all the figures ex vat on a word document on me pc, so if anyone wants to know all they need to do is ask.

BTW, i can only remember it happening once.

Savman

brettzy wrote: »

They got a quote for the session and brought the exact amount with them. After the session they were told they had to pay extra for using their gear and that VAT wasn't included.

Well that's just stoopid. They learned a valuable lesson alright, but it's still shortsightedness on behalf of the service provider.

brettzy

Savman wrote: »

Well that's just stoopid. They learned a valuable lesson alright, but it's still shortsightedness on behalf of the service provider.

Totally agree

studiorat

I've been caught out on both sides of the fence on this one. Cost me dearly each time! I had a situation where I nearly didn't get paid 'cause I wasn't registered!
You wouldn't believe the amount of people who ask not to pay it, or ask you to drop your rate!

brettzy

studiorat wrote: »

I've been caught out on both sides of the fence on this one. Cost me dearly each time! I had a situation where I nearly didn't get paid 'cause I wasn't registered!
You wouldn't believe the amount of people who ask not to pay it, or ask you to drop your rate!

Tell them, yeah, I'll drop the VAT. But I'll have to charge you 25% more because of the risk factor!!:D

irishthump

PaulBrewer wrote: »

An 'Ahead of the Beat Tax' where you pay 13% for rushing in front of the click

I would be against that as it clearly discriminates against most guitar players....

PaulBrewer

irishthump wrote: »

I would be against that as it clearly discriminates against most guitar players....

And Drummers!!