Leinster Landsdowne road

dc69

With Leinsters attendances flourishing,do you think there would come a time when landsdowne road could become their home ground.Edinburgh already do it with murrayfield,so why not?

when its open they should at least be using it for 8 magners league games(against the top clubs) a season and all their heineken cup games imo.

[Jackass]

Possibly in the future, as you say the attendences are growing year on year and Rugby is becoming more and more popular in the main stream with the sucsess of the national team and provences and maybe used to have an "elitest" type reputation in Ireland, but now the crowds at games are becoming more diverse.

But at the moment I dont think we would have the fan base to be able to fill Lansdowne for Magners League games week in week out and I think the fact that the RDS is packed to the rafters each week is massive for the team and is why it's become some what of a fortress for us, whereas empty seats in a ground (like Murrayfield for Edinburgh!!) completley kills the atmosphere.

Personally I like it the way it is, 18,500 is a good size for matches, I'd say we'd fill up to 25,000 maybe each week for ML if it was bigger, but once you start hitting 30,000+ I'm not sure we would.

However for HC we would have no problem getting 50,000 people through the gates from the pool onwards, and would get more if Lansdowne could hold more, but then there's the debate that are we taking away from the RDS atmosphere and fortress status it's becoming for the team in favour of bigger crowds? I don't know the answer really, I think maybe keep the groups in the RDS then move to Lansdowne for the knock-outs, but I'd say when Lansdowne is finished we'll use RDS for all ML games and Lansdowne for all HC games.

Someday, hopefully, Lansdowne will be our home ground. It would be great to get that kind of fan base (50,000) to games each week.

Then there's the problem of where would we play the game if Leinster were to play Munster in a semi-final again?? (Doesn't it have to be a home "neutral" venue?) And would they allow Lansdowne be used as a ground to host the final if it was declared as a home ground for a team competing in it?

Leinster vs Munster in Croke Park for a HC semi-final or Final?? **Drools**

dc69

[Jackass] wrote: »

Possibly in the future, as you say the attendences are growing year on year and Rugby is becoming more and more popular in the main stream with the sucsess of the national team and provences and maybe used to have an "elitest" type reputation in Ireland, but now the crowds at games are becoming more diverse.

But at the moment I dont think we would have the fan base to be able to fill Lansdowne for Magners League games week in week out and I think the fact that the RDS is packed to the rafters each week is massive for the team and is why it's become some what of a fortress for us, whereas empty seats in a ground (like Murrayfield for Edinburgh!!) completley kills the atmosphere.

Personally I like it the way it is, 18,500 is a good size for matches, I'd say we'd fill up to 25,000 maybe each week for ML if it was bigger, but once you start hitting 30,000+ I'm not sure we would.

However for HC we would have no problem getting 50,000 people through the gates from the pool onwards, and would get more if Lansdowne could hold more, but then there's the debate that are we taking away from the RDS atmosphere and fortress status it's becoming for the team in favour of bigger crowds? I don't know the answer really, I think maybe keep the groups in the RDS then move to Lansdowne for the knock-outs, but I'd say when Lansdowne is finished we'll use RDS for all ML games and Lansdowne for all HC games.

Someday, hopefully, Lansdowne will be our home ground. It would be great to get that kind of fan base (50,000) to games each week.

Then there's the problem of where would we play the game if Leinster were to play Munster in a semi-final again?? (Doesn't it have to be a home "neutral" venue?) And would they allow Lansdowne be used as a ground to host the final if it was declared as a home ground for a team competing in it?

Leinster vs Munster in Croke Park for a HC semi-final or Final?? **Drools**

I agree but i think its the seating arrangements in muurayfiled that are stupid.Seating should be on all 4 stands from the ground to about half way up etc.Instead of having fans all over the place and occupying only 1 stand.

razorblunt

I wouldnt be a fanof moving them to Landsdowne Road permanently I think its ridiculous when teams play at grounds with way too much capacity like Edinburgh, London Irish and Saracens to name a few.

Im not saying Leinster wouldnt fill it occasionly but it would look terrible when its half empty.

RuggieBear

i agree with razor. I was at the leinster Edinburgh game two seasons back in Murrayfield. Absolutely soulless with 4000 people in there.

Obviously if we were getting crowds significan'tly more than 18000 then moving big matched to lansdowne would happen. Think this is the idea anyway.

LeeroyJones

its awful seeing matches,regardless of what sport, played in staiums less than 80% full. any atmosphere generated is quickly done away with. edinburgh in murrayfield is ridiculas. im sure they've looked into the possibility of playing at Easter Road or Tynecastle-dno if they would even fill those either though.

i dont like the idea either of national stadiums been used by anybody else other than national teams on a regular basis.

zAbbo

Bar HC and Munster games, I doubt the attendance would be more than 15k.

It makes sense to use LR for Heineiken cup games though (as it was before the rebuilding).

The RDS is now home for Leinster, and it makes sense to have a 18k stadium, with also access to a 45k one, which are close to each other.

dc69

LeeroyJones wrote: »

its awful seeing matches,regardless of what sport, played in staiums less than 80% full. any atmosphere generated is quickly done away with. edinburgh in murrayfield is ridiculas. im sure they've looked into the possibility of playing at Easter Road or Tynecastle-dno if they would even fill those either though.

i dont like the idea either of national stadiums been used by anybody else other than national teams on a regular basis.

well seing as the irfu own half the stadium and leinster,it would make commercial sence to play at least the big magners league games and hcup games in landsdowne

zAbbo

dc69 wrote: »

well seing as the irfu own half the stadium and leinster,it would make commercial sence to play at least the big magners league games and hcup games in landsdowne

That was the case before the re-development started.

Don't take this as offence, but are you a recent fan?

The attendances for Gloucester and Agen were around 18-20, so the benefit of switching games to LR, even now with additional support would still mean a half empty stadium.

Bluetonic

Of course the FAI would have to agree to it now that they are part owners of Lansdowne and no longer tenants.

I can't see it being commercially viable to run a stadium at 2/5 capacity which all it realistically would be.

Podge_irl

Bluetonic wrote: »

Of course the FAI would have to agree to it now that they are part owners of Lansdowne and no longer tenants.

I can't see it being commercially viable to run a stadium at 2/5 capacity which all it realistically would be.

I'd imagine the IRFU can use it whenever they so choose. Whether that will be necessary in the near furture debatable. Donnybrook was far too small to host HEC games, but 18500 is about right for now, and not many more would turn in Landowne I imagine. Considering the growth in attendances, it could well be possible/necessary soon enough though. The potential is certainly there and as is Leinster would fill 2/5 or more of the ground for a HEC or Munster game.

barnesd

For big games (Munster, HEC groups against top teams) then I'd say LR will be used. There were 30k at the last Leinster v Munster game in LR and I doubt the branch will leave potentially 12k+ tickets unsold.

dc69

zAbbo wrote: »

That was the case before the re-development started.

Don't take this as offence, but are you a recent fan?

The attendances for Gloucester and Agen were around 18-20, so the benefit of switching games to LR, even now with additional support would still mean a half empty stadium.

nope,I am a long time fan.I was more asking whether in a few years a permanent move would be a good idea.

The new landsdown road is a joke of a capacity anyway,only 50,000 or so.I think for Hcup games it would easily take in 35,000+ people.

Also,all this talk of half empty stadiums is mainly making comparisons to Murrayfield.The seating setup there is stupid,if the seating was alocated properly,obviously the stadium would not be close to capacity but by selectively selecting the seats.an illusion of a big capacity could be made,ie dont have people sitting anywhere over half way up and make sure every stand is occupied.

simonrooneyzaga

this has come up multiple times here. when will people realise that the rds is the home of leinster 1sts rugby for the very distant future! long lease has been signed (over 20 years).. why would they want to move to a 3/5ths full stadium when they can house 20,000 in a venue that generates a superb atmosphere!

Podge_irl

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

why would they want to move to a 3/5ths full stadium when they can house 20,000 in a venue that generates a superb atmosphere!

Money...

Diamondmaker

Podge_irl wrote: »

Money...

Same $$$ incentive was there prior to siging up with LDR for 20 years so obviously it was not the only factor in the decision.

Anyone who has been to a game in the DB or RDS and also LDR would agree that RDS is the best option for now. Perhaps that legendary SF Vs Munster may have gone a different way if the game was in RDS and the crowd was notso dominantly Munster ....it was intimidating even for the pockets of Leinster fans imagine how it felt for the players walking out onto a sea of red.

Al_Fernz

Slightly OT here I'm just wondering what everybody's opinions of having the RDS as a long term home are?

For me the advantages are its atmosphere and location. However, there is only one proper stand, from which the view is often obstructed by poles. The other stands are basically scaffolding and there might be a chance that the IRB would ban them like in soccer.

IMO rugby has grown in the last 2 years and I think the attdance for the Gloucester or Agen games now would be neared to 30,000 now.

dc69

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Slightly OT here I'm just wondering what everybody's opinions of having the RDS as a long term home are?

For me the advantages are its atmosphere and location. However, there is only one proper stand, from which the view is often obstructed by poles. The other stands are basically scaffolding and there might be a chance that the IRB would ban them like in soccer.

IMO rugby has grown in the last 2 years and I think the attdance for the Gloucester or Agen games now would be neared to 30,000 now.

for me I think its nice but i think it needs modernising.The core is perfect so there is no reason they couldnt spend a few mill and get it looking brand new.

They could renovate the stands and replaster the whole thing( looks old as hell) etc,add in tv screens and new doors etc and a permanant bar and better toilets.(wishfull thinking lol)

Its grand but if they were bothered they could make it look and feel like a really nice venue.

I could go on and on but it is a nice home,hopefully they will make improovements according with the increase in attendance.

simonrooneyzaga

Podge_irl wrote: »

Money...

read the rest of my post - there has already been a long term lease in the rds signed... Lansdowne is not going to happen very soon for leinster unless its in a hcup final.

dc69

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

read the rest of my post - there has already been a long term lease in the rds signed... Lansdowne is not going to happen very soon for leinster unless its in a hcup final.

it will clearly happen with alot of Heineken cup games and some select magners league games!just like before

Podge_irl

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

read the rest of my post - there has already been a long term lease in the rds signed... Lansdowne is not going to happen very soon for leinster unless its in a hcup final.

No one is suggesting it as a permanent home ground, but there are clearly some games that could fill or come close to filling it and the extra ten, twenty or even thirty thousand tickets would easily cover the cost of opening it (seeing as its owned by the IRFU) and then some.

Podge_irl

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Anyone who has been to a game in the DB or RDS and also LDR would agree that RDS is the best option for now. Perhaps that legendary SF Vs Munster may have gone a different way if the game was in RDS and the crowd was notso dominantly Munster ....it was intimidating even for the pockets of Leinster fans imagine how it felt for the players walking out onto a sea of red.

The game couldn't have been in the RDS so that point is immaterial.

jackbhoy

dc69 wrote: »

for me I think its nice but i think it needs modernising.The core is perfect so there is no reason they couldnt spend a few mill and get it looking brand new.

They could renovate the stands and replaster the whole thing( looks old as hell) etc,add in tv screens and new doors etc and a permanant bar and better toilets.(wishfull thinking lol)

Its grand but if they were bothered they could make it look and feel like a really nice venue.

There are plans to cover the new stand, was supposed to be done already but should def be in place for next season.
The potential refurbishment of Anglesea stand/terrace is severely limited as section of the stand is a listed/protected building and cannot be significantly altered. There is still lots of room for improvement there though, especially the supporters bar and toilets. At least lads have decent surface to play on now that schools have D'Brook to themselves, used to be in very poor state by this stage of season.

Oh regarding this 20 year lease, does anyone have source for this? I very much doubt it is this long-term, I'd say 5-10 max but open to correction....

dc69

jackbhoy wrote: »

There are plans to cover the new stand, was supposed to be done already but should def be in place for next season.
The potential refurbishment of Anglesea stand/terrace is severely limited as section of the stand is a listed/protected building and cannot be significantly altered. There is still lots of room for improvement there though, especially the supporters bar and toilets. At least lads have decent surface to play on now that schools have D'Brook to themselves, used to be in very poor state by this stage of season.

Oh regarding this 20 year lease, does anyone have source for this? I very much doubt it is this long-term, I'd say 5-10 max but open to correction....

I thought so,about the listed part.Hopefully they can do something with it,it could do with a great deal of modernising and the horse people would benefit aswell,the bill could be split.oh well

zAbbo

20 year lease?, would it not be closer to 200, or however these contracts are drawn up.

Bear in mind this is the 1st season in the RDS and things are already in place to make improvements.

Al_Fernz

jackbhoy wrote: »

There are plans to cover the new stand, was supposed to be done already but should def be in place for next season.
The potential refurbishment of Anglesea stand/terrace is severely limited as section of the stand is a listed/protected building and cannot be significantly altered. There is still lots of room for improvement there though, especially the supporters bar and toilets. At least lads have decent surface to play on now that schools have D'Brook to themselves, used to be in very poor state by this stage of season.

TBH I don't really care about the standard of the toilet or bars. All I want is a good view, atmosphere, a decent capacity so tickets are available and a quality pitch that encourages good rugby.

dc69

Al_Fernz wrote: »

TBH I don't really care about the standard of the toilet or bars. All I want is a good view, atmosphere, a decent capacity so tickets are available and a quality pitch that encourages good rugby.

well I want a good bar as do many and when you drink you tend to piss and the jacks are a disgrace:)

[Jackass]

Yeah I agree. General facilities are important at a game and do add to the experience. I'm not goning to moan about the facilities at RDS as it doesn't bother me a great deal, but I wont pretend I wouldn't prefer bigger and better jacks and nicer surroundings to drink in (a proper bar would be nice, and the supporters club bar is ok but I like to mix with visitors as that's half the craic of match day atmosphere)

dc69

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah I agree. General facilities are important at a game and do add to the experience. I'm not goning to moan about the facilities at RDS as it doesn't bother me a great deal, but I wont pretend I wouldn't prefer bigger and better jacks and nicer surroundings to drink in (a proper bar would be nice, and the supporters club bar is ok but I like to mix with visitors as that's half the craic of match day atmosphere)

I also think if the bar was separated and there were nicer jacks,it would encourage more familys.

zAbbo

Good feedback guys, I suggest maybe just dropping your opinions into a mail to the LeinsterSupportersClub@LeinsterRugby.ie

I think the RDS is a decent venue, and I'm sure plans are in place to upgrade the bar + toilets.

siochain

much rather stay as it is. There may be more following rugby now but they are bringing nothing to the atmosphere of a game. The crowd at landsdown for the 6 nations were shocking. OK the team were not firing and most of us me included had issues with eddie but get behind your team on the day.

Leinster matches in big venues are worse again the match V’s Perpignan a few years back and the match against Leicester was embarrassing. Perpignan had a hand full of supporters and they were all you could hear 80 minutes and fair play to them.

dc69

siochain wrote: »

much rather stay as it is. There may be more following rugby now but they are bringing nothing to the atmosphere of a game. The crowd at landsdown for the 6 nations were shocking. OK the team were not firing and most of us me included had issues with eddie but get behind your team on the day.

Leinster matches in big venues are worse again the match V’s Perpignan a few years back and the match against Leicester was embarrassing. Perpignan had a hand full of supporters and they were all you could hear 80 minutes and fair play to them.

I take it you meant croke park not lansdowne,I agree about the atmospere but thats because lots of Gaa fans got tickets and also the stadium was never made for rugby and that does affect the atmospere.Landsdown is a different animal.

Podge_irl

siochain wrote: »

Leinster matches in big venues are worse again the match V’s Perpignan a few years back and the match against Leicester was embarrassing. Perpignan had a hand full of supporters and they were all you could hear 80 minutes and fair play to them.

Leinster's core, week in week out, support is far better now though so I doubt you'd see anything similar happening.

uberwolf

A good chunk of the games this season have had large pockets of empty seats. We are still struggling to generate a good atmosphere beyond the terraces.

Only once on Saturday did the crowd really step up to the plate IMO. Only with a core of regular support can an atmosphere be generated consistently.

I'd be much more in favour of the fortress, than the money spinner. Unless you could somehow guarantee that the RDS sport was coralled into the exact same seats within Lansdowne, with the additional support outside them again - feeding off the core*.


* which is fanciful thinking at best

siochain

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leinster's core, week in week out, support is far better now though so I doubt you'd see anything similar happening.

yeah I agree thats why I say leave it as it is, move to a 50,000 seater and it would be lost.

escobar

I think the idea is to use Donnybrook and Landsdowne for the bigger matches. Landsdowne has been filled before...
Don't see how it would make economic sense to remain tenants in the RDS....

Danger_Dave

escobar wrote: »

I think the idea is to use Donnybrook and Landsdowne for the bigger matches. Landsdowne has been filled before...
Don't see how it would make economic sense to remain tenants in the RDS....

Donnybrook has a smaller capacity than the RDS so donnybrook for Leinster games is pretty much gone.


Ive got it from a source that leinster will be playing the majority of there rugby at the RDS for the Foreseeable future. Im sure Munster/some HC games will be played in Landsdowne, but not sure about HC games. Think landsdowne road will kept as the semifinal venue if we get a home one.

Zico

The fan base has grown as the team has improved. They couldn't go back to Donnybrook.

...unless they get Eddie Hekenui back at outhalf!

escobar

Danger_Dave wrote: »

Donnybrook has a smaller capacity than the RDS so donnybrook for Leinster games is pretty much gone.


Ive got it from a source that leinster will be playing the majority of there rugby at the RDS for the Foreseeable future. Im sure Munster/some HC games will be played in Landsdowne, but not sure about HC games. Think landsdowne road will kept as the semifinal venue if we get a home one.

The Donnybrook venue is being developed to be a 15000 capacity stadium. I think we've gone above that for about 4 of the 9 ML matches. Don't think it could have been predicted. Sure is a nice stadium for schoolboy rugby....Still it's good news to be in this situation...

[Jackass]

I love the RDS, my only worry about it is that we dont own it and are paying rent for it.

I know this was discussed in a topic before, but I think it's beneficial for Leinster to have our own 25,000+ seater stadium and be settled for good then.

Munster are in a fantastic position with Thomond. It's going to be a brilliant stadium, with great facilities and is perfect size, they've really run the provence well down there and have put themselves in a brilliant position.

RDS can't be developed further as A we dont own it and B the old stands are still behind the north and south stands, they just cant be knocked down, along with the Angelsea terrace as they are listed buildings.

Donnybrook apperantly isn't a big enough site, and obviously we have Lansdowne, but we cant use that all the time it's too big.

So we're left with RDS as the only option in the long term, which is fine, only we wont be enjoy the fruits of the full gate receipts like Munster will and we wont have a state of the art stadium like them either.

I don't want to moan about the RDS as I love Leinster being there, just wish we could own it and / or develop it looking at rugby here in the long run....

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

So we're left with RDS as the only option in the long term, which is fine, only we wont be enjoy the fruits of the full gate receipts like Munster will and we wont have a state of the art stadium like them either.

The IRFU own Thomond Park do they not?

[Jackass]

I'm not sure to be honest, but I'd imagine regardless the vast majority of income from the stadium would be pumped back into Munster rugby and no where else, and rightly so.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

The IRFU own Thomond Park do they not?

IRFU owns Thomond & Musgrave. I would expect that all the branches have to come up with most of the funds to develop their own grounds. The sale of 10 year tickets, naming of stands etc as well as grants from County Councils etc.

I like the RDS - I think there is a great atmosphere there and it is a good size. Wasn't one of the problem with Donnybrook (apart from capacity) the wear and tear of the pitch from high usage from school cups etc.

I seem to recall that the IRFU own some land out at Clondalkin which would be suitable for a decent stadium - maybe that is what they are planning for in the future so you might yet get a state-of-the-art stadium for Leinster.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

I like the RDS - I think there is a great atmosphere there and it is a good size. Wasn't one of the problem with Donnybrook (apart from capacity) the wear and tear of the pitch from high usage from school cups etc.

Yup, the pitch was a complete disgrace come the end of the season (I recall it being aptly described as Donnybrook Strand due to the amount of sand on the pitch). I'm quite happy that the schools have a very nice stadium outside of Leinster Rugby for their games now, and it is one of many reasons that they can't go back.

As regards the IRFU, the Leinster Branch actually own Donnybrook which is one incentive to stay there as they would get all the funds derived from it, but it really is just too small. I think the RDS has the potential to be a state of the art stadium for them, and its beneficial for the RDS too. Plus the option of the IRFU owned Lansdowne is always there.