Re: Career in Software Test or Development

Oggsman

Well lads,

a question for you all. Which is a better software career, testing or development, in terms of the following criteria:

1. Salary.
2. Stress.
3. Possibilty for Advancement.
4. Interest factor.
5. People.

I heard that testing in Ireland doesn't really need much technical knowledge i.e. you generally don't need to learn much automation tools like Silktest and test at a black-box system level. Also that testers are valued less than developers by companies. Testers are more social but maybe not as arsed about their careers. Therefore the job is less stressful. People are less cut-throat so advancement is easier.

In development, stress and pay seem higher, but competition is tougher for advancement. A fair assessment?

cronos

1. Salary.
Developer pays more in generall

2. Stress.
I would imagine that development is more stressed.

3. Possibilty for Advancement.
You can go on to be a business analyst or a project manager from a development position. However you can generally just move up the tester ranks from a tester job. It depends on what types of testing though and if you write any requirements along with testing.

However I personally think testers are undervalued. They are a very important part of the life cycle. As its their arse if the application goes live and doesnt work in the field.

4. Interest factor.
Very much personal taste, but I would think development for the varity of challanges and technologies. Prob with testing is that you have to perform the same set of tests at the end of each iteration.

5. People.
Depends more on the company more than the job function.

QUOTE]

helimachoptor

1. Salary.
Will depend on the company and what your testing Financial System test good pay. Testing webpages = not good pay

2. Stress.
Mostly developing but again depends on your role and how much responsiblilty you have.

3. Possibilty for Advancement.
For me working in test, I have also done quite a lot of Operations and PM work. Just from my own view having a CS degree developers tend to stay developers for a long time.


4. Interest factor.
Again it depends on the role, working 9-5 writing code as the chaps in my company do would lead me to kiss myself. I had a great deal of variety when I was testing which made it really enjoyable.

5. People.
I work with a great bunch of people. I dont know the developers that well though.

Again it depends, for me I use SQL/UNIX/Java/Python. I am also extremely arsed about my career!

AARRRGH

Oggsman wrote: »

1. Salary.

Long term you'll earn more in development.

However, testing is full of morons, so if you've any cop on you'll advance fast.

I work in software testing.

Oggsman wrote: »

2. Stress.

I used to be a developer. It's more stressful than testing.

I don't consider testing to be a stressful job.

Oggsman wrote: »

3. Possibilty for Advancement.

If you've any cop on you can go far in testing.

It does kind of depend on the company though.

Where I work I spend a lot of time doing business analyst and product management work. This is mainly due to their being a lot of weak business analysts/product managers where I work.

I could jump to one of these areas if I wanted to.

With development you get tunnel vision so I don't think it's a good area to go into if you want to have broad career options.

Oggsman wrote: »

4. Interest factor.

Development is more interesting than testing.

Neither are particularly exciting though.

I find in testing you get to have more of a laugh as the people are more normal.

Oggsman wrote: »

5. People.

There are a lot of really weird, nasty people in development. You know, people who hate humans so they chose a totally unsociable job like development. I also know a couple of sound developers.

Testers are generally quite normal.

The most unpleasant people I've ever met have been developers, and I've met a lot more non-developers than developers!

In development I would consider having people skills to be a major advantage when it comes to career progression.

BostonB

Oggsman wrote: »

a question for you all. Which is a better software career, testing or development,....

I would consider testing as a stepping stone to development. Not as an alternative career tbh. If you can avoid testing you should. IMO. Of course to do well at the higher levels of testing you are basically are doing development, anyway. Just getting paid less, and its not as interesting work. Most of the other issues you seem to be worried about are more dependant on the company and people, than a specific career path.

Jugs82

I would consider testing as a stepping stone to development. Not as an alternative career tbh. If you can avoid testing you should.

I would have to strongly disagree - there is quiet a large vibrant European Testing Community and interest groups in most countries. I can assure you that the 1000's of testers involved do not view their profession as a stepping stone

In Ireland, there is Softtest while there are numerous annual European Conferences such as EuroSTAR which ironically enough is organised by a Galway company

I also agree with a previous poster that having a bit of cop on goes a long way in Testing and as for advancement, there are numerous opprotunities

Eoin

Jugs82 wrote: »

I would have to strongly disagree - there is quiet a large vibrant European Testing Community and interest groups in most countries. I can assure you that the 1000's of testers involved do not view

I agree very much with this. Testers are not shaved monkeys who just press whatever buttons the developers say they should and write down the results.

As dublindude said, developers can be very tunnel minded, and they often have no idea how a normal user will use a system. Testers are generally more tuned in to the general usability of a system. As such, many companies will have testers input into the design of a system.

run_Forrest_run

1. Salary.
Probably better salary for developer but really you have to be up to the grade in order to get decent salary, that simply rules applies across the board!

2. Stress.
Well I am a developer and I've dealt with plenty of stress in the past. These days I learn to handle the stress and not let it beat me down as much. I know some testers who do get stressed but most of them where I work and fairly stress free and they don't really care too much :mad:

3. Possibilty for Advancement.
Again this is hard to say. There are possibilities in development in areas like architecture and design and for test there are opportunities in areas like QA, Process, Validation etc.
It really depends on the person and how well they are to adapt.

4. Interest factor.
Depends on what interests you! If you are interested in getting your hands dirty (virtually of course!) and building/fixing things and designing software then development could be for you.
If you like to annoy people and act like a pain in the backside then a career in software test is for you

5. People.
Some interesting & dull people in both disciplines. You can't really narrow it down based on one's role.

MIN2511

It seems testing is the easier(i know it's not easy) in this equation.

My 2c; are you technical? If you are then Developer and if not Tester, what background do you have(Education, Experience), where do you see yourself in a few years? Some people would go the Developers' route if they don't have pressuring responsibilities(family e.t.c) and make **** loads of money and when they do settle down they go the Testing route...

BostonB

Jugs82 wrote: »

I would have to strongly disagree - there is quiet a large vibrant European Testing Community and interest groups in most countries. I can assure you that the 1000's of testers involved do not view their profession as a stepping stone...

I'm sure they don't. But that doesn't change that fact that by the time your at the level, of writing automated regression and functional testing scripts, (or designing the system) you'd be earning more as a developer. Its not a vocation. Even if you are managing a testing department, its likely you'd earn more if you move into project managment. Most people in IT have spent sometime testing, at all levels. Its good perhaps even essential to have some testing experience. I would say theres a far higher burn out in testing, than there is development.

Ye are talking about testing like its independent of the development process. I would say it part of it. Anywhere I've worked its been natural progression for people to more out of testing into other development roles. Testers have the same tunnel vision that developers have. The only way to see how users use a system is to get users to use it. Usability testing etc.

If people prefer testing and find thats where they want to be then great. I wouldn't say thats the majority of people working in testing though. Not everyone wants to stay in Development either. Some do. Horses for courses.

BostonB

MIN2511 wrote: »

It seems testing is the easier(i know it's not easy) in this equation.

My 2c; are you technical? If you are then Developer and if not Tester, what background do you have(Education, Experience), where do you see yourself in a few years? Some people would go the Developers' route if they don't have pressuring responsibilities(family e.t.c) and make **** loads of money and when they do settle down they go the Testing route...

That makes no sense to me. What has a family and settling down got to do with it?

MIN2511

Developers i know complain about how they cant handle their jobs because of families..
A few end up quitting within a few months due to stress levels

BostonB

MIN2511 wrote: »

Developers i know complain about how they cant handle their jobs because of families..
A few end up quitting within a few months due to stress levels

I would say that down to a specific companies poor management than a difference between testing and development. YMMV.

newestUser

Ymmv?

Zulu

First off I'm a test manager.

Oggsman wrote: »

1. Salary.

Depends, but if you're a good tester, you'll earn more contracting in test than development.

2. Stress.

Test time lines always get cut, so I believe it's more stressful. You've to execute your work effort, generally in half the time you accounted for, and senior management are, at that point, very nervous.

3. Possibilty for Advancement.

Like anywhere else - all depends on you. You have a better over-all understanding of anything developed, so that can work in your favour. If you keep you're profile high, you can be seen to be working very hard at high levels and get good recognition. And pulling a crap project out of the fire can do wonders for your career path.

4. Interest factor.

Ranges from the extremely tedious (test preparation) to fascinating (non-functional/tech test)

5. People.

Your the diplomat. You've to handle the fragile ego's of development, and reassure management of the risks. Always fun.

I heard that testing in Ireland doesn't really need much technical knowledge i.e. you generally don't need to learn much automation tools like Silktest and test at a black-box system level. ...

Testing is often misunderstood, and doesn't refer to white box/unit testing - thats for development, but its a mistake to believe that the knowledge is in automation. Automation can only account for 40-60% of test cases, and is expensive. A good functional tester is hard to come across.

In development, stress and pay seem higher, but competition is tougher for advancement. A fair assessment?

I don't think so - but thats just my experience/opinion

dazberry

BostonB wrote: »

I would say that down to a specific companies poor management than a difference between testing and development. YMMV.

Agreed. I've worked under various different pressures and stresses over the last 14 years, and never felt stressed until my current job - and when I say stressed - I mean serious work place head melting stress. Most of my experience was in IT related companies - this is a finance company - huge mistake on my part - they're a joke.

YMMV = your mileage may vary

D.

Zulu

BostonB wrote: »

I'm sure they don't. But that doesn't change that fact that by the time your at the level, of writing automated regression and functional testing scripts, (or designing the system) you'd be earning more as a developer

What are you talking about? They are 3 entirely different things! That's like comparing a structural engineer, an architect and a site engineer! Madness.
Automated testing is 1 skill.
Regression testing is a type of testing.
Functional testing is another type of testing.

Some testers will never become automated testers.
Testers don't design systems.

Even if you are managing a testing department, its likely you'd earn more if you move into project managment.

Possibly true, but the same is true of a development manager. PM's just tend to get more over all.

Most people in IT have spent sometime testing, at all levels.

That's true unfortunatly. Thankfully today, people see the need for real testers, (not someone pretending to be one). Attitudes are changing.

I would say theres a far higher burn out in testing, than there is development.

I would agree, I believe stress is higher.

Anywhere I've worked its been natural progression for people to more out of testing into other development roles.

Only where developers were lumped into test roles.

BostonB

Zulu wrote: »

What are you talking about? They are 3 entirely different things! That's like comparing a structural engineer, an architect and a site engineer! Madness.
Automated testing is 1 skill.
Regression testing is a type of testing.
Functional testing is another type of testing.

I was only making a general point that experience is worth more per year in development. That my experience. I wasn't getting into the nitty gritty of testing.

Zulu wrote: »

Some testers will never become automated testers.
Testers don't design systems.

I've never seen it myself. But I was referring to Eoins comment.

eoin_s wrote: »

...As such, many companies will have testers input into the design of a system.

Zulu wrote: »

...Only where developers were lumped into test roles...

I've seen lots of people with no prior development experience, start in testing and that experience, has made them realise they want to get into development. I'm sure its different everywhere. Thats just what I've seen.

Eoin

BostonB wrote: »

I've never seen it myself. But I was referring to Eoins comment.

Testers are usually so much closer to the end user than the developer, so they can have a much better grasp of the usability (or not) of a system.

They may not be designing the classes and methods, but often have input into the workflow / layout / process etc of a piece of functionality.

BostonB

I've never seen it at the design stage like you said. I've only ever seen it in small informal development teams, and in a very limited way. In my experience in larger more process driven places there's usually a team of business analysts and usability experts feeding this back into the design stages. Testing being in another country, from the main design/development centers. I haven't had the experience you guys have had of it being so formal a process and integrated into design and development.

The Hill Billy

OP - I've been an independent Test Manager/Consultant for some 10 years now. Prior to that I worked as a permy developer, tester, business/data analyst. It's something I kind of fell into instead of selected as a career choice.

But I've risen through the ranks, made pots of cash, travelled all over Europe, the Middle East & the US on engagements & met some very interesting people along the way. I've also had to work with some real fcukwits too, but I think that's common in all walks of life.

You could do a lot worse than choosing testing as a career. But in order to make life interesting - you should push yourself towards getting into test analysis - not just following scripts & key punching.

Regarding the practicalities of life in testing - Zulu's posts above are spot on. (Zulu - Is it something about test management that led us to have similar thoughts on alternative home-based careers? )




Slightly off topic - There seems to be an inordinate amount of testers with nothing better to do than post on boards. Get back to work you lazy feckers!

Zulu

it's the usual story, you know the one: test prep is completed, execution has been delayed two weeks now, and the developers still aren't finished adding all the bugs!!

The Hill Billy

Zulu wrote: »

the developers still aren't finished adding all the bugs!!

Ahh... Developers & their "undocumented features" - bless 'em!