Sunpower evacuated tubes

yellabelly

I was just wondering if anyone had experience with these tubes
http://www.sunpower.ie/products.asp
How do they compare to other manufacturers for cost/performance/reliability?

AckwelFoley

If their Product is as poor of their use of the English language id avoid it.

I also cant seem to find if their solar tubes or their product is registered with SEI.

yellabelly

Their product is tested to EN 12975 and has been submitted to Fraunhofer Solar Test Centre. http://www.sunpower-solar.com/page/cs3.html

Very strange that it doesn't appear on the SEI list dated 1/4/08, especially since they have an Irish supplier at sunpower.ie.

AckwelFoley

yellabelly wrote: »

Their product is tested to EN 12975 and has been submitted to Fraunhofer Solar Test Centre. http://www.sunpower-solar.com/page/cs3.html

Very strange that it doesn't appear on the SEI list dated 1/4/08, especially since they have an Irish supplier at sunpower.ie.

Neither the supplier nor the product is regd with SEI, so in effect, the product is not suitable for installation to Irish homes and will not be sufficent to allow potential customers to apply for a grant or be in compliance with future legislation

sinnerboy

not one solar panel appears on the SEI HARP performance data base Not one heat pump either

mexican stand off SEI "are awaiting" suppliers to contact them suppliers don't seem interested . I e mailed a about half dozen suppliers to ask when they might get around to this . the only one who bothered to respond did not seem aware of the SEI "arrangement"

So consumers - you are on your own .

For a guide to solar panel performance look here

http://www.estif.org/solarkeymark/

For a guide to heat pump performance look here
http://www.ntb.ch/3896.html

yellabelly

I have discovered that www.sunpower.ie are not connected to www.sunpower-solar.com.

Sunpower.ie say they are supplied by Jiangsu Sunrain Solar Energy company http://en.sunrain.com/. They do have a tube registered on the SEI product list.

ircoha

yellabelly wrote: »

I have discovered that www.sunpower.ie are not connected to www.sunpower-solar.com.

Sunpower.ie say they are supplied by Jiangsu Sunrain Solar Energy company http://en.sunrain.com/. They do have a tube registered on the SEI product list.

Me thinks the OP has a vested interest in promoting sunpower

yellabelly

ircoha wrote: »

Me thinks the OP has a vested interest in promoting sunpower

On the contrary, I'm a potential purchaser trying to find my way through the maze of products out there. I'm interested in finding a good value reliable product. There seems to be a lot of unjustified overpricing in the market that I'm trying to avoid.

AckwelFoley

Well, there is the problem.

PPl want cheap.. however are unwilling then to yfor the backup and support and service that comes with reputible companies.

Take a 36 tube evac tube system complete with tank 300l and all req fittings. The price you will pay from Homevalue Hardware stores with a system supplied by Enegymaster.ie will be in the region of €3895 (the tank alone is worth €1400)

Not the cheapest, far from the most expensive, but you are paying for peace of mind and a back up service.

Iknow personally if was buying a heat pump i would have no problems paying extra for the serivce and reputatin. Essentially when i was a purchaser for a homevalue hardware store - i went with service.. of course price is important but not the entire deciding factor

sinnerboy

yellabelly wrote: »

I have discovered that www.sunpower.ie are not connected to www.sunpower-solar.com.

Sunpower.ie say they are supplied by Jiangsu Sunrain Solar Energy company http://en.sunrain.com/. They do have a tube registered on the SEI product list.

would you mind posting a link to that list

AckwelFoley

sinnerboy wrote: »

would you mind posting a link to that list

The company needs to be reg'd too

ircoha

yellabelly wrote: »

On the contrary, I'm a potential purchaser trying to find my way through the maze of products out there. I'm interested in finding a good value reliable product. There seems to be a lot of unjustified overpricing in the market that I'm trying to avoid.

Lets have the detail then to substantiate this statement:
u have focussed the entire discussion thus far on one sole product and have further chosen to add un-necessary clarification.

yellabelly

ircoha wrote: »

Lets have the detail then to substantiate this statement:
u have focussed the entire discussion thus far on one sole product and have further chosen to add un-necessary clarification.

Quotes I have received for a job have varied by a factor of 2.
I agree that it is a balancing act and price isn't the sole motivation when making a choice. I do wonder how much risk there is with these tube products. I would probably apply a different criteria if I was purchasing a heat pump. Do some companies offer real benefits like extended guarantees?

I have mentioned products from 2 different companies, Changzhou Sunpower and Jiangsu Sunrain. I have read that some European companies rebrand tubes from China which will certainly increase the cost. Maybe they do add backup service and reputation into the mix. I've also come across Navitron that seem to be an honest, low-cost supplier mainly targeted at DIYers.

The link to the SEI list for registered products is here :- http://www.sei.ie/getFile.asp?FC_ID=3551&docID=761

muffler

Im not happy with the idea of anyone starting a thread and naming a specific company as it is in breach of the charter. However we are into a new era with new products and companies emerging every week and it is only natural for people to ask questions about these products and firms. In this instance the OP is a registered user here for well over 4 years and it is normally the the guy with a couple of posts only that we take more interest in when he mentions a particular product or firm.

The charter is there for a reason and at times we allow threads and debates to flow as we consider the points to be useful and beneficial to the wider community here even if some of the posts may contravene the charter.

ircoha was correct in raising the point of any association with the named company but unfortunately this will be an ongoing problem for reasons mentioned above. We will have to treat each case on its own merits and while it will be difficult for any of the mods here to both monitor and moderate (if necessary) every post in every thread we will do our best to accommodate everyone.

Myself and smashey have "sorta" agreed that Mellor (AKA The Enforcer ) would "kinda" look after this sub forum (we made him volunteer for it ) so I will leave it to him to moderate this thread if he deems it necessary.

On a more general note I think it only fair that in cases like this we would require that the users concerned state if they have any affiliation to a named company/product. Just be careful though because if the answer is no and we subsequently discover that there is a connection then a permanent ban will be invoked.

yellabelly

Point taken about mentioning a company name - I am new to this particular forum and I have now read the charter. In fact doesn't the mention of a company name in any thread contravene the charter?

I have tried to make it clear that I have absolutely no connection to any of these companies. I am merely looking for independent advice. I am in the middle of building an extension and need to quickly decide on a system. Perhaps ircoha could have pointed me to the charter instead of making accusations.

muffler

yellabelly wrote: »

In fact doesn't the mention of a company name in any thread contravene the charter?

Yes. But read my post above.

yellabelly wrote: »

Perhaps ircoha could have pointed me to the charter instead of making accusations.

Perhaps he should have but its up to the users here to read the charter. As I said you are around long enough so you should know that different forums have different charters. In any event if anyone here is not happy with the content of someone elses posts they should report it or PM a mod.

We will leave it at that.

AckwelFoley

Well the bottom line of all this in addition to what was said by the staff is...

OP i would strongly advise you to make sure the company can supply you with an sei reg product, if they cant you get no grant.

In addition to that, this is a big investment, i would suggest and advise you to buy from a well established company, in ireland that has a back up service and warranty..

who do you go to if you have a problem with this product? Will they send out an engineer if the installation is done poorly?

Let me give you a senario. You go to Joe Bloggs Hardware store in your local town, they provide you with a product and a service, and in many cxases recommend you an installer. If there is a problem with the product you can go back to the hardware and in turn the hardware goes to their supplier, which in most cases will be a reputable and recognised dealer... on the other hand if you buy from the internet its likely you are buying from a guy that is importing a product.. driving around oin a van, knows little about the product and will be hard to get if you need him to come back.. and to be honest is likely not to be around in a year or so when all the chancers are weeded out of the market.

I just would advise people to be careful. Yes ive a vested interest in this subject. I work in the industry of renewable energy sales and i want to see that the market is not given a bad reputation by people trying to make a quick buck and disappear. It has already happened to some degree in all areas of the woodpellet market and it has caused us reputable suppliers difficulty in trying to sort out the mess.

Ive seen the profit marhin that is made by the company that i work for and it is actually ot great, for the simple reason that, we have to pay for system designers, engineers and a team of comissioners and service men, on top of administration and sales staff.. transport etc...

There is great profit to be made if all of the above mentioned is taken oout of the loop.. but what are you the customer left with then? The market is flooded with imports from Asia, and while alot of the products made there are fine - There is a huge variation in quality comming in from there, and a regular Joe soap customer is unlikely to know the difference. Generally the tubes are pretty generic and source country is not a problem, however.. the control unit and pump station and manifold are the areas that are most likely to give trouble and in this circumstance, source market is more important, the companies that have been in the market for a while and have tried and tested the product before releasing onto the market.

We are at the moment getting into the wind energy market for 2008 and there is alot of consumer interest out there, we have sourced a supplier and product, but we are testing this product for the last few months and will continue to do with alot of expence to ourselves, before wo ever consider releasing it onto the market here.

It would be nice and easy for us to go to china and get a few 3kw wind turbines and flood the market with them, do no testing and make a quick profit after.. but if we did that, its likely that the product would be junk and we would get endless amounts of hassle trying to sort out the mess we created.. on top of that it would give the wind energy market a bad name, which has already happened because of big British chain stores in ireland supplying wind turbines onto the market here without the service.

People dont seem to understand that wind turbines are not suitable for all sites, we've seen a few sites where in one particular case a Construction company paid a company 15,000 euro to install a wind turbine on their site. Little did the construction company know that on a windy day they wouldnt get the turbine to maje one revolution because of the positioning of the turbine.
Its not as simpple as wanting a turbine, buying one and sticking it up on the site, there are many factors involved.

Sorry for the long post.. in 2 years this is the lngest post ive ever bothered my arse in making, but i made a big decision to persue Renewable energy sales, i left my job i was in for 10 years, simply because i wanted a new career that focused more on this line of work. It excites me, i think there is a great oppertunity now for us here in Ireland to cut our dependancy on fossil fuels and there is a momentum building up in favour of the renewable products.

Im not trying to be doom and gloom on the suppliers issue, there are many large and small independant suppliers that are genuine and are making the inital investment to become reputable suppliers in the market. I think people should search for these and make a decision on which company they want to deal with, you probable in the majroity pay 10% more for the product you buy, but you have to understand the reasons for the higher price and what you pay for.

Caviet emptor

yellabelly

snyper, thanks for your helpful reply. I am definitely going down the registered product/installer route. I have asked fitters who have been locally recommended to quote for supply and fit. It is part of my research to ask what equipment they use.
I haven't paid so much attention to the ancillary parts because I don't really know what to look out for. e.g. variable speed pump.